Found Safe Canada - O’Driscoll-Zak sisters, 2 & 5, abduction by aunt & grandmother, Cochrane, 12 Mar 2021

[MistyWaters]

The Global TV video on the above link is worth watching.

From it - “The mother of the girls is hesitant to speak out because of the legalities involved and her lawyers say they won’t be commenting because it’s an open RCMP investigation”.

 

[Aurora90]

I've been curious whether the mother and children moved to the grandmother/grandparents (???) rural home near Cochrane in 2019 when the father initiated divorce proceedings. That could result in a close, nurturing relationship between children and grandmother. Given the grandmother's age of 68, it's possible that the aunt went along to help.

That also means that the abduction could have been in the works for the last 18 months.

I have stayed away from posting on here because I actually briefly went on a handful of dates with CZ in fall of 2019. Very strange to see all of this online. I know all of it is hearsay, but he would often tell me of what was going on. She was being very difficult and even then made it very difficult for him to see them. He made many efforts and spent all of his time talking about or trying to see those kids.

That being said, he appears to be slightly different from when I briefly dated him. He had gone through some sort of change spiritually and didn't align with JDZ anymore. He lost 50 pounds in a matter of months due to his veganism and he was starting into buddism.

I'm active on here but I know how it looks, having someone come online and say they knew so and so...

Also, mods if this is wrong to write, please delete my apologies.

But to be honest, he worked more than his communications job. He did two other part time jobs, and while I don't know much about how these things go, but I remember all those other jobs were to provide for his children. He had made comments even then about how difficult his ex wife was being, making it difficult. There were moments where he was only allowed to see them after dinner on weekdays or something. So he would make the long drive, to see them (he lived in downtown Calgary at the time) and see me after putting them to bed. He handled it well at the time, but I don't think at the time he saw that it could be like this down the road..

I do think he's a bit odd, and I recall him mentioning how religious his ex was and she didn't get his spiritual shift. But who's to say that the spiritual shift isn't indicative of something more....?

 

[Aurora90]

I know it counts for truly nothing. But he was very happy and upbeat despite all that he was going through. He was very tired all of the time though. I remember him mentioning his wife didn't take the divorce very well. They were together for a long time, and if I am being completely honest I got the impression that she was bein vindictive. I remember thinking the ex was trying to get him back. With these late night visits and whatnot. I don't think she took it well. And I truly believe this is a vindictive act. But the part that gets me is getting the family involved.

While I never got the impression he would hurt those girls (he wouldn't stop talking about them), and I think the judge agrees hence being granted FULL CUSTODY, I wonder what makes the family believe the kids are not safe with him. I don't think there has been any reason to think that they would be in danger with him. If anything, these actions indicate the children are not safe with her or her family.

This is all so strange. In my heart, I truly believe those kids are alive and "well" given the circumstances. But this is a selfish act on their part and they need to get it together.

 

[Sketchy]

Has anyone seen this thread on LinkedIn from a Caroline O’Driscoll? Not sure what the connection is to JOZ or the girls. She has also got friends/strangers on Facebook to repost all her posts too.
What are your thoughts? Just my opinion, but I wonder if she is trying to clear JOZ’s name and make CZ look bad, then they will bring the girls back? MOO

Looks to me like a smear campaign from a cursory read. The timing of the abuse allegations should be a red flag to third parties. Logic should dictate that the mother has been alienating the kids long before the reports of abuse, so there is a ramping up of progressively more extreme behaviors and allegations when the mother doesn’t get her way. And of course according to her everyone who doesn’t give her her way is corrupt. MOO

 

[Sketchy]

After looking at that LinkedIn thing, I know for a fact some of it isn't true. He turned down a joint during our time together and also told me he didn't drink. In fact, he ordered non alcoholic beer many times. But I do believe that he had some sort of spiritual situation. He said as much.

If the sexual abuse comments from the children are correct, it makes sense why the family won't let him see the kids. Its concerning because he always spoke about how much he loved his little girl Wyatt. She was super super young at that time though.

To be completely honest, if it were me and the police wanted to give him full custody and my kids told me he touched them. You'd have to fight me and my family to get to them.

I would really like to know why those claims aren't being taken seriously.

Its all he said she said, but I would like to know if those claims have been looked into. For the sake of the children, look into it.

They can’t look into it if they can’t find the kids. The child has also been examined at the hospital so those records would probably be investigated.
I find it hard to believe that this wouldn’t be taken seriously or investigated at all. Given the pattern of behavior it’s more likely that any conclusion that doesn’t suit the mother is deemed incompetent.

I found this quite interesting:
In most reported cases where a judge decided that an abuse allegation by a custodial parent was unfounded, the accusing parent continued to have custody,[57] though in some cases the judge warned the accuser that if he or she persisted in making unfounded allegations of abuse, custody might be varied. Those cases in which a judge was most likely to reverse custody (or terminate access if the allegation was made by an access parent), were ones where the accuser appeared to be suffering from an emotional disturbance that contributed to the making of the allegation, or appeared to be so hostile towards the wrongfully accused parent that the children would suffer.

An example of a case where the accusing parent lost custody is the Ontario decision of Ross v. Aubertin.[58] Following separation and the establishment of joint custody for a young girl, the mother repeatedly made allegations of physical and sexual abuse against the father, in particular to doctors. The physicians could find no evidence to support the allegations and began to have concerns about the effect on the child of relatively intrusive medical examinations and of the mother's open discussion of her allegations in the presence of the child. Assessors from the Family Court Clinic expressed similar concerns and concluded that the father was more "child-focused and more likely to promote a positive relationship with both parents." Counsel for the child expressed "great concerns about the [lack] of insight of a parent who would continually make these false allegations and not be apparently aware of the risk to the child." The judge terminated the mother's custody and awarded custody to the father, with reasonable access to the mother.

Source: 5.0 ISSUES RELATED TO ALLEGATIONS OF CHILD ABUSE IN THE CONTEXT OF PARENTAL SEPARATION - ALLEGATIONS OF CHILD ABUSE IN THE CONTEXT OF PARENTAL SEPARATION: A DISCUSSION PAPER (2001-FCY-4E)

 

[FrostOwl]

A few questions: Is the mother (and her family) members of a Christian (perhaps conservative faith)? <modsnip> If so, could she believe that the danger from the father was to the immortality of the girls' souls, rather than their physical bodies?

 

[Inthedetails]

Seems like we're seeing some movement on this case. jmo

 

[Ontario Mom]

Seems like we're seeing some movement on this case. jmo

Link?

 

[Inthedetails]

Link?

I was commenting in general to conversation upthread about finances but guess I wasn't as obvious on the screen as I was in my head. Here you go:

"The RCMP believe that children are with Allison and Therese O’Driscoll and that the family is receiving assistance from others to prevent them from being found."

Canada Police Report

It's an updated article that was first published awhile ago.

jmo

 

[MistyWaters]

Reposting this link to yesterday’s Global News report in case anyone missed it as well. In the video, just after 00.40 is also a brief aerial view of the grandmother’s home, assumably where the children disappeared from. I can’t figure out how to post a direct link to the video.

RCMP continue to look for missing Cochrane girls, believe people are helping hide them

 

[MistyWaters]

I was commenting in general to conversation upthread about finances but guess I wasn't as obvious on the screen as I was in my head. Here you go:

"The RCMP believe that children are with Allison and Therese O’Driscoll and that the family is receiving assistance from others to prevent them from being found."

Canada Police Report

It's an updated article that was first published awhile ago.

jmo

I thought this was noteworthy as well -

“Police have not stopped investigating and won’t stop until they locate the children.”

 

[Seattle1]

dbm

 

[MistyWaters]

They can’t look into it if they can’t find the kids. The child has also been examined at the hospital so those records would probably be investigated.
I find it hard to believe that this wouldn’t be taken seriously or investigated at all. Given the pattern of behavior it’s more likely that any conclusion that doesn’t suit the mother is deemed incompetent.

I found this quite interesting:
In most reported cases where a judge decided that an abuse allegation by a custodial parent was unfounded, the accusing parent continued to have custody,[57] though in some cases the judge warned the accuser that if he or she persisted in making unfounded allegations of abuse, custody might be varied. Those cases in which a judge was most likely to reverse custody (or terminate access if the allegation was made by an access parent), were ones where the accuser appeared to be suffering from an emotional disturbance that contributed to the making of the allegation, or appeared to be so hostile towards the wrongfully accused parent that the children would suffer.

An example of a case where the accusing parent lost custody is the Ontario decision of Ross v. Aubertin.[58] Following separation and the establishment of joint custody for a young girl, the mother repeatedly made allegations of physical and sexual abuse against the father, in particular to doctors. The physicians could find no evidence to support the allegations and began to have concerns about the effect on the child of relatively intrusive medical examinations and of the mother's open discussion of her allegations in the presence of the child. Assessors from the Family Court Clinic expressed similar concerns and concluded that the father was more "child-focused and more likely to promote a positive relationship with both parents." Counsel for the child expressed "great concerns about the [lack] of insight of a parent who would continually make these false allegations and not be apparently aware of the risk to the child." The judge terminated the mother's custody and awarded custody to the father, with reasonable access to the mother.

Source: 5.0 ISSUES RELATED TO ALLEGATIONS OF CHILD ABUSE IN THE CONTEXT OF PARENTAL SEPARATION - ALLEGATIONS OF CHILD ABUSE IN THE CONTEXT OF PARENTAL SEPARATION: A DISCUSSION PAPER (2001-FCY-4E)

That’s a very interesting judgement. Certainly it’s critical that children be protected from abusive situations but false allegations are almost as harmful, even more so if a child is coached to lie. If one parent attempts to use false allegations as a weapon to prevent access by the other, no wonder a co-parenting situation becomes impossible.

“Counsel for the child expressed "great concerns about the [lack] of insight of a parent who would continually make these false allegations and not be apparently aware of the risk to the child."

 

[otto]

That’s a very interesting judgement. Certainly it’s critical that children be protected from abusive situations but false allegations are almost as harmful, even more so if a child is coached to lie. If one parent attempts to use false allegations as a weapon to prevent access by the other, no wonder a co-parenting situation becomes impossible.

“Counsel for the child expressed "great concerns about the [lack] of insight of a parent who would continually make these false allegations and not be apparently aware of the risk to the child."

I think that it is extraordinarily harmful to the children for anyone related to the children to publicly share an opinion regarding allegations of abuse. I understand that the mother's family may believe that the best path to overthrow a legal decision is to use online platforms and smear campaigns to sway opinion. However, that path relies on using the children as pawns and to portray them as victims, with no consideration for the children's privacy today and in their futures.

 

[concon19]

Welcome to WS @concon19. It's always great to have local members and the input only somebody familiar with the area can provide. Not only is WS a facts-based forum but the forum also protects the privacy of family and friends of the victims and/or suspects. In other words, we can not link the social media accounts of family members. I'm adding the link to WS rules below for your convenience.

Rules - Social Media - Facebook, Twitter, etc.

Thanks for letting me know!

 

[MistyWaters]

The latest twist.....it seems the mother’s attorneys are insinuating something different might’ve occurred, other than an abduction of the children by the grandmother and aunt.

'Our hearts are beyond broken': RCMP have yet to locate two Cochrane sisters three weeks after disappearance | Calgary Herald
“Colin said his sole focus is locating his daughters safely.

“I’ll move mountains to find them,” he said Friday morning. “We’re just so desperately worried about the girls. It’s been three weeks today and our hearts are beyond broken.”

He’s worried Leonine and Wyatt could be in harm’s way.....

....Diann Castle, one of the lawyers representing Jacqui, said the girls’ mother is feeling “terrible.”

“She’s a wreck,” said Castle. “These children are all that she lived for, worked for, everything. Can you imagine not seeing your kids for three weeks?”......

....Co-counsel Tanya Kelm said there’s a “complicated history behind it all” but RCMP are only investigating one possible conclusion.

“It’s assumed the grandmother and the aunt have abducted the children,” Kelm said Thursday. “There has been no exploration of the alternatives.”

She said there are concerns about the safety of the children and of their grandmother and aunt.

“(It appears) the RCMP has a reason to believe they’re safe — and I hope they do, because if they don’t and their bodies show up somewhere else I would be very upset,” said Castle....”

 

[otto]

The latest twist.....it seems the mother’s attorneys are insinuating something different might’ve occurred, other than an abduction of the children by the grandmother and aunt.

'Our hearts are beyond broken': RCMP have yet to locate two Cochrane sisters three weeks after disappearance | Calgary Herald
“Colin said his sole focus is locating his daughters safely.

“I’ll move mountains to find them,” he said Friday morning. “We’re just so desperately worried about the girls. It’s been three weeks today and our hearts are beyond broken.”

He’s worried Leonine and Wyatt could be in harm’s way.....

....Diann Castle, one of the lawyers representing Jacqui, said the girls’ mother is feeling “terrible.”

“She’s a wreck,” said Castle. “These children are all that she lived for, worked for, everything. Can you imagine not seeing your kids for three weeks?”......

....Co-counsel Tanya Kelm said there’s a “complicated history behind it all” but RCMP are only investigating one possible conclusion.

“It’s assumed the grandmother and the aunt have abducted the children,” Kelm said Thursday. “There has been no exploration of the alternatives.”

She said there are concerns about the safety of the children and of their grandmother and aunt.

“(It appears) the RCMP has a reason to believe they’re safe — and I hope they do, because if they don’t and their bodies show up somewhere else I would be very upset,” said Castle....”

That's an odd comment coming from the mother's lawyer, Diann Castle. If the lawyer actually believes that the children are not safe, why has she not encouraged her client, the mother, to go public and plea for the safe return of the children that she last saw with her mother and sister?

Always a good idea to see how people feel about Diann Castle representing them during custody and divorce:
I found 33 reviews for Diann Castle on LawyerRatingz.com

'Our hearts are beyond broken': RCMP have yet to locate two Cochrane sisters three weeks after disappearance | Calgary Herald

 

[Sillybilly]

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[otto]

The children are presumably alive and well per RCMP. Although their normal routines and relationships are terminated, they are alive. Because they are alive they are more well than if they were not alive?

It is beyond selfish for one parent to attempt to destroy relationships between children and parent for life.

 

[otto]

I'm curious why the mother's lawyer, Diann Castle, suddenly tossed out that perhaps the grandmother, aunt and children's lives may be in grave danger. It's been three weeks. Why so long to react?

Did the lawyer and the mother just realize, three weeks later, that when two people abduct two children, there's no guarantee that the children are alive and well - so perhaps a public plea from the mother for proof of life might be in order? Perhaps blame RCMP for not presuming the worst in a look over there moment?

Blaming RCMP for believing that the children are alive and well - what is that about? If the lawyer truly believed that the children were at risk, wouldn't the mother have said something under advice of lawyer sooner?

It's strikes me that the lawyer is playing a game of "what if the grandmother and aunt didn't abduct the children and they're lying dead in a ditch, why aren't RCMP doing anything!" Meanwhile, they are perhaps in Toronto, fully masked and unrecognizable, hypothetically. Meanwhile, the abducted family are not lying dead in a ditch, but appear to have relocated.

'Our hearts are beyond broken': RCMP have yet to locate two Cochrane sisters three weeks after disappearance | Calgary Herald