Found Safe Canada - O’Driscoll-Zak sisters, 2 & 5, abduction by aunt & grandmother, Cochrane, 12 Mar 2021

[Ontario Mom]

Thanks, @Ontario Mom -- I don't think I've ever seen a girlfriend or fiance referred to as the common-law wife in news media before!

I have seen it often, but like you mentioned, I didn't think they were divorced? I'm not sure why I thought that.

 

[MistyWaters]

It didn't sound like a dig to me. That's what partners are called here, that aren't married but have resided together for over a year. Legally they're common law. 3 of my adult daughters were common law for years, and two still are. (The other one finally decided to get married).

jmo

It didn’t sound like a dig to me either as it defines the status of the relationship between CZ and his female partner.

 

[Satchie]

Thanks, @Ontario Mom -- I don't think I've ever seen a girlfriend or fiance referred to as the common-law wife in news media before!

I noticed in the reporting on the Nova Scotia shooter, there was initially great confusion from the media reporting on his 'girlfriend'. However, when police issued an official statement they referred to her as his 'common law partner', so that's eventually how media reported it.

I think what is significant, from a legal point of view, is a common law partner lives in the home and has no other home. The person is not just a guest, so cannot leave when, for eg, the partner's children move in.

 

[MistyWaters]

I noticed in the reporting on the Nova Scotia shooter, there was initially great confusion from the media reporting on his 'girlfriend'. However, when police issued an official statement they referred to her as his 'common law partner', so that's eventually how media reported it.

I think what is significant, from a legal point of view, is a common law partner lives in the home and has no other home. The person is not just a guest, so cannot leave when, for eg, the partner's children move in.

Yes that’s right, not a girlfriend nor a female tenant/boarder as the term common law indicates the relationship is also conjugal.

 

[Seattle1]

I noticed in the reporting on the Nova Scotia shooter, there was initially great confusion from the media reporting on his 'girlfriend'. However, when police issued an official statement they referred to her as his 'common law partner', so that's eventually how media reported it.

I think what is significant, from a legal point of view, is a common law partner lives in the home and has no other home. The person is not just a guest, so cannot leave when, for eg, the partner's children move in.

Thanks to all for the clarification regarding the Canadian provinces (Calgary) media references.

I also thought CMZ's personal reference to a fiance was for the same purpose or to prevent his current partner's absence when the children would be in his care.

I believe media in the States refrains from use of "common-law-spouse" because the laws for each state are different and where common-law-wife may infer (intended or not) the legal rights or obligations enjoyed by spouses or civil partners where allowed. In other words, not all states recognize "common law marriage."

A good example here is Jennifer Dulos of CT (missing and presumed dead). CT is not a community property state and also does not recognize common law marriage.

The Court granted Jennifer's request to order her estranged husband to keep his girlfriend, residing in their marital home with him, from being present during his visitation with their children.

Her estranged husband violated the order so many times that for this and other reasons he was eventually allowed only supervised visits.

 

[Satchie]

Thanks to all for the clarification regarding the Canadian provinces (Calgary) media references.

I also thought CMZ's personal reference to a fiance was for the same purpose or to prevent his current partner's absence when the children would be in his care.

I believe media in the States refrains from use of "common-law-spouse" because the laws for each state are different and where common-law-wife may infer (intended or not) the legal rights or obligations enjoyed by spouses or civil partners where allowed. In other words, not all states recognize "common law marriage."

A good example here is Jennifer Dulos of CT (missing and presumed dead). CT is not a community property state and also does not recognize common law marriage.

The Court granted Jennifer's request to order her estranged husband to keep his girlfriend, residing in their marital home with him, from being present during his visitation with their children.

Her estranged husband violated the order so many times that for this and other reasons he was eventually allowed only supervised visits.

I'm sure issues about new partners come up a lot in bitter divorce/ custody disputes, I guess a judge takes it one step at a time in assessing harm to children.

In any case, this order is about non-contact with anyone in the home where the children now live, so I think that's why she's included.

 

[MistyWaters]

Just wanted to add, anyone familiar with Calgary crime news will recognize the name of defence attorney, Balfour Der. He’s defended various high profile cases here, definitely not one who’s down there with the lowly ranking ambulance-chasers. I’d expect his services do not come cheaply.

Balfour Der, Q.C. – DER BARRISTERS | Calgary Criminal Defence Lawyers | Alberta
“Balfour Der has been described by the Calgary Herald as “arguably Calgary’s top defence counsel.” He has consistently received the preeminent 5 out of 5 peer rating from lawyers and the judiciary.
Balfour has been called upon to defend people from all walks of life including professional athletes, police officers, lawyers, soldiers, firefighters and politicians.”

 

[everybodhi]

Just wanted to add, anyone familiar with Calgary crime news will recognize the name of defence attorney, Balfour Der. He’s defended various high profile cases here, definitely not one who’s down there with the lowly ranking ambulance-chasers. I’d expect his services do not come cheaply.

Balfour Der, Q.C. – DER BARRISTERS | Calgary Criminal Defence Lawyers | Alberta
“Balfour Der has been described by the Calgary Herald as “arguably Calgary’s top defence counsel.” He has consistently received the preeminent 5 out of 5 peer rating from lawyers and the judiciary.
Balfour has been called upon to defend people from all walks of life including professional athletes, police officers, lawyers, soldiers, firefighters and politicians.”

I guess his fee doesn’t include a ride home
grandmother and aunt released from jail into freezing temperatures | Calgary Herald

 

[Seattle1]

I guess his fee doesn’t include a ride home
grandmother and aunt released from jail into freezing temperatures | Calgary Herald

Attorney's tale was unbelievable!! Glad I read the full story:

Solicitor General spokeswoman Katherine Thompson said telephones are provided to inmates when they’re being released.

“Telephones are available in the admit and discharge area, as is a telephone in the main lobby entrance where the inmate is released,” Thompson said in an email.

The release policy is jackets, toques and gloves are also provided to inmates with inadequate attire, she said.

 

[everybodhi]

Attorney's tale was unbelievable!! Glad I read the story:

Solicitor General spokeswoman Katherine Thompson said telephones are provided to inmates when they’re being released.

“Telephones are available in the admit and discharge area, as is a telephone in the main lobby entrance where the inmate is released,” Thompson said in an email.

The release policy is jackets, toques and gloves are also provided to inmates with inadequate attire, she said.

They should file a complaint. Lol

 

[MistyWaters]

I guess his fee doesn’t include a ride home
grandmother and aunt released from jail into freezing temperatures | Calgary Herald

No but it probably includes portraying his clients in a sympathetic light in the media. (Didn’t influence my opinion of them one bit.)

 

[Seattle1]

They should file a complaint. Lol

Cleaning up my coffee spit ....

 

[Ninja Bunny]

They should file a complaint. Lol

Hehehe!

I don’t believe a word the defendants or the mother say; proven liars AFAIC. Anything they say needs to be corroborated by a reliable 3rd party before I’d believe it.

 

[MistyWaters]

Interesting neither the grandfather nor JOZ were patiently awaiting for the two to be released from the Remand Centre after bail was granted considering they’d been away on their abduction since Match 12th. What’s a few hours, CZ had to wait six weeks to get his children back.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

I guess his fee doesn’t include a ride home
grandmother and aunt released from jail into freezing temperatures | Calgary Herald

They should file a complaint. Lol

: ) ...Or leave a bad review. I had no idea you could leave feedback for prisons, but I Googled the Calgary Remand Centre and found reviews for it. Average of 3.7 out of 5 stars.

One example from a former inmate:

‘Hated it. The food was awful and my room only had a view of more prison, I don't recommend this place to anyone and I hopefully won't be back. Also a dust pan went missing off the cleaning cart and we were all stripped searched for it, and worst of all I didn't even have a pillow for the first week I was there I had to wait until someone left so I could get one and I was cold all night they need to turn up the heat, how unwelcoming...’

Source of review— Google Maps

 

[Beans]

There’s something missing in this case I think. An important element of the story isn’t being told and none of it sits right with me at all. I can’t believe that it’s just all about a bitter woman in a difficult divorce situation who has somehow managed to convince not just one but two family members to do something unlawful while also potentially conspiring with a dodgy lawyer. It’s just doesn’t sit comfortably for me.

There’s an undercurrent of something else, but can’t put my finger on it. Maybe a religious element, maybe something else. I just don’t know. Sorry for the vague post, I’m just struggling to articulate whatever it is that I’m thinking here!

 

[SBops]

: ) ...Or leave a bad review. I had no idea you could leave feedback for prisons, but I Googled the Calgary Remand Centre and found reviews for it. Average of 3.7 out of 5 stars.

One example from a former inmate:

‘Hated it. The food was awful and my room only had a view of more prison, I don't recommend this place to anyone and I hopefully won't be back. Also a dust pan went missing off the cleaning cart and we were all stripped searched for it, and worst of all I didn't even have a pillow for the first week I was there I had to wait until someone left so I could get one and I was cold all night they need to turn up the heat, how unwelcoming...’

Source of review— Google Maps

Ha ha! I don't think that that will affect their bookings.

 

[Mystrywrtr62]

There’s something missing in this case I think. An important element of the story isn’t being told and none of it sits right with me at all. I can’t believe that it’s just all about a bitter woman in a difficult divorce situation who has somehow managed to convince not just one but two family members to do something unlawful while also potentially conspiring with a dodgy lawyer. It’s just doesn’t sit comfortably for me.

There’s an undercurrent of something else, but can’t put my finger on it. Maybe a religious element, maybe something else. I just don’t know. Sorry for the vague post, I’m just struggling to articulate whatever it is that I’m thinking here!

We will see - my gut says it is a bitter vindictive family that wants to keep the kids away from dad and a “new mom”. All evidence in court proceedings so far point that way IMO.

 

[Beans]

We will see - my gut says it is a bitter vindictive family that wants to keep the kids away from dad and a “new mom”. All evidence in court proceedings so far point that way IMO.

Yes, it does look that way but I struggle with the simplistic “they’re all just mad and bad” theme alongside what appears to be some quite efficient PR. One person being bitter and vindictive to this extreme would make sense but adding other family members makes me less certain. I think mistakes have been made and those mistakes may have spiralled out of control leading to other mistakes but I wonder how much of that is potentially down to sub par legal advice.

I don’t believe there’s a straight up innocent party and a straight up guilty party in this. I still think there’s a missing element.

 

[everybodhi]

Yes, it does look that way but I struggle with the simplistic “they’re all just mad and bad” theme alongside what appears to be some quite efficient PR. One person being bitter and vindictive to this extreme would make sense but adding other family members makes me less certain. I think mistakes have been made and those mistakes may have spiralled out of control leading to other mistakes but I wonder how much of that is potentially down to sub par legal advice.

I don’t believe there’s a straight up innocent party and a straight up guilty party in this. I still think there’s a missing element.

Yes, it does look that way but I struggle with the simplistic “they’re all just mad and bad” theme alongside what appears to be some quite efficient PR. One person being bitter and vindictive to this extreme would make sense but adding other family members makes me less certain. I think mistakes have been made and those mistakes may have spiralled out of control leading to other mistakes but I wonder how much of that is potentially down to sub par legal advice.

I don’t believe there’s a straight up innocent party and a straight up guilty party in this. I still think there’s a missing element.

If several judges, children’s services, the court ordered psychologist, two town’s departments of the RCMP, and now the jail, are all lying to set this family up to look bad for CZ to win custody, kidnapping children really isn’t that bad when you compare them to the Wagner family. At least everyone is still alive in this case but if I were the ex, I would be questioning where it ends and would be watching my back.
Speculating what’s next in their defense, if their RMCP complaint is being reviewed by a certain Commissioner, I guess we will know soon if he is in on it too.
As a crazy hypothetical aside, and using social media as PR, if my kid came home with blue powder on her nose I would suspect those powdered candy tubes which are everywhere and kid’s love, or paint, but perhaps I’m the naive one to not think RCMP cover for people giving children blue powder drugs.
Powder paint science and art

I wonder why they never went to their own doctor with their concerns, and an independent therapist?
That’s really weird to me. JMO