Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #22

[Runningforthewind]

Does anyone else find the July 17th sighting to be iffy?

"On July 17, 2019, at approximately 11:40 p.m., a witness was driving westbound on Alaska Highway and pulled off the road into a pullout to take a nap. This was located approximately 30 minutes west from Haines Junction Petro Canada and 2 hours 10 minutes west of Whitehorse. Within 5 minutes of being parked, a truck with camper drove past him and stopped about 50 yards ahead. An unknown male got out of the passenger side of the truck holding a long gun. The male walked towards the tree line and started moving towards the witness in a tactical or hunting stance. The truck also started driving slowly towards the witness. The witness drove away from the armed male and drove past the truck. The driver covered his face with his hand and the witness was not able to see the driver’s face. [Although the witness described the truck as being a white GMC, the time, location and male descriptions fit McLeod and Schmegelsky. The witness made the report to police on July 21, 2019." RCMP in British Columbia - Overview of Fort Nelson and Dease Lake Homicide Investigation

The only thing that matches is that it had a possible camper. Only one of the two got out of the vehicle, but the witness couldn't identify either of the two as being Kam or Bryer. They couldn't even tell an approximate height for the driver.

Then there is the description of the truck. I did a google search on white GMC truck, and found a truck that was similar to the description (and had similar front end) for comparison. He was specific on the make. But compare the two pictures I attached. One of a 1993 White GMC truck (estimate year) and Kam's truck.

Also, reporting it 4 days after the fact, after Kam's truck was located burnt, and after another murder. It seems rather convenient.

I'm not saying this could or couldn't be them, but there is enough doubt, that this would have been ripped apart in a trial. It shouldn't have been put forth as fact. JMO.

 

[LDS1]

Yes it seems like they had money to pay for items at the store. Just so they wouldn't be caught stealing small items. But when they left home on July 12 they supposedly had a "fair amount of money on them"
I am assuming they had both been paid by Wal-Mart on that day.
JMO

 

[NJSleuth91]

Just going by that logic....

They killed 13 people instead of 3 during their murder spree. There's no evidence that they did kill 10 additional people. But we also can't say for sure that they didn't. So to definitely state "they killed three people" is not correct. We do not know.

Defending the reputation of killers over the number of people they killed is pointless, don’t you think, considering the atrocities we now know they were responsible for? If they never killed 10 additional people, that does not elevate their moral compass one iota considering the crimes they did commit, without remorse.

****
But really...in the report it didn't say anything about them shoplifting. I'm pretty sure the store had additional security footage besides the footage that was released to the public. If they had shoplifted it would have been on camera, and the report would have mentioned it. Therefore they almost certainly didn't.

 

[LoisLane]

Does anyone else find the July 17th sighting to be iffy?

"On July 17, 2019, at approximately 11:40 p.m., a witness was driving westbound on Alaska Highway and pulled off the road into a pullout to take a nap. This was located approximately 30 minutes west from Haines Junction Petro Canada and 2 hours 10 minutes west of Whitehorse. Within 5 minutes of being parked, a truck with camper drove past him and stopped about 50 yards ahead. An unknown male got out of the passenger side of the truck holding a long gun. The male walked towards the tree line and started moving towards the witness in a tactical or hunting stance. The truck also started driving slowly towards the witness. The witness drove away from the armed male and drove past the truck. The driver covered his face with his hand and the witness was not able to see the driver’s face. [Although the witness described the truck as being a white GMC, the time, location and male descriptions fit McLeod and Schmegelsky. The witness made the report to police on July 21, 2019." RCMP in British Columbia - Overview of Fort Nelson and Dease Lake Homicide Investigation

The only thing that matches is that it had a possible camper. Only one of the two got out of the vehicle, but the witness couldn't identify either of the two as being Kam or Bryer. They couldn't even tell an approximate height for the driver.

Then there is the description of the truck. I did a google search on white GMC truck, and found a truck that was similar to the description (and had similar front end) for comparison. He was specific on the make. But compare the two pictures I attached. One of a 1993 White GMC truck (estimate year) and Kam's truck.

Also, reporting it 4 days after the fact, after Kam's truck was located burnt, and after another murder. It seems rather convenient.

I'm not saying this could or couldn't be them, but there is enough doubt, that this would have been ripped apart in a trial. It shouldn't have been put forth as fact. JMO.

View attachment 209031

I wonder too if this sighting would be admissible in court. It’s too bad the witness who was heading westbound didn’t stop at the Petro (open 24 hours and 30 KM’s away) immediately after. I wonder if he was being followed after he fled the potential confrontation. I am curious if the witness ended up stopping shortly after to resume a rest stop or where he ended up going directly after. If he wasn’t being followed he could have reported it right away at the Petro.

Is it possible there is more to demonstrate this sighting was confirmed? Like maybe cameras at the Petro to show the Hwy traffic within those hours? Something had to give right?

 

[LoisLane]

[QUOTE="NJSleuth91, post: 15489359,

****
But really...in the report it didn't say anything about them shoplifting. I'm pretty sure the store had additional security footage besides the footage that was released to the public. If they had shoplifted it would have been on camera, and the report would have mentioned it. Therefore they almost certainly didn't.[/QUOTE]

SBM.
Did they state the Meadowlake COOP in the report at all? IIRC it’s not included. But obviously we saw the video to show they were there. IMO.. this needed to be included and I am surprised it wasn’t.

 

[Runningforthewind]

I wonder too if this sighting would be admissible in court.

They could have called them as a witness but the defence would be able to put enough doubt in the sighting I doubt they would.

 

[Grouper]

@LoisLane


RCMP in British Columbia - Overview of Fort Nelson and Dease Lake Homicide Investigation

I’ve attached a screenshot from the report wherein they do mention Meadow Lake, though not specifically the co-op. While there is absolutely zero mention of Cold Lake.

Not sure what all those omissions are about, but it seems like RCMP are trying not to draw (or actively divert) attention from certain aspects of the case. Idk.

EDIT: sorry the quote got totally messed up for some reason.

 

[LoisLane]

@LoisLane


RCMP in British Columbia - Overview of Fort Nelson and Dease Lake Homicide Investigation

I’ve attached a screenshot from the report wherein they do mention Meadow Lake, though not specifically the co-op. While there is absolutely zero mention of Cold Lake.

Not sure what all those omissions are about, but it seems like RCMP are trying not to draw (or actively divert) attention from certain aspects of the case. Idk.

EDIT: sorry the quote got totally messed up for some reason.

Thanks for this. Yes, they mention Meadow Lake for gas but not the COOP from where the surveillance video came from. There doesn’t appear to be a gas station at that location. I just thought/expected the known stops that were issued to the public during the search would be included. I don’t understand why they would leave them out. Maybe because they don’t want us sorting though timelines?

 

[LoisLane]

They could have called them as a witness but the defence would be able to put enough doubt in the sighting I doubt they would.

Or it wouldn’t have made it past the preliminary or discovery because it could be challenged so easily. Which brings me back to wondering if they had something to corroborate the story and they just didn’t include that in the report.

 

[NJSleuth91]

Or it wouldn’t have made it past the preliminary or discovery because it could be challenged so easily.

If they had gone on trial (TBH I feel like they would have taken a plea deal?) they wouldn't have even needed the July 17th attempt to prove they committed the three murders. They literally had video evidence of them confessing as well as tons of other evidence.

I think they put it in the report to be like "yeah so, turns out they were literally hunting people...hey, y'all wanted details, y'all got them...."

 

[LoisLane]

If they had gone on trial (TBH I feel like they would have taken a plea deal?) they wouldn't have even needed the July 17th attempt to prove they committed the three murders. They literally had video evidence of them confessing as well as tons of other evidence.

I think they put it in the report to be like "yeah so, turns out they were literally hunting people...hey, y'all wanted details, y'all got them...."

Unless they were caught before the chance of recording videos. Or the RAV was no where near them and burnt to a crisp when they were apprehended. It could have played out in different ways. They could have plead guilty or dragged it out and put their victims through more with replaying events in court.

 

[NJSleuth91]

Unless they were caught before the chance of recording videos. Or the RAV was no where near them and burnt to a crisp when they were apprehended. It could have played out in different ways. They could have plead guilty or dragged it out and put their victims through more with replaying events in court.

It's very uncommon for these types of killers to pretend they didn't do it though. If there is a trial it comes down to an insanity plea thing. IDK though, I imagine these guys would kind of be like Dylann Roof in that regard (he represented himself in court because he disagreed with the diagnoses he was given in his psychological evaluation and his lawyer was planning to use it in the trial). Like...would the Columbine shooters have tried to plead not guilty, do you think, had they been captured alive? I just can't see it happening.

But TBH I also can't imagine a situation where it actually got as far as a trial. I don't think prison was in their plans in any way. I think in every scenario, they would have made sure they killed themselves one way or another before the police got to them.

 

[MistyWaters]

Yes it seems like they had money to pay for items at the store. Just so they wouldn't be caught stealing small items. But when they left home on July 12 they supposedly had a "fair amount of money on them"
I am assuming they had both been paid by Wal-Mart on that day.
JMO

They stole Prof Dyck’s money as well.

“RCMP determined that the two suspects returned to B.C. days after killing Deese and Fowler, due to car trouble and came across Dyck, who was on an outdoor research trip. The suspects then burned their vehicle to hide evidence, before stealing Dyck’s car, money and other personal items.”
Suspects confessed to B.C. murders in videos, expressed no remorse

 

[MistyWaters]

They could have called them as a witness but the defence would be able to put enough doubt in the sighting I doubt they would.

I’m quite certain the July 17th incident wouldn’t be admissible in court as it doesn’t prove B&K committed the murders of the three victims. But the matching and distinctive shell casings would’ve cooked their goose anyway IMO.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

The shoplifting video sort of hints they have done that before. They worked together rather efficiently.

I was one who thought they might've shoplifted as well.

I mentioned way back in the thread when we were discussing this that I think they would've bought items along with stealing so to not be suspicious to walk around and not buy anything. Who knows though!

 

[NJSleuth91]

Yeah it's one thing to say "I think they shoplifted" (I personally disagree since there's no evidence to support it and the police don't seem to think they did...but hey, it's your opinion)...quite another to refer to it as a "shoplifting video" as in "that video definitely 100% shows them shoplifting."

I feel like I want to make a joke where Clippy from Microsoft Office is like "It looks like you're trying to make an assertion without evidence. Would you like help with that?" but my requisite 5mg melatonin has kicked in so I'm too tired to think of a punchline LOL.

 

[LoisLane]

It's very uncommon for these types of killers to pretend they didn't do it though. If there is a trial it comes down to an insanity plea thing. IDK though, I imagine these guys would kind of be like Dylann Roof in that regard (he represented himself in court because he disagreed with the diagnoses he was given in his psychological evaluation and his lawyer was planning to use it in the trial). Like...would the Columbine shooters have tried to plead not guilty, do you think, had they been captured alive? I just can't see it happening.

But TBH I also can't imagine a situation where it actually got as far as a trial. I don't think prison was in their plans in any way. I think in every scenario, they would have made sure they killed themselves one way or another before the police got to them.

I can’t come up with any similar cases to compare to this. In Canada we recently had a serial killer plead guilty (Bruce McArthur) we have the duo killers in Ontario who went to trial and found guilty (Millard and Smich), there are others but not parallel to KM and BS that I’m aware of.

They could have had their time in court tho FWIW.

 

[NJSleuth91]

I can’t come up with any similar cases to compare to this. In Canada we recently had a serial killer plead guilty (Bruce McArthur) we have the duo killers in Ontario who went to trial and found guilty (Millard and Smich), there are others but not parallel to KM and BS that I’m aware of.

They could have had their time in court tho FWIW.

Yeah that's the weird thing about this case, it really isn't like any other case. I see them as being more psychologically similar to other teenage mass shooters than anything else, though.

But TBH I really can't imagine them ever being captured alive in the first place. I think a) suicide was kind of the whole point of the thing, b) they were completely aware how badly they would have fared in prison, and that they would never see each other again.

 

[LoisLane]

Yeah it's one thing to say "I think they shoplifted" (I personally disagree since there's no evidence to support it and the police don't seem to think they did...but hey, it's your opinion)...quite another to refer to it as a "shoplifting video" as in "that video definitely 100% shows them shoplifting."

I feel like I want to make a joke where Clippy from Microsoft Office is like "It looks like you're trying to make an assertion without evidence. Would you like help with that?" but my requisite 5mg melatonin has kicked in so I'm too tired to think of a punchline LOL.

Well we don’t know if they did or did not lift anything. We were told in MSM that they purchased at this store but never learned what they bought or if they stole anything because it was never confirmed. So to say the police “don't seem to think they did” is reaching because they never confirmed their activity (at this store specifically) that took place. They may have decided to exclude the items purchased (and possibly stolen too) because it would cause speculation or they were unable to recover items associated to the store.

I guess because this report isn’t typical for investigations (being relayed to the public) they don’t have to be accountable for what is included/excluded in regards to existing public knowledge and I guess accuracy won’t have a place either. IMO.

 

[LoisLane]

I was one who thought they might've shoplifted as well.

I mentioned way back in the thread when we were discussing this that I think they would've bought items along with stealing so to not be suspicious to walk around and not buy anything. Who knows though!

It a typical shoplifting MO. I am with you on this one.

If they weren’t caught upon exiting as shoplifters and video can’t confirm the theft then it’s a success on the shoplifters part. I wonder what the protocol is for shoplifting at this store and if they had someone watching them on the cams in real time. Pretty small store and town so maybe not but they do have the ceiling cams in place.