GUILTY Canada - Melissa Richmond, 28, stabbed to death, Winchester, Ont, 24 July 2013

[otto]

Here's another view

 

[prospektor]

I'm pretty sure that the Canadian law does not allow for charging and imprisoning people so that they will be stressed and potentially confess to criminal acts.

And I'm pretty sure LE would be very aware of that and would not state this as a reason.

 

[otto]

And I'm pretty sure LE would be very aware of that and would not state this as a reason.

If there was no evidence, what reason would police provide in order to obtain an arrest warrant?

 

[humandoing]

I'm pretty sure that the Canadian law does not allow for charging and imprisoning people so that they will be stressed and potentially confess to criminal acts.

Correct.

It's ironic that some of the newcomers to this thread defending the husband against some of the speculation have done it by using pure speculation themselves.

Facts are facts folks.

Fact is until he can prove otherwise, the cops think Howard brutally murdered Melissa.

 

[LurkingSpectator]

If there was no evidence, what reason would police provide in order to obtain an arrest warrant?

No evidence, and circumstantial evidence are two different things. An arrest warrant can be issued on circumstantial evidence alone, provided there is a sufficient amount of it, and usually in combination with other concerns, such as the person being a possible threat to themselves or others, flight risk, etc.

There is most definitely a lot of circumstantial evidence in this case, who knows what physical evidence they have. Many arrests are made on overwhelming circumstantial evidence in order to then have the opportunity to obtain physical evidence afterwards.

 

[matou]

The Kelsey's info is coming from the friend SR. Has this been confirmed by LE?

Given the proximity between the location of Richmond’s car and where her body was found, Rabinovitch can’t understand why it took police so long to find her friend.

“It makes me angry,” Rabinovitch said. “I want answers.

“I want the chief of police to explain to me why nobody was in that ditch for two days, if her car was found at the Denny’s and her body was found in the ditch outside of the Kelsey’s.”

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/P...+with+multiple+stab+wounds/8720823/story.html

 

[LurkingSpectator]

Correct.

It's ironic that some of the newcomers to this thread defending the husband against some of the speculation have done it by using pure speculation themselves.

Facts are facts folks.

Fact is until he can prove otherwise, the cops think Howard brutally murdered Melissa.

That is indeed the fact, they THINK he brutally murdered Melissa. I don't blame them. The thought that HR knew more than he was saying has been in my head since I first heard she disappeared. I don't think anyone who knows Howard on this thread is saying the police are framing him. I believe, like those who believe he may have deliberately murdered his wife, people who know him are offering other alternatives. Until the evidence is fully known, we have no idea and it is all speculation, no matter what. I believe, however, that what may happen is we may never know, since if a plea deal occurs, there will be no trial, and the facts will never be made public.

Offering more insight into the possibilities and alternate scenarios based on personal knowledge and experience is not a bad thing, nor is it attacking anyone who believes differently.

 

[matou]

This is an OPP poster for Melissa. I don't understand the info about her car. "She was not found with her car."

http://cornwallfreenews.com/2013/07...melissa-richmonds-car-was-found-july-28-2013/

 

[LurkingSpectator]

This is an OPP poster for Melissa. I don't understand the info about her car. "She was not found with her car."

This poster was actually being made during the evening that the car had been found, by a friend of HR and MR, and then provided to the OPP. It was being created during the evening that the car had been found, but not announced by the main searchers or police. It was not finalized until the next evening. This was the third or fourth poster that was made. What it is referring to is that at the time the poster was released, Melissa's car had been found, but not her. She was not in the car. The reasoning was that by keeping the description of the car in the poster, someone who may have seen her car would have their memory jogged.

 

[rogue ant]

Facts are facts folks. Fact is until he can prove otherwise.

Not quite. He is innocent until proven guilty. He does not bear the burden of proving his innocence. LE has the burden of proving his guilt.

 

[LurkingSpectator]

The Kelsey's info is coming from the friend SR. Has this been confirmed by LE?

A good many media outlets who were on the scene waiting for the body to be recovered have also stated repeatedly that the body was found behind the Kelsey's in the ravine. I do not believe the police have officially confirmed this at this time, but the pictures taken of the body being removed seem to support it.

 

[humandoing]

Not quite. He is innocent until proven guilty. He does not bear the burden of proving his innocence. LE has the burden of proving his guilt.

You're right, it sounds like I'm saying he's guilty, to which he should be prusumed innocent until the cops can prove otherwise.

I have truly have no idea if he is or not, nor did I mean to claim he is. Only wanted to point out what the cops think at the moment.

What I should have said was...

"Facts are facts folks.

Fact is the cops think Howard brutally murdered Melissa."

My apologies.

 

[humandoing]

Offering more insight into the possibilities and alternate scenarios based on personal knowledge and experience is not a bad thing, nor is it attacking anyone who believes differently.

I agree, that's why I'm here; I think this is a great forum and don't want to offend anyone as I'd like to continue to be here and take part.

It was not my intention to attack anyone whatsoever. I only wanted to point out the irony in some people's speculation attempting to rule out another's speculation because they have some kind of (even if only minimal) personal knowledge...because all it really is (as you said)...still just speculation.

No one in specific, just a general observation and I'm sorry if anyone took offence to it.

The more info people feel the need to share (no matter how personally involved) can hopefully shed more light on the case to add more depth and perspective to the ongoing (hopefully friendly) discussion.

 

[LurkingSpectator]

I agree, that's why I'm here; I think this is a great forum and don't want to offend anyone as I'd like to continue to be here and take part.

It was not my intention to attack anyone whatsoever. I only wanted to point out the irony in some people's speculation attempting to rule out another's speculation because they have some kind of (even if only minimal) personal knowledge...because all it really is (as you said)...still just speculation.

No one in specific, just a general observation and I'm sorry if anyone took offence to it.

The more info people feel the need to share (no matter how personally involved) can hopefully shed more light on the case to add more depth and perspective to the ongoing (hopefully friendly) discussion.

No problem on my end I know it looks to you like I just found this site and registered so I can post, but I've actually been reading Websleuths off and on for a while, it is just that this is the first forum I have felt I could actually contribute anything too. I've been reading the forum since the beginning, and I just figured some insight into the personality of the suspect, the disability he is dealing with, and answers to some questions people had to which I have the answers could be helpful. I, personally, have no problem with speculation. You speculate it was deliberate murder for insurance money based on news of financial issues the couple was having, and some response that anyone who didn't know HR would think strange. Personally, I don't think it was a deliberate murder, based on having knowledge of the Society, his nature, and the disability he is dealing with. I never said I believe 100% that he is innocent. Even I, who have always thought HR is a great guy, am finding that hard to believe, but I truly believe a horrible thing happened, and his disability played a part, but only time will tell. Until then, speculate away.

 

[otto]

No evidence, and circumstantial evidence are two different things. An arrest warrant can be issued on circumstantial evidence alone, provided there is a sufficient amount of it, and usually in combination with other concerns, such as the person being a possible threat to themselves or others, flight risk, etc.

There is most definitely a lot of circumstantial evidence in this case, who knows what physical evidence they have. Many arrests are made on overwhelming circumstantial evidence in order to then have the opportunity to obtain physical evidence afterwards.

Arrests are made on the basis of incriminating evidence, not for the purpose of police going on fishing expeditions.

 

[otto]

No problem on my end I know it looks to you like I just found this site and registered so I can post, but I've actually been reading Websleuths off and on for a while, it is just that this is the first forum I have felt I could actually contribute anything too. I've been reading the forum since the beginning, and I just figured some insight into the personality of the suspect, the disability he is dealing with, and answers to some questions people had to which I have the answers could be helpful. I, personally, have no problem with speculation. You speculate it was deliberate murder for insurance money based on news of financial issues the couple was having, and some response that anyone who didn't know HR would think strange. Personally, I don't think it was a deliberate murder, based on having knowledge of the Society, his nature, and the disability he is dealing with. I never said I believe 100% that he is innocent. Even I, who have always thought HR is a great guy, am finding that hard to believe, but I truly believe a horrible thing happened, and his disability played a part, but only time will tell. Until then, speculate away.

I think it's rather normal to want to defend an acquaintance, or friend, that is accused of a brutal murder ... disbelief is the normal reaction. Thing is though, it's rather difficult to accidentally murder someone with multiple stab wounds in a ditch and remove half of the victim's clothing. Somewhere during that murder, there was some deliberate planning to make the murder appear like a random rape/murder.

 

[LurkingSpectator]

I think it's rather normal to want to defend an acquaintance, or friend, that is accused of a brutal murder ... disbelief is the normal reaction. Thing is though, it's rather difficult to accidentally murder someone with multiple stab wounds in a ditch and remove half of the victim's clothing. Somewhere during that murder, there was some deliberate planning to make the murder appear like a random rape/murder.

I can't say I disagree with that statement at all. I think the big question is whether or not the CoD is stabbing, and if not, were the stab wounds made post mortem? As to the planning to make it look random, I am not at all surprised at the idea that a military member could do some pretty detailed and careful cover up moves while still in a panic. These are guys trained to respond in crisis after all.

 

[toom]

I wonder if Melissa's stab wounds were done post-mortem?

IMOO, the explanation that currently makes sense given the weight of evidence that we have available to us (which is scant to say the least) is that Howard pushed her down some stairs in a moment of PTSD induced rage (trauma), panicked and staged the dump site to look like a murder (stab wounds being part of that).

 

[LurkingSpectator]

Arrests are made on the basis of incriminating evidence, not for the purpose of police going on fishing expeditions.

I never said they were going on a 'fishing' expedition. I said that they may make an arrest based on a substantial amount of 'circumstantial' evidence, and then be able to obtain the physical evidence afterward. I'm stating this, because I've been involved in at least 2 criminal cases where this is exactly what happened. In both cases, the person was found guilty, but the actual physical evidence proving the guilt was not obtained until after the arrests.

In my opinion, LE did not want HR going to the wake and funeral, either because they were being considerate of the victim's family, or because they felt it was a flight risk, leaving the area.

 

[otto]

I never said they were going on a 'fishing' expedition. I said that they may make an arrest based on a substantial amount of 'circumstantial' evidence, and then be able to obtain the physical evidence afterward. I'm stating this, because I've been involved in at least 2 criminal cases where this is exactly what happened. In both cases, the person was found guilty, but the actual physical evidence proving the guilt was not obtained until after the arrests.

In my opinion, LE did not want HR going to the wake and funeral, either because they were being considerate of the victim's family, or because they felt it was a flight risk, leaving the area.

Police do continue to collect evidence after an arrest and before a trial, but there should not be an arrest without evidence of guilt.