Canada - Remains of children found at former residential schools in Canada, May 2021

[altojack]

I accidentally came to this Thread, my first thoughts? WHAT? I'm near the end of first page but I'll catch up.

My heart breaks, I feel in disbelief yet I have read of other residential schools in other Countries where children went missing.

To think that this was still going on in recent times is disgusting to say the least. I can't read anymore tonight, as I can barely see the words on the page, but the children and their families deserve Justice in some form for sure.

 

[LadyL]

I accidentally came to this Thread, my first thoughts? WHAT? I'm near the end of first page but I'll catch up.

My heart breaks, I feel in disbelief yet I have read of other residential schools in other Countries where children went missing.

To think that this was still going on in recent times is disgusting to say the least. I can't read anymore tonight, as I can barely see the words on the page, but the children and their families deserve Justice in some form for sure.

there's lots in Canada
there is graveyard of 751 children just found

 

[altojack]

there's lots in Canada
there is graveyard of 751 children just found

OMG yes, I came across this online this morning. Honestly my head doesn't know if it's inside out or what! I can't take it in that priests could do this to children. It's probably why I feel so disgusted about this heinous crime.

I saw a wiki type image of Canada and showing all the Residential schools. Makes me feel even sicker, more in terror of how many more will turn up and where.

 

[altojack]

Link I found yesterday, may be of interest.


Residential Schools in Canada Interactive Map | The Canadian Encyclopedia

 

[JMapes]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/brit...onary-of-oblates-of-mary-immaculate-1.6078260

The Catholic religious order that operated residential schools in Saskatchewan and British Columbia where hundreds of unmarked graves have been found has made a formal "commitment to transparency" to disclose all historical documents in its possession that are related to the schools.

The religious group had previously said it would release records pertaining to the institution in Kamloops, but Thursday's statement marked a "formal commitment" to "disclose and not block access" to records from all schools with which it was involved.

Chief Bobby Cameron with the Federation of Sovereign Indigenous Nations (FSIN) noted the oblates had promised in the past to release records pertaining to residential schools they'd operated.

But those promises never yielded results and Cameron reiterated his calls for all organizations associated with residential schools in Canada to release records and information about them on Friday.

Cameron said he was sick and tired of waiting, adding that privacy laws, which the oblates' statement cited as a possible challenge to releasing residential school records, were "nonsense."

"There was no privacy when all those priests and nuns were doing this to our young children, there was no privacy then," he said.

"There's no privacy. What there is, though, is more truth to be uncovered. More truth to be told of what really went on."

Cameron said if the oblates don't release every record available, or prolong the record releasing process, the FSIN would look at possible legal actions it can take to ensure documents are made available.

(More at link)
______________

Support is available for anyone affected by the lingering effects of residential school and those who are triggered by the latest reports.

A national Indian Residential School Crisis Line has been set up to provide support for residential school survivors and others affected. People can access emotional and crisis referral services by calling the 24-hour national crisis line: 1-866-925-4419.

 

[FOXINBOX]

Such a tragedy, will it never end? It seems no nation or nationality is spared these dreadful crimes, they are perpetrated everywhere on all classes of children, and have been, forever.

If nobody's mentioned it on here, Dickens wrote about Dotheboys Hall school in Nicholas Nickelby. The headmaster, Wackford Squeers takes in unwanted children (The illegitimate, the crippled, the deformed) for a high fee, and starves and mistreats them while pocketing the money sent by parents and guardians who want to dispose of a "burden". Yorkshire boarding schools had been disposing of unwanted children for over a century by the time Dickens wrote the novel, which he based on true cases. 36 poor little souls in one churchyard, and those of course were the ones whose "Guardians" had coughed up for a funeral. The others just disappeared.

It got me thinking about why, why does it continue? Why is it so widespread?
What seems to be necessary in all these dreadful crimes are 4 things
i) The children are deemed to be an underclass. Some sort of "problem" to those in authority.
ii) They are isolated from family and mainstream society.
iii) Money. The children are usually seen by the offenders as a cash asset.
iv) A total lack of accountability on the part of the offenders to any authority.

I just hope and pray that at least these revelations are the last, although I have little confidence. How does one offer condolences on this scale? I'm at a loss to know.

 

[Cryptic]

OMG yes, I came across this online this morning. Honestly my head doesn't know if it's inside out or what! I can't take it in that priests could do this to children. It's probably why I feel so disgusted about this heinous crime.

There are no indications of mass murder. The school operated from 1890 to 1974.

This included periods before vaccines, comprehensive free medical treatment, guaranteed nutrition programs etc. etc. It also included a periods of two world wars and a global economic depression. There was a far higher mortality rate for children between say, 1890 and 1940 than there was today.

Any mortality rate was going to be compounded by an economic depression which could well have resulted in long term nutritional deficits compounding any illnesses.

Likewise, though no fighting occurred during either world war in Canada, the wars mobilized large number of men and could well have resulted in rising food prices- which would endanger people on the margin far more than the wealthy.

In short, what needs to be examined is:

-Whether the average mortality rate at the school exceeded the mortality rate of the population as a whole for the years that the school operated?

- Likewise, if so, how much did the mortality rate exceed the general population?

- What was the child mortality rate during those years for poorer whites?

Those questions are going to need far greater research than what is in the article.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

There are no indications of mass murder. The school operated from 1890 to 1974.

This included periods before vaccines, comprehensive free medical treatment, guaranteed nutrition programs etc. etc. It also included a periods of two world wars and a global economic depression. There was a far higher mortality rate for children between say, 1890 and 1940 than there was today.

Any mortality rate was going to be compounded by an economic depression which could well have resulted in long term nutritional deficits compounding any illnesses.

Likewise, though no fighting occurred during either world war in Canada, the wars mobilized large number of men and could well have resulted in rising food prices- which would endanger people on the margin far more than the wealthy.

In short, what needs to be examined is:

-Whether the average mortality rate at the school exceeded the mortality rate of the population as a whole for the years that the school operated?

- Likewise, if so, how much did the mortality rate exceed the general population?

- What was the child mortality rate during those years for poorer whites?

Those questions are going to need far greater research than what is in the article.

Your questions (ETA: my opinion only, no offence intended) are ignoring the survivors and whistleblower physician who have testified to abduction of the children from their families, abuse, and inhumane conditions that in part exacerbated any epidemic the population as a whole may have been facing at the time, as well as systemic cultural genocide.

There can be no good reason that the “school’s” records indicate a fraction of deaths compared to the number of remains they have found so far, and the estimate of the more than 5000 missing.

ETA: My view only.

 

[altojack]

There are no indications of mass murder. The school operated from 1890 to 1974.

This included periods before vaccines, comprehensive free medical treatment, guaranteed nutrition programs etc. etc. It also included a periods of two world wars and a global economic depression. There was a far higher mortality rate for children between say, 1890 and 1940 than there was today.

Any mortality rate was going to be compounded by an economic depression which could well have resulted in long term nutritional deficits compounding any illnesses.

Likewise, though no fighting occurred during either world war in Canada, the wars mobilized large number of men and could well have resulted in rising food prices- which would endanger people on the margin far more than the wealthy.

In short, what needs to be examined is:

-Whether the average mortality rate at the school exceeded the mortality rate of the population as a whole for the years that the school operated?

- Likewise, if so, how much did the mortality rate exceed the general population?

- What was the child mortality rate during those years for poorer whites?

Those questions are going to need far greater research than what is in the article.

I don't recall me mentioning mass murder at this particular school. However, I'm already on it so to speak, following the school history, thank you.

 

[Cryptic]

Your questions (ETA: my opinion only, no offence intended) are ignoring the survivors and whistleblower physician who have testified to abduction of the children from their families, abuse, and inhumane conditions that in part exacerbated any epidemic the population as a whole may have been facing at the time, as well as systemic cultural genocide.

I am not ignoring those issues.

But..... the investigation should start with a good statistical analysis to determine if there were statistically excess deaths (assuming things in any investigation is simply not a good starting point).

The statistical analysis will probably be complex due to the fact that the school operated for 80 or so years.

For example, how many deaths occurred during the global Spanish Flue pandemic immediately after WWI? Did WWI lead to increased food prices that could have compounded the death rate at the school?

If that question is answered "yes", then the next question should be "how excessive"? This will then serve as the groundwork to address the issues you raise.

 

[FOXINBOX]

Although I get the point about the statistical analysis, one immediate question is: How many of the graves were clandestine? - it's often a good indicator that a crime has been committed if something so serious has been kept secret.

 

[Cryptic]

How many of the graves were clandestine?

Like whether or not the death rate exceeded the national norm, the answer to that question is going to take some research due to the number of years the school operated.

For example what would constitute a clandestine burial in say, 1960 (death certificate not obtained etc) may not constitute a clandestine burial in say, 1898 when such paperwork may, or may not have been required for any Canadian.

Likewise, the research is going to need to examine whether or not laws governing burials or the recording of deaths may have been suspended during say, the Spanish Influenza Pandemic.

But.... the good news is that information needed for the research can be obtained. It is just going to take more time and needs to be far more in depth than the article.

 

[Sillybilly]

182 human remains in unmarked graves found at site of former residential school in Cranbrook, B.C.


The Lower Kootenay Band confirmed Wednesday that ground-penetrating radar revealed 182 human remains in unmarked graves at the site of the old St. Eugene’s Mission Residential School in Cranbrook, B.C.

 

[Cryptic]

There can be no good reason that the “school’s” records indicate a fraction of deaths compared to the number of remains they have found so far, and the estimate of the more than 5000 missing.

There is a one possible good reasons to account for a certain number of the missing.

I believe than an estimated 150,000 children passed through the school. In all probability, some of the youths ran away from, or escaped from the schools for good reasons.

A certain number of these youths may have been equally reluctant to return home- also for good reasons. Indigenous youth are no more, and no less likely to have unpleasant home conditions than any other ethnic group.

I believe 150,000 students were sent to the various schools in the course of their operations. A run "double runaway" (from school and home) rate of 3% would come close to 5,000.

This possibility could be examined by a statistical running the names of the missing through national death certificates, marriage certificates, social security and say, military service records.

Fortunately, Canada probably has pretty good records, espescialy as the 20th century progressed. This will help any study that results in any conclusion.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

I am not ignoring those issues.

But..... the investigation should start with a good statistical analysis to determine if there were statistically excess deaths (assuming things in any investigation is simply not a good starting point).

The statistical analysis will probably be complex due to the fact that the school operated for 80 or so years.

For example, how many deaths occurred during the global Spanish Flue pandemic immediately after WWI? Did WWI lead to increased food prices that could have compounded the death rate at the school?

If that question is answered "yes", then the next question should be "how excessive"? This will then serve as the groundwork to address the issues you raise.

There is a one possible good reasons to account for a certain number of the missing.

I believe than an estimated 150,000 children passed through the school. In all probability, some of the youths ran away from, or escaped from the schools for good reasons.

A certain number of these youths may have been equally reluctant to return home- also for good reasons. Indigenous youth are no more, and no less likely to have unpleasant home conditions than any other ethnic group.

I believe 150,000 students were sent to the various schools in the course of their operations. A run "double runaway" (from school and home) rate of 3% would come close to 5,000.

This possibility could be examined by a statistical running the names of the missing through national death certificates, marriage certificates, social security and say, military service records.

Fortunately, Canada probably has pretty good records, espescialy as the 20th century progressed. This will help any study that results in any conclusion.

This is painfully, woefully, a form of misinformation. ETA: In my opinion.

There is a wealth of information available to everyone on Canadian soil and elsewhere.

ETA: A good place to start— The Final Report of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission of Canada

I’ve linked it below.

There has been an investigation, with over 7000 surviving witnesses, evidence, records...based on this they are finding remains. Indigenous people believe there may be more than 5000 missing children.

Facts:

The Truth and Reconciliation Commission of Canada’s “Missing Children and Unmarked Burials Project” is a systematic effort to record and analyze the deaths at the schools, and the presence and condition of student cemeteries,
within the regulatory context in which the schools were intended to operate. The proj- ect’s research supports the following conclusions:
• The Commission has identified 3,200 deaths on the Truth and Reconciliation Commission’s Register of Confirmed Deaths of Named Residential School Students and the Register of Confirmed Deaths of Unnamed Residential School Students.
• For just under one-third of these deaths (32%), the government and the schools did not record the name of the student who died.
• For just under one-quarter of these deaths (23%), the government and the schools did not record the gender of the student who died.
• For just under one-half of these deaths (49%), the government and the schools did not record the cause of death.
• Aboriginal children in residential schools died at a far higher rate than school- aged children in the general population.
• For most of the history of the schools, the practice was not to send the bodies of students who died at schools to their home communities.
• For the most part, the cemeteries that the Commission documented are aban- doned, disused, and vulnerable to accidental disturbance.
• The federal government never established an adequate set of standards and reg- ulations to guarantee the health and safety of residential school students.
• The federal government never adequately enforced the minimal standards and regulations that it did establish.
• The failure to establish and enforce adequate regulations was largely a function of the government’s determination to keep residential school costs to a minimum.

2 • Truth & Reconciliation Commission
• The failure to establish and enforce adequate standards, coupled with the failure to adequately fund the schools, resulted in unnecessarily high death rates at res- idential schools.
http://caid.ca/TRCFinVol42015.pdf

 

[LadyL]

Peace Tower flag to remain at half-mast on Canada Day: Trudeau

 

[Cryptic]

This is painfully, woefully, a form of misinformation. ETA: In my opinion.

http://caid.ca/TRCFinVol42015.pdf

I dont really see where the "misinformation" claim comes from.

I stated that a detailed statistical study needed to be conducted and that some of the missing may have ran away from both the schools and home.

You supplied evidence that a detailed statistical study has been done. I can accept the study and don't contest it.

 

[Sillybilly]

These children were not removed from unpleasant home conditions .. "Indian agents" ripped them away from their parents and others who loved them. They didn't run away from homes, but some did run away from the horrors at the schools themselves.

From what I've seen, there were records with names of children who entered the residential school system. They knew the names and where they came from. At minimum, a notification to their families should have been made, as opposed to little human bodies, the bodies of beautiful little children being stuck into the damn ground, an unknown grave without even a marker with their name on it, and no loved ones present to grieve for them or honour them.

I do not have native ancestry but I have grandchildren who do, and who have been severely affected by both the resulting generational dysfunction and trauma, and now these recent discoveries. No matter how much self-esteem I have encouraged through the years, these latest discoveries are all just a horrific reminder of how the blood of their ancestors somehow makes some people perceive them as lesser human beings. They grew up being told that long houses were evil, medicine bags were evil, natives were evil, being called horrible names by even some of their adoptive and extended non-native family members. And even when others don't perceive them that way, the hurt in the heart is so great due to how they subconsciously view themselves.

Maybe some day the trauma will diminish and shed tears will dry. Although my brain tells me I didn't have a part in this, my heart feels grief and shame and I am no longer staunchly proud to brag that I am Canadian.

Her name was Nellie.
Rest in Peace little Nellie.​

 

[LadyL]

WHY I MARCHED: Voices from London's Canada Day healing walk | London Free Press

An estimated crowd of 10,000 gathered for a Canada Day march in downtown London to mourn the Indigenous victims of Canada's residential school system. (DEREK RUTTAN, The London Free Press)

 

[tarabull]

Defaced: Red handprints appear on Red Deer’s ghost statues - Red Deer Advocate