Found Safe Canada - O’Driscoll-Zak sisters, 2 & 5, abduction by aunt & grandmother, Cochrane, 12 Mar 2021

[Sillybilly]

Bumping ...

Sorry folks, the social media account containing a letter that was referred to, purportedly from one of the POI's, is not from an approved source. Posts referencing it have been removed.

Those with information are asked to call
Cochrane RCMP at 403-851-8000 or
Crime Stoppers at 1-800-222-8477.​

 

[Wendy101]

Is there a FB group created for this case? Please send me a message with the link, if there is one.

 

[otto]

The longer this goes on, the more I think the children are physically close to their mother. The grandmother and aunt would, at some point, put an end to two little girls crying "I want to see my mom" if the children were indeed deprived, and the adults cared about the children.

The 5 year old is obviously deprived of friends and routines, likely blaming herself for the situation, and the 2 year old has likely reverted in toilet training and developed nightmares. It's a terrible thing for anyone to deprive children of their parents.

 

[otto]

I've been curious whether the mother and children moved to the grandmother/grandparents (???) rural home near Cochrane in 2019 when the father initiated divorce proceedings. That could result in a close, nurturing relationship between children and grandmother. Given the grandmother's age of 68, it's possible that the aunt went along to help.

That also means that the abduction could have been in the works for the last 18 months.

 

[Ontario Mom]

The longer this goes on, the more I think the children are physically close to their mother. The grandmother and aunt would, at some point, put an end to two little girls crying "I want to see my mom" if the children were indeed deprived, and the adults cared about the children.

The 5 year old is obviously deprived of friends and routines, likely blaming herself for the situation, and the 2 year old has likely reverted in toilet training and developed nightmares. It's a terrible thing for anyone to deprive children of their parents.

Others here have asked about the "end game" and I just have to reiterate, where does grandma and auntie think this is going to go? Are they prepared to be fugitives from justice, forever? Never again use their real names or contact family? This is a terrible plan and the girls will suffer dearly for it.

Grandma and auntie need to come clean, turn the girls over and face what they've done, honestly and peacefully. That's the legacy the girls will read about 10 years from now when they're 15 and 12. When they google their own names, grandma's name, auntie's name... and this case of "that time they were kidnapped". And they will, no two ways about it.

jmo

 

[otto]

Others here have asked about the "end game" and I just have to reiterate, where does grandma and auntie think this is going to go? Are they prepared to be fugitives from justice, forever? Never again use their real names or contact family? This is a terrible plan and the girls will suffer dearly for it.

Grandma and auntie need to come clean, turn the girls over and face what they've done, honestly and peacefully. That's the legacy the girls will read about 10 years from now when they're 15 and 12. When they google their own names, grandma's name, auntie's name... and this case of "that time they were kidnapped". And they will, no two ways about it.

jmo

The end game, in my opinion, is to keep the children hidden until they are adults. Just because it involves a grandmother and aunt as abductors doesn't mean they didn't tap into organizations that assist with removing children from custodial parents.

I'm confident that there is at least one lawyer who could provide underground information to clients who think that abduction is the best option. The grandmother and aunt appear to be willing to sacrifice their lives for the mother who lost custody after interfering with children's best interests. Meanwhile, the mother can re-marry and have more children.

Agree that the children will begin looking for their parents as soon as they have access to a keyboard out of sight of their self-appointed guardians.

 

[otto]

Worst case scenario would be that RCMP storm a location and physically remove the children from their grandmother and aunt. That would severely traumatize the children, and RCMP are likely mindful of the consequences of taking action even if they know where the children are hidden.

Best option is for abductors to demonstrate compassion for the children; to put an end to their unsettled lives by returning them to their parents.

 

[goinganywhere]

An 'end game' I've considered is that they will come out of hiding if the case gets a new judge and they get to pick a judge that will let mom do whatever she wants and revoke dad's custody. Fat chance, but probably their end game, since they seem to be crying that the judge was corrupt or some nonsense.

They probably want a re-trial and won't quit until it goes their way.

 

[Marg from Oz]

Perhaps they have been living off the grid on their rural property for some time and the children will not notice anything different.MOO

 

[spangled]

I am shocked that they have still not been located. This has clearly been very well planned.

The mother must be having some communication, surely?!

 

[MistyWaters]

I am shocked that they have still not been located. This has clearly been very well planned.

The mother must be having some communication, surely?!

I agree, I think it was preplanned given over two weeks have gone by.

I beginning to even wonder what was the last date the grandmother, aunt and two children were seen by anyone other than JOZ?

Considering the outcome of prior court proceedings, the possibility the children might be removed by Child Protective Services had to have been looming as well, aside to the granting of custody to the dad. I don’t know for sure but I’d assume CPS action involving protection of children is determined behind closed doors without prior announcement.

It seems as if the mother acted as a sort of decoy. As she was around and about it would be assumed the children were still in her custody. In a sneaky move, instead it’s the grandmother and aunt who disappear....maybe days or weeks ago???

More speculation......could this be the reason the two haven’t been formally charged with abduction, if the children were taken with JOZs permission well before the Court Order granting full custody to the dad? I’m not suggesting they’re facing no charges at all as I’m sure there’s dozens that’ll fit the circumstances. I don’t know the legal interpretation of “abduction” but I’d assume it focuses on the circumstances during the act of the “taking” at the onset.

 

[Inthedetails]

I don’t know the legal interpretation of “abduction” but I’d assume it focuses on the circumstances during the act of the “taking” at the onset.

I wondered that too, that they might think they are not breaking the law if they took the girls before the actual judgement gave custody to the father.

But, the father NOW has legal custody and they are not turning over the kids to him, so that argument goes out the window, imo. They do not have legal custody of the girls.

jmo

 

[MistyWaters]

I wondered that too, that they might think they are not breaking the law if they took the girls before the actual judgement gave custody to the father.

But, the father NOW has legal custody and they are not turning over the kids to him, so that argument goes out the window, imo. They do not have legal custody of the girls.

jmo

Yes I agree but nowhere have I’ve noticed it being reported that abduction charges have been filed and a warrant has been issued for the arrest of the grandmother and aunt. The wording by the RCMP regarding a “possible abduction” is highly unusual - generally it either is or isn’t.

 

[otto]

Yes I agree but nowhere have I’ve noticed it being reported that abduction charges have been filed and a warrant has been issued for the arrest of the grandmother and aunt. The wording by the RCMP regarding a “possible abduction” is highly unusual - generally it either is or isn’t.

The abductors have not been charged at this time, but I'm pretty sure they will be when they are apprehended.

This describes the abduction as a criminal offence, and warns that those who assist will be criminally charged with aiding and abetting.

“Those assisting the O’Driscoll’s may believe they are acting in the best interests of the children, however those who assist in the commission of a criminal offence can be charged criminally with aiding and abetting.”
​

"Possible abduction" allows for the possibility that they went camping, have no access to news, and have no awareness that the children are considered "abducted." As soon as it is known that they are aware of the search for the children and chose to remain hidden, the word "possible" will be removed.

Cochrane RCMP believe suspects receiving aid in case of missing girls | Calgary Herald

 

[otto]

I wondered that too, that they might think they are not breaking the law if they took the girls before the actual judgement gave custody to the father.

But, the father NOW has legal custody and they are not turning over the kids to him, so that argument goes out the window, imo. They do not have legal custody of the girls.

jmo

It has been reported that the children were last seen at 9:30AM on the day that the father was awarded full custody. Court was at 10:00AM. That means the aunt and grandmother knew that a decision would be made that day, and that the children should be made available to their father in the event that he was awarded visitation, joint custody, or full custody.

I don't think it can be argued that, even though they knew there would be a decision, they expected that the mother would retain sole custody with no access to the father, therefore they chose to remain oblivious to news of the abduction.

 

[MistyWaters]

It has been reported that the children were last seen at 9:30AM on the day that the father was awarded full custody. Court was at 10:00AM. That means the aunt and grandmother knew that a decision would be made that day, and that the children should be made available to their father in the event that he was awarded visitation, joint custody, or full custody.

I don't think it can be argued that, even though they knew there would be a decision, they expected that the mother would retain sole custody with no access to the father, therefore they chose to remain oblivious to news of the abduction.

My question would be seen by who? The mother, just before she left for the hearing? Allegedly she also told the RCMP she doesn’t know where they are.

I’m thinking of current covid restrictions limiting separate households from interacting, there’s not a lot of opportunity to be “seen” by others right now.

It’s difficult to believe JOZ expected to be granted full custody with the fathers visitation or co-parenting revoked given what transpired regarding the prior court decisions on record.

 

[cocomod]

I have personally watched a mother believe that a child is "hers" and the dad shouldn't have rights. Then, she turns to everyone in her life and begins the task of maligning the father's name/reputation. I believe parental alienation is extremely harmful and horribly abusive to innocent children. Hate is not born in babies, parents create hatred in children unfortunately. I pray that these babies are found soon. With this much attention, IF the father really were that bad, I believe it would come out quickly before the children could be harmed by him. IMVHO

 

[otto]

It sounds like the mother attended court from home via electronic weblink at 9:30AM. That is when she last saw the children at her home.

"The children, along with their aunt and grandmother were last seen at 9:30 a.m. Friday at the children's mother’s home in Cochrane and police are treating their disappearance as a criminal matter."
​

2 Alberta children believed abducted by grandmother and aunt, RCMP investigating

"Webex continues to be the default mode of hearing for all matters except trials, and jury selection. In person testimony in the courtroom may also be allowed by the Justice in certain circumstances, for example, where in person testimony is needed to adequately assess credibility, physical distancing can be maintained and court resources are available."

"Family Matters: All family matters in Edmonton and Calgary for which parties seek some sort of relief now must move through the Family Docket Court by way of Webex"​

FAQ

Correction regarding time that court starts:

"Effective August 4, 2020, Family Docket Court in Edmonton and Calgary will commence at 9:30 a.m. to enable more matters to be heard by the presiding triage Justice."
​

News & Announcements

 

[Seattle1]

I agree, I think it was preplanned given over two weeks have gone by.

I beginning to even wonder what was the last date the grandmother, aunt and two children were seen by anyone other than JOZ?

Considering the outcome of prior court proceedings, the possibility the children might be removed by Child Protective Services had to have been looming as well, aside to the granting of custody to the dad. I don’t know for sure but I’d assume CPS action involving protection of children is determined behind closed doors without prior announcement.

It seems as if the mother acted as a sort of decoy. As she was around and about it would be assumed the children were still in her custody. In a sneaky move, instead it’s the grandmother and aunt who disappear....maybe days or weeks ago???

More speculation......could this be the reason the two haven’t been formally charged with abduction, if the children were taken with JOZs permission well before the Court Order granting full custody to the dad? I’m not suggesting they’re facing no charges at all as I’m sure there’s dozens that’ll fit the circumstances. I don’t know the legal interpretation of “abduction” but I’d assume it focuses on the circumstances during the act of the “taking” at the onset.

We know CMZ asked for relief from the case manager (Judge) at December 15 hearing but she did not grant any request and made no court orders based on assurances from the mother JOZ that she would cooperate with the court-appointed reunification therapist, and the case manager was to wait on an update report due early February.

It seems that any assurances by JOZ must have failed and where approximately 45 days later the children were ordered removed from JOZ's care.

I think the contempt orders and court appeals by JOZ all served to buy more time for the "end- game plan" that was longtime in the works -- probably since summer 2019. MOO

 

[Seattle1]

I have personally watched a mother believe that a child is "hers" and the dad shouldn't have rights. Then, she turns to everyone in her life and begins the task of maligning the father's name/reputation. I believe parental alienation is extremely harmful and horribly abusive to innocent children. Hate is not born in babies, parents create hatred in children unfortunately. I pray that these babies are found soon. With this much attention, IF the father really were that bad, I believe it would come out quickly before the children could be harmed by him. IMVHO

Two courts previously ruled parental alienation was a fact in the matter of the O'Driscoll-Zak children.