Canada - Robert White for building dungeon in kidnap plot, Pickering, Ont, 2011

[tarabull]

My best guess is that the entrance to the basement is through that padlocked door at the back of the house....shown at around the 1 minute mark in this video:

http://www.thestar.com/VideoZone2/embed/1105105?width=600&height=450

eta: The original basement entrance would have been like this back in the day

[COLOR="red"]http://www.nationalenergyaudits.com/images/cellardoor.jpg[/COLOR]

That is until that shed type wooden addtion was added on the back of the house.

As for the room itself, a false wall is a possibility.

Quoting myself just to clarify I mean thru the padlocked doors outlined in red in the attached photo would be the stairs leading to the basement door, that long ago would have been covered by doors in the red link above.

:waitasec:

i'm not sure this even helps. sorry.

 

[Dewey2Me1MoThyme]

Quoting myself just to clarify I mean thru the padlocked doors outlined in red in the attached photo would be the stairs leading to the basement door, that long ago would have been covered by doors in the red link above.

:waitasec:

i'm not sure this even helps. sorry.

You could be right, I thought it looked like an attached barn or garage. Many older homes had what they called a "doghouse" entrance to basements which was a triangular shaped wall either side of the basement steps with the door(s) as the roof. One reason for that design was basements were also used as root cellars, and tractor could back up and pour the winters supply of root vegetables and potatoes down the steps where they would later be stored in bins and barrels.
I'll have to go back over some of the other views of the house and see if I can see one.

 

[ynotdivein]

Yeah I caught that too...I am also confused about the doors, it is very hard to tell from the 2 second video clips. Could the picture of the door on the right be a picture of the door from outside the chamber? As for freshly painted, while one part of the room looked white and clean, the back part of it looked filthy, off white, and appeared as if it hadn't been painted in a while.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/story/2012/01/06/confinement-room-house-fire.html

- @ 28 seconds: Female newscaster: "... but police say secrets and key evidence burned here too"

- Pickering Police Sgt. Nancy Van Rooy: "Here we are at this location with a criminal and ongoing active investigation and suddenly that structure, its contents and that evidence is gone, so yes it's suspicious."

So I very much wonder what if anything was left of the room after the fire?

 

[Saabfrk]

I hate to think that if the person who built the 'Dungeon' came back to torch the house, they most likely would of started it in that room to destroy every bit of evidence.

 

[Dewey2Me1MoThyme]

I'm very interested in hearing what they learned from the glass. I think that may be their key piece(s) of evidence. I worked in a glass factory in Midland many years ago, and glass is tempered at different temperatures and means for different applications. This glass seems to have been made for a very specific reason if it was that hard to break. They should be able to contact the manufacturer and find out how many companies had ordered that glass in the area, then narrow down from there who may have had access to it. This was not by all accounts we've heard, your random piece of glass.

 

[ynotdivein]

Dewey, from the pictures, do you think it was glass block? That's the only kind of glass window covering I can think of that you couldn't get through even with a crowbar...

 

[mysteriew]

- @ 28 seconds: Female newscaster: "... but police say secrets and key evidence burned here too"

- Pickering Police Sgt. Nancy Van Rooy: "Here we are at this location with a criminal and ongoing active investigation and suddenly that structure, its contents and that evidence is gone, so yes it's suspicious."

So I very much wonder what if anything was left of the room after the fire?

That just makes me wonder about that LE. If there was "key evidence" there, if it was thought to be a crime scene, why wasn't it either processed or guarded by LE, to protect the evidence? I'm actually surprised that they didn't at least have some type of survellience cameras set up on the home after it hit the media. Just in case someone came back to it.

Burning the home to me is additional evidence though. If done by the person who built the room, then they really felt there was evidence there that might get them in a lot of trouble. More than they would get for arson.
It shows that a local is most likely involved. Someone close enough to be aware of the discovery and close enough to observe that the home wasn't being guarded.

 

[Thyme]

“There have been three arsons in this tiny stretch of road in the last couple of years and all of them were scheduled for demolition,” Delaney said.

http://m.torontosun.com/2012/01/06/blaze-destroys-pickering-dungeon-farmhouse?noimage=true

'Tis a helluva lot cheaper to burn down buildings than to demolish them. Look to the money. Na..they would never do that...right??

 

[06062323]

That just makes me wonder about that LE. If there was "key evidence" there, if it was thought to be a crime scene, why wasn't it either processed or guarded by LE, to protect the evidence? I'm actually surprised that they didn't at least have some type of survellience cameras set up on the home after it hit the media. Just in case someone came back to it.

Burning the home to me is additional evidence though. If done by the person who built the room, then they really felt there was evidence there that might get them in a lot of trouble. More than they would get for arson.
It shows that a local is most likely involved. Someone close enough to be aware of the discovery and close enough to observe that the home wasn't being guarded.

I have been wondering about this all along as well...LE seems so sure that this is in fact a confinement room and not something more innocent yet they somehow failed to effectively monitor the property at the time of the arson (not to say there was absolutely no surveillance but the fact that they dont know who torched it suggests that whatever they were doing wasnt quite enough). Im hoping that LE is playing dumb for the media and knows a lot more than they are letting on.

As for the glass, Im not a chemistry expert but is there a type of plexiglass that Is strong enough to withstand a hit from a crowbar? I know plexiglass scratches easily but is very strong.

 

[Saabfrk]

“There have been three arsons in this tiny stretch of road in the last couple of years and all of them were scheduled for demolition,” Delaney said.

http://m.torontosun.com/2012/01/06/blaze-destroys-pickering-dungeon-farmhouse?noimage=true

'Tis a helluva lot cheaper to burn down buildings than to demolish them. Look to the money. Na..they would never do that...right??

It's sad to think that the government would be doing this but I kinda believe it. Regarding the comment about the suspect being a local...that would be the next thing to look at if you rule the government torching the place. The Golfcourse employees would be the most suspicious in my opinion.

It's scary considering I live about 20 minutes away from this. I have seen alot of these abandoned houses in the pickering-ajax area go to crap. It truly is sad.

 

[matou]

I also heard that there is an airport that was supposed to be built in the area. Hmmmmm But this would be a coincidence with a dungeon being built. Strange.

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pickering_Airport"]Pickering Airport - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

 

[Dewey2Me1MoThyme]

Dewey, from the pictures, do you think it was glass block? That's the only kind of glass window covering I can think of that you couldn't get through even with a crowbar...

Good point, I had not even thought of glass block! When I worked at Lowes' we sold it in, I believe, 8" sqs but it may be available in other sizes.

 

[tarabull]

I also heard that there is an airport that was supposed to be built in the area. Hmmmmm But this would be a coincidence with a dungeon being built. Strange.

Pickering Airport - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

That's right another interational airport for the GTA...

Hence the name of the group LAND OVER LANDINGS...

as in landing strips....

also snipped...

...Delaney, with Land Over Landings, a group that wants to protect the land and buildings in the area, said the farmhouse was a heritage site.

http://www.landoverlandings.com/issues.html

eta: http://www.landoverlandings.com/articles1.html

IIRC, there was also a book written back when the talks started about making way - it was called "FROM PATHS TO PLANES".....

Plenty of people affected, many many homesteads over the 18600 hectares of small towns and farmlands.

MANY meetings, and protest and even marches...

There is a timeline detailed here:

http://www.landoverlandings.com/history.html

snipped...

1972
January – A rushed study of Pickering environment is done in seventy-two hours, in the snow.

March 1 – Federal-provincial agreement is signed. Pickering is to be the site.

March 2 – The North Pickering Development Project, declaring the expropriation of 18,600 acres for an airport and a further 25,000 acres for a city to the south, known as Cedarwood, is announced jointly by Ottawa and Ontario. The site is described as “ideal”, and presented as the logical choice after elimination from a list of 59 possibilities – neglecting to mention that it was never on the original list.

March 3 – Protestors meet at Melody Farm (Ever Green Villa, original home of Eli Barclay). People or Planes is born.
March 6 – Pickering Township passes resolution protesting site....

[there's plenty more at the link, including photos of protesting]

photos here: http://www.landoverlandings.com/webgalleries/peopleplanes/people_index.html

 

[dotr]

I wonder why they would leave a window in at all, why not just block it too?
Also wondering if whoever burned down the other houses slated for demolition, was just continuing in that vein, perhaps oblivious to the dungeon in that particular house. Or the "arsonist" or his/her "boss", worried that an investigation would hold up whatever plans have been made for the land...

 

[OldSteve]

Any mention of electricity in the house? I imagine it would have been turned off. If a generator was used, it would make noise.
So many questions.
Why would someone spend the money to build in a building they didn't own, and was under some kind of surveillance.
Ever see a case where someone has built a dungeon that they did not live very close by to?
Where was building material purchased? Some has got to be traceable.
Has any satellite images of the area been checked?
Any evidence of bodies buried in surrounding area?

 

[dotr]

Any mention of electricity in the house? I imagine it would have been turned off. If a generator was used, it would make noise.
So many questions.
Why would someone spend the money to build in a building they didn't own, and was under some kind of surveillance.
Ever see a case where someone has built a dungeon that they did not live very close by to?
Where was building material purchased? Some has got to be traceable.
Has any satellite images of the area been checked?
Any evidence of bodies buried in surrounding area?

This uid was found some years ago not too far away...
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=120092&highlight=Bowmanville

 

[matou]

Why did Transport Canada inspect the home in 2010?

The home itself had last been inspected by Transport Canada in November 2010, but the mysterious room did not exist at that time.


http://www.thestar.com/news/article...s-dungeon-room-destroyed-in-fire?bn=1#article

 

[Dewey2Me1MoThyme]

Why did Transport Canada inspect the home in 2010?

The home itself had last been inspected by Transport Canada in November 2010, but the mysterious room did not exist at that time.


http://www.thestar.com/news/article...s-dungeon-room-destroyed-in-fire?bn=1#article

Did Transport Canada own the land but gave the house over to Landings Over Lands? I wonder if they have the responsibility to make sure the house is not going to fall down on someone or being used illicitly since they may own the grounds it sits on. Good question.

 

[matou]

The land is owned by the federal govt. and here is Transport Canada's website. I can't find anything about them involved in checking homes. They do their own environmental assessments,etc.

http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/programs/environment-em-index.htm

 

[Dewey2Me1MoThyme]

Could it have been an audit thing?