CANADA - Lucas Fowler & Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #3

[Sillybilly]

Is that for sure true in this jurisdiction? (That is not true in the state I live in, but I don't know Canadian law.)

jmo

Horse's mouth ... Criminal Code of Canada, Sections 229 through 231:

Murder, Manslaughter and Infanticide
Marginal note:Murder

229 Culpable homicide is murder

• (a) where the person who causes the death of a human being
  
  • (i) means to cause his death, or
    
    
  • (ii) means to cause him bodily harm that he knows is likely to cause his death, and is reckless whether death ensues or not;
    
• (b) where a person, meaning to cause death to a human being or meaning to cause him bodily harm that he knows is likely to cause his death, and being reckless whether death ensues or not, by accident or mistake causes death to another human being, notwithstanding that he does not mean to cause death or bodily harm to that human being; or
  
  
• (c) where a person, for an unlawful object, does anything that he knows or ought to know is likely to cause death, and thereby causes death to a human being, notwithstanding that he desires to effect his object without causing death or bodily harm to any human being.
  

• R.S., c. C-34, s. 212

Marginal note:Murder in commission of offences

230 Culpable homicide is murder where a person causes the death of a human being while committing or attempting to commit high treason or treason or an offence mentioned in section 52 (sabotage), 75 (piratical acts), 76 (hijacking an aircraft), 144 or subsection 145(1) or sections 146 to 148 (escape or rescue from prison or lawful custody), section 270 (assaulting a peace officer), section 271 (sexual assault), 272 (sexual assault with a weapon, threats to a third party or causing bodily harm), 273 (aggravated sexual assault), 279 (kidnapping and forcible confinement), 279.1 (hostage taking), 343 (robbery), 348 (breaking and entering) or 433 or 434 (arson), whether or not the person means to cause death to any human being and whether or not he knows that death is likely to be caused to any human being, if

• (a) he means to cause bodily harm for the purpose of
  
  • (i) facilitating the commission of the offence, or
    
    
  • (ii) facilitating his flight after committing or attempting to commit the offence,
    
  and the death ensues from the bodily harm;
  
  
• (b) he administers a stupefying or overpowering thing for a purpose mentioned in paragraph (a), and the death ensues therefrom; or
  
  
• (c) he wilfully stops, by any means, the breath of a human being for a purpose mentioned in paragraph (a), and the death ensues therefrom.
  
  
• (d) [Repealed, 1991, c. 4, s. 1]
  

• R.S., 1985, c. C-46, s. 230
• R.S., 1985, c. 27 (1st Supp.), s. 40
• 1991, c. 4, s. 1

Marginal note:Classification of murder

• 231 (1) Murder is first degree murder or second degree murder.
  
  
• Marginal notelanned and deliberate murder
  
  (2) Murder is first degree murder when it is planned and deliberate.
  
  
• Marginal note:Contracted murder
  
  (3) Without limiting the generality of subsection (2), murder is planned and deliberate when it is committed pursuant to an arrangement under which money or anything of value passes or is intended to pass from one person to another, or is promised by one person to another, as consideration for that other’s causing or assisting in causing the death of anyone or counselling another person to do any act causing or assisting in causing that death.
  
  
• Marginal note:Murder of peace officer, etc.
  
  (4) Irrespective of whether a murder is planned and deliberate on the part of any person, murder is first degree murder when the victim is
  
  • (a) a police officer, police constable, constable, sheriff, deputy sheriff, sheriff’s officer or other person employed for the preservation and maintenance of the public peace, acting in the course of his duties;
    
    
  • (b) a warden, deputy warden, instructor, keeper, jailer, guard or other officer or a permanent employee of a prison, acting in the course of his duties; or
    
    
  • (c) a person working in a prison with the permission of the prison authorities and acting in the course of his work therein.
    
• Marginal note:Hijacking, sexual assault or kidnapping
  
  (5) Irrespective of whether a murder is planned and deliberate on the part of any person, murder is first degree murder in respect of a person when the death is caused by that person while committing or attempting to commit an offence under one of the following sections:
  
  • (a) section 76 (hijacking an aircraft);
    
    
  • (b) section 271 (sexual assault);
    
    
  • (c) section 272 (sexual assault with a weapon, threats to a third party or causing bodily harm);
    
    
  • (d) section 273 (aggravated sexual assault);
    
    
  • (e) section 279 (kidnapping and forcible confinement); or
    
    
  • (f) section 279.1 (hostage taking).
    
• Marginal note:Criminal harassment
  
  (6) Irrespective of whether a murder is planned and deliberate on the part of any person, murder is first degree murder when the death is caused by that person while committing or attempting to commit an offence under section 264 and the person committing that offence intended to cause the person murdered to fear for the safety of the person murdered or the safety of anyone known to the person murdered.
  
  
• Marginal note:Murder — terrorist activity
  
  (6.01) Irrespective of whether a murder is planned and deliberate on the part of a person, murder is first degree murder when the death is caused by that person while committing or attempting to commit an indictable offence under this or any other Act of Parliament if the act or omission constituting the offence also constitutes a terrorist activity.
  
  
• Marginal note:Murder — criminal organization
  
  (6.1) Irrespective of whether a murder is planned and deliberate on the part of a person, murder is first degree murder when
  
  • (a) the death is caused by that person for the benefit of, at the direction of or in association with a criminal organization; or
    
    
  • (b) the death is caused by that person while committing or attempting to commit an indictable offence under this or any other Act of Parliament for the benefit of, at the direction of or in association with a criminal organization.
    
• Marginal note:Intimidation
  
  (6.2) Irrespective of whether a murder is planned and deliberate on the part of a person, murder is first degree murder when the death is caused by that person while committing or attempting to commit an offence under section 423.1.
  
  
• Marginal note:Second degree murder
  
  (7) All murder that is not first degree murder is second degree murder.
  

 

[SnooperDuper]

Consecutive sentencing is new in Canada and intended for people who cannot be rehabilitated. It is not for all people who commit more than one murder consecutively.

Nope, the judge asks the jury members for their recommendation on whether the sentences should be served concurrently or consecutively if they find the accused guilty, and juries are certainly not not experts on who can or can't be rehabilitated.

Stephen Harper's government introduced the legislation to stop the "discount sentences" on committing multiple murders, i.e., prior to 2011, no matter how many people you killed, you were still eligible for parole in 25 years. Victims families felt that their loved one's lives counted for nothing if one victim or 10 victims resulted in the same sentence.

Bruce McArthur killed 8 but was granted 25 years to parole because 1) he confessed, sparing a prolonged trial and 2) he would be 91 when he reached parole eligibility, and parole is not guaranteed.

Andre Bissonette killed 6 and was sentenced to 40 years until parole (he would be 69) because 1) he confessed and 2) the judge found that a longer period would be cruel and unusual punishment.

Travis Baumgartner killed 3 and was sentenced to 40 years before parole (he would be 62) because he 1) confessed and...well, you get the picture.

More favourable sentences are not about potential rehabilitation, it's more about the accused's willingness to take responsibility for their crime by confessing.

 

[Errrr]

Has this article already been discussed as possibly related?

RCMP are searching for a man who likely has burns on his hands after a business in northern Manitoba was set ablaze.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/arson-business-manitoba-thompson-1.5217858

Too short. Both these guys were over six feet tall.

 

[tempcoops]

Is there a local WSer who can tell us what sandflies are?

We have them in Aus too. They a blowflies that have a nasty little bite to them. They leave you quite sore.

 

[1987]

My hunch is the fires are for the excitement. They were set purposely with the intent to destroy something, not by a meth accident, imo.

jmo

I don't know that I am far on board with a meth accident. I just don't understand easily burning a truck/car/suv. whatever fits at the time. there should be fire resistant treatments in cars. why isn't gasoline burning off without the whole thing burning so easily. I don't know just things that make me go hum.

 

[missy1974]

I've seen the lack of cash mentioned several times. Our card payment system is a little ahead of the USA. We can tap our bank cards at most points of sale up to $100. If Leondard Dyck was killed Friday, and the RAV4 was burnt out Monday it's possible he funded train tickets to Churchill that night. His cards wouldn't have been cancelled because no one knew he was dead. He has likely been funding them up until today.

yep, I mentioned this earlier. Tap can be used on both debit or credit cards here (up to $100) A lot of gas stations are also prepay, but I'm unsure if the tap would work at the pump? If they could, then they could have gassed up with little to no contact with anyone.

 

[10ofRods]

I don’t because it can’t be reliably determined that a 5 year old is going to grow up to become a mass murderer. There’s just too many variables. In times like this the media is looking to grab onto the negative to compete with headlines, everybody should’ve known, and once again that points the finger of blame back at the family. I don’t think they need that right now, especially considering the two haven’t been captured yet.

In reality, even if a parent was concerned about potential violent tendencies or possible mental illness, even illegal drug use, they’re most often powerless.

Kindergarten teachers do better than average at guessing who is going to have future trouble with the law. Some also do pretty well at picking out kids who end up having abnormal right pre-frontal cortices on MRI. Some kindergarten teachers are way better than others at this, of course.

 

[SilentSentry]

He bought a black suit. What else was going on in his life at the time.
His father is falling off all sorts of fences declaring that the purchase of a black suit means suicide.

I meant the part about the suit more in jest/sarcastically.

I totally agree, he literally said he was going to look for work, which means cold calling and interviews, if he graduated high school that would also be a good reason for a suit.

His father has been pretty inconsistent in his statements.

 

[Snoop Sister]

yep, I mentioned this earlier. Tap can be used on both debit or credit cards here (up to $100) A lot of gas stations are also prepay, but I'm unsure if the tap would work at the pump? If they could, then they could have gassed up with little to no contact with anyone.

Good question about tap working at the pump. I had my tap taken off my debit card...so I have no idea.

 

[MistyWaters]

BBM

Revenge against the world. Typical chip on the shoulder, me against the world mentality common in angsty, depressed teens. Obviously intensified because not all angsty, depressed teens go on a crime spree for gigs.

That coupled with an obsession in playing war-type (angry, violent) video games I think is a dangerous combination for angsty, depressed teens. IMO it’s similar to grooming to violence and killing. This is how they get their high so it’s not totally surprising if it’s transposed into reality.

But I’m certainly not suggesting video games are harmful to everybody. Just that it appears to be a common denominator in other past senseless violent attacks on totally innocent victims as well, along with other factors including social isolation and a lack of a healthy peer group involving other interests and hobbies.

 

[Herat]

I've seen the lack of cash mentioned several times. Our card payment system is a little ahead of the USA. We can tap our bank cards at most points of sale up to $100. If Leondard Dyck was killed Friday, and the RAV4 was burnt out Monday it's possible he funded train tickets to Churchill that night. His cards wouldn't have been cancelled because no one knew he was dead. He has likely been funding them up until today.

Wait, wait, wait......

Where did train tickets (pleural) to Churchill come into the discussion?

Who was going to Churchill? Was it Len Dyck?

 

[PingTheRouter]

Good question about tap working at the pump. I had my tap taken off my debit card...so I have no idea.

all tap and go purchases are insured incase of fraud and theft of card, you have nothing to worry about if that is why you had it removed

 

[missy1974]

Good question about tap working at the pump. I had my tap taken off my debit card...so I have no idea.

This is going to sound bad, but getting gas is "not my job" LOL Just asked hubby and he said he thinks you can but he doesn't and he's not 100% sure.

 

[Snoop Sister]

all tap and go purchases are insured incase of fraud and theft of card, you have nothing to worry about if that is why you had it removed

Yes I am aware of it being insured but I am forever leaving my debit
card all over the place ...so, it is precautionary for me. I don’t want the hassle of reporting theft etc.

 

[LoisLane]

He bought a black suit. What else was going on in his life at the time.
His father is falling off all sorts of fences declaring that the purchase of a black suit means suicide.

Has this article already been discussed as possibly related?

RCMP are searching for a man who likely has burns on his hands after a business in northern Manitoba was set ablaze.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/arson-business-manitoba-thompson-1.5217858

“The business, Butter Chicken Express, was engulfed in flames when crews arrived.”

<modsnip> If that wasn’t them then they have other players in this sick game.

Eta.. not sure if that could be the black suit.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/arson-business-manitoba-thompson-1.5217858

 

[SilentSentry]

Good question about tap working at the pump. I had my tap taken off my debit card...so I have no idea.

There are pumps with tap, but you can also go inside and prepay on the pump, tap, and come out and pump gas.

More exposure to cameras though

 

[24Brix]

The criminologist in the video at the link suggests that it's unusual for team killers to kill a couple as their first kill. The perps left their hometown on a Friday and the couple were found deceased on a Monday (I think I have those days right). Were there victims between Friday and Monday?

My gut has a sinking feeling.

jmo

I would not be surprised to find out there are other victims.

LD’s body was found in a turn-out. The picture of the crime scene made it appear to just be a wide gravelly spot on the side of the road. We don’t know why he was parked there. (Assuming that’s where the suspects encountered him and killed him.)

LF and CD we’re on the side of the road too. IMO, BS and KM may have killed them with the intention of taking the van as their next vehicle — only to find out it wouldn’t start. Perhaps the window being blown out from the inside was an act of frustration? And they didn’t burn it because they couldn’t get it off the road/away from the bodies?

Do we have confirmation that the the camper truck is the vehicle they left home in? I presume that it is, and that’s how they were identified as missing persons early-on. But I haven’t seen that stated definitively. Surely it was not their primary mode of transportation prior to this crime spree. I wonder who it was registered to...

All of the above is MOO.

 

[sargentmom]

Wait, wait, wait......

Where did train tickets (pleural) to Churchill come into the discussion?

Who was going to Churchill? Was it Len Dyck?

I was just saying it was possible. If they weren't named as suspects until Tuesday, but burnt out the RAV4 on Monday, Dyck's stolen cards could have provided a means out of Gillam to Churchill on the Monday night train without stealing another car. BEFORE their picture was everywhere.

 

[dotr]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/rcmp-search-manitoba-bc-killings-1.5223637
"The parents of the two suspects, and the parents of the two tourists who were killed, all want the teens to be "found whole" because "everybody wants to know why," Watt-Senner also said.

She has a message for the two young men.

"Turn yourself in," she said.

"Save some families more grief and … come out with your hands up, and let us take you into custody."

 

[LadyL]

This is going to sound bad, but getting gas is "not my job" LOL Just asked hubby and he said he thinks you can but he doesn't and he's not 100% sure.

I've never seen tap at the pump.