CANADA - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #7

[SBurrus]

If the two individuals spotted near the dump are not BS and KM, then I'm getting more convinced that the teenagers are no longer in Manitoba...and have probably crossed Hudson Bay and are now in northern Ontario or northern Quebec.

Looking at the timeline posted on page 55 of this thread...I am just now making the connection that the RAV4 was found burned northeast of Gillam...putting the two young men even closer to Hudson Bay. If their ultimate aim was to leave the area, crossing the bay would be the most direct route, as opposed to going southwest, back into the thick of the wilderness.

Of course, a third option is that they are heading back toward their homes in BC.

Just my opinion on the options...but I find it mindboggling that two teenagers continue to evade the experienced personnel from the RCMP...unless they simply are no longer in the area being surveilled by the professionals.

 

[OldCop]

The RCMP didn't call these 2 the suspects for the 3 murders till 5 days later. I'd like to know what took so long to figure out they were the murderers? If they somehow had known sooner and put out BS and KM were the 1s wanted then MAYBE that First Nations officer could have arrested them when he came upon them in Split Lake and we wouldn't be here hoping and waiting for these 2 to be captured. JMO

To try and put it in perspective: The murders of CD and LF occurred on late Sunday/early Monday. LE began investigating that incident on Monday. They had unidentied bodies with an improperly registered vehicle. They were working with whatever forensics may have been available at the scene to determine what happened and by whom.
Meanwhile, several days later, a burned out camper was found over 7 hours away. LE could not locate the occupants. An unidentified body was found about 2 miles away from the burned camper. Was this body connected to the camper? I presume they eventually figured out that the camper was being driven by BS and KM after tracing the camper registration. Were the occupants of the camper victims or suspects?
Now, the distance between the first homicides and the second would be about the distance between Boston and Baltimore. You would not naturally assume these 2 crimes were connected. Furthermore, a murder in Boston would not result in having people in Kansas locking their doors unless or until there was reason to believe the suspects were in Kansas.
So often LE are accused of jumping to conclusions. In this case they are criticized for being methodical. They were very much aware of how important it was to put this together, but it would also be totally irresponsible to put out false information that would cause public panic. Unfortunately, the lack of initial evidence and information allowed the suspects to get a head start and resulted a delay in getting the suspect descriptions out to the public. As far as I can see, the RCMP have been trying to get out information as soon as they can confirm it.

 

[CanadianMade]

No, couldn't hear the questions at all.

Thanks. Good to know it wasn't my laptop having a tantrum or something.

 

[gitana1]

Guns are very common in isolated and rural areas of Canada. However, they are a privilege, not a right, so there are fairly rigorous laws governing them and the majority of Canadians support even stricter laws. Also, our mindset regarding guns is that they are for hunting and protection from wild animals. We don't normally see them as a form of protection against people.

I've read Canada ranks high worldwide for private gun ownership. But Canadians don't have a whole mythology around guns. They're not obsessed like we are.

Has anyone determined if these two creeps have access to guns?

 

[sleuth3000]

Residents have made comments on how thick the brush is, along the lines of "I could be 10 feet away youd never know"

 

[Deleted member 248860]

Thought: what if the suspects aren't in this city, and this manhunt/press coverage/etc. is an attempt to get them to move and expose themselves because they think police are too busy looking elsewhere?

If I were a fugitive holed down somewhere, and heard there was a big search effort hundreds of miles away, I might think that this is the time to make a break for it.

I don’t think that there is any prospect of the RCMP misleading the community in that way. There would be hell to pay afterward. I’m pretty sure that it would cost the head of the RCMP, Brenda Lucki, her job, and that there would be a huge ruckus in Parliament with demands for the resignation of the minister, Ralph Goodale, responsible for the RCMP.

 

[CanadianMade]

Thought: what if the suspects aren't in this city, and this manhunt/press coverage/etc. is an attempt to get them to move and expose themselves because they think police are too busy looking elsewhere?

If I were a fugitive holed down somewhere, and heard there was a big search effort hundreds of miles away, I might think that this is the time to make a break for it.

I'd be waiting until they called off the search.

 

[enelram]

It's going to come down to an average citizen spotting them going through a dumpster somewhere--probably behind a grocery store.
And sounding the alarm in time.
I just don't want anymore innocents hurt.

Well since there aren't any grocery stores or
restaurants anywhere near York Landing,
maybe another dump site or a group of trash cans will do them in.
Are houses so close together in Y.L. that it would be risky to break in for food?

 

[jmarshmarsh]

I don’t think that there is any prospect of the RCMP misleading the community in that way. There would be hell to pay afterward. I’m pretty sure that it would cost the head of the RCMP her job, and that there would be a huge ruckus in Parliament.

Especially as the sighting was by the Bear Clan Patrol and they are doing interviews. They wouldn't mislead the community like that.

 

[PaulR]

Well since there aren't any grocery stores or
restaurants anywhere near York Landing,
maybe another dump site or a group of trash cans will do them in.
Are houses so close together in Y.L. that it would be risky to break in for food?

You can look at Google Maps satellite view, houses seem close together and not that many trees in between. Breaking into a house now would be risky.

 

[musicaljoke]

... I don't know any one with a handgun, and that's the biggest difference between gun ownership in Canada vs the US. You need a license to even transport a handgun, there's no open carry or concealed carry here. Also, we don't have the same access to the powerful automatic or semi-automatic weapons capable of firing multiple rounds here. That's all just off the top of my head...maybe someone with more knowledge can weigh in?

Another cultural difference related to guns in this case, is that most Canadians expect the police to bring the suspects into custody without killing them. In spite of the father's comment about going out in a blaze of glory, shooting to kill and "Suicide by Cop" tend to be more likely American expectations.

More work is expected from the RCMP. They can't just go in and blast the fugitives away. They have to go in with a negotiation team and take the time needed to safely bring the suspects in.

 

[10ofRods]

You would be ok using it in that instance. You are entitled under law to repel an assault if:
1. You use only the force that is reasonable given the circumstances; and
2. The intent behind any force used is not to maim or kill the assailant.

Moreover, case law (R v. Docherty 2012) found that you do not have a duty to retreat from your own home. 2012 ONCA 784 (CanLII) | CanLII

Good to know. Most places are sane on this topic. My bear spray is clearly not intended to kill or maim anyone. I'd use something else for that.

 

[Estrojane]

I'd say KM is Lanius; check the pic of 'Lanius without the helmet' caracter on the link you provided (scroll down a bit
). The remarkable KM-Lanius resemblance was noticed a couple of threads ago if I remember correctly. I do feel the actions of the suspects have roots in the games they we into. Sure hope LE has access to the online life of the guys or have found someone to guide them in this online world!

Yeah, I thought that at first, that KM is Lanius because of the facial hair but Lanius is also the head strategist so I think it is Bryer. Why is he the one in camo then? However, it very well could be that Kam is Lanius and Bryer is one of his loyal legionaries.

I think LE's first priority is just simply to catch them. Even if it turns out that these two are playing Lanius:Fallout in 3-D, nobody could predict what they would do next anyway.

 

[Castlinghigh]

Thought: what if the suspects aren't in this city, and this manhunt/press coverage/etc. is an attempt to get them to move and expose themselves because they think police are too busy looking elsewhere?

If I were a fugitive holed down somewhere, and heard there was a big search effort hundreds of miles away, I might think that this is the time to make a break for it.

interesting point

 

[otto]

"Locals say they could have followed hydro ... lines."

Locals : "difficult but not impossible"

Hey maybe my theory was more plausible than I thought. I'll put these up again for anyone who wants to consider the possibility

1st pic, possible route marked in red
2nd pic possible route distance (about 130km)
3rd pic detail area of beginning and end of possible trail
4th pic, detail of conditions under the line.

CBC has been exploring the hydro line and train track as well. If they were in the area, they could continue past York Landing along the same trails or routes.

 

[rickcross]

It's going to come down to an average citizen spotting them going through a dumpster somewhere--probably behind a grocery store.
And sounding the alarm in time.
I just don't want anymore innocents hurt.

The fact that they were sighted in the dump tells me they are hungry, or at the very least they are looking for items that they could make use of in the woods. either way, they didn't appear to be able to fill their stomachs at the dump, and its now a day later. You are correct in that this hunger will eventually force them to come out of hiding and put themselves in public sight. That said, they still have a gun and I hope there desperation doesn't get to the point where they are forced to use it.

 

[Seattle1]

In the old days people used to fire guns in the wilderness during searches to communicate. This is a seriously rural, mostly wilderness area. I doubt anyone is going to get reprimanded. They know what they're doing.

I don't understand why there's always such a tendency to criticize LE. The RCMP seems to be working for hard to find these two and keep everyone safe.

Hear, hear! @ Gitana1

Please also take note that RCMP mobilized on York Landing within 20 minutes or less of receiving call from the Bear Clan Patrol about the sighting.

While it's not been confirmed that RCMP fired the shots heard, this form of "signal" may have been discussed prior to the situation.

And some have also said shots fired last night may have been at bear. This is mating season for bears and this danger can't be underestimated.

MOO

 

[Paulette]

Residents have made comments on how thick the brush is, along the lines of "I could be 10 feet away youd never know"

If an unwashed body was 10 feet away you'd know. I opened the sliding glass door to the balcony and the smell was overwhelming instantly - a transient 25 feet away and 20 feet below my balcony was parked outside. He stunk up the neighborhood.

 

[Gina20]

<modsnip: quoted post was removed>

Some survivalist sites swear that you can hide from police by finding a depression in the ground and putting a specific kind of plastic sheeting over it. They say that as long as you don't touch the sheeting, heat-seeking devices can't find you. See the rabbit holes this search has led us down!

New non-profane reference to the duo: jackrabbits. Hiding in holes in the ground.

 

[Snoop Sister]

Good morning all
What is the latest? I thought the sighting was bogus last night. No one seemed to agree with me. But, the whole dump thing didn’t make sense. Has there been any other sightings of suspects?

However, I am often wrong...