GUILTY Canada - Sammy Yatim, 18, fatally shot by Toronto LE, 27 July 2013

[matou]

I wonder if Yatim wanted police to shoot him i.e. suicide by cop? Didn't he ask someone to call police before all of this happened?

 

[bluesneakers]

I wonder if Yatim wanted police to shoot him i.e. suicide by cop? Didn't he ask someone to call police before all of this happened?

I don't think that's what it was. I think he wanted to call the police because he was freaking out and afraid (due to the drugs is my guess). He was having some personal problems but afaik no mental illness or suicide attempts, and no history of violence.

This was before he got on the streetcar:

Sampogna said his interaction with Yatim began when the teen came up to him on the lowest level of the Dundas subway station and asked twice for the nearest exit, which the janitor pointed out.

After shuffling back and forth, Yatim then asked if Sampogna had a phone, to which the janitor replied he didn't, but suggested Yatim use a payphone or ask someone else, court heard.

Yatim stepped away once more and then returned to ask if Sampogna had any change -- the janitor said he didn't.

"He took a few steps, came back and put his hand in his backpack, he started to shake,"

"He started shaking, mostly his hands, and he said 'call the police, call the police."'

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/yatim-forcillo-shooting-1.3318307

 

[Woodland]

"He wore the uniform of a police officer but he did not act like a police officer."

"It is wrong to say Sammy Yatim got himself shot," said Rupic. "It was not necessary and it was not reasonable for the defendant Forcillo to shoot the young man."

http://www.cp24.com/news/crown-calls-toronto-cop-forcillo-a-hothead-and-a-bully-1.2727935

I thought Rupic's closing address covered everything very well - looking forward to a guilty verdict.

 

[tarabull]

Snipped...

...Among our many responsibilities, our highest duty is to preserve the lives of the citizens that we have sworn to serve and protect. It is a commitment made by every member of our Service.

Whenever danger threatens, it is the duty of police officers to move towards that danger, to place ourselves between the threat and the people we protect, to do everything reasonably within our power to protect the vulnerable and to preserve life.

Among the most vulnerable people in our society, are those that are experiencing mental health issues requiring urgent care or because they are otherwise experiencing a mental or emotional crisis involving behaviour that is sufficiently erratic, threatening or dangerous that the police are called in order to protect the person in crisis or those around them.

Read more: https://www.torontopolice.on.ca/community/statementofcommitment.php

 

[tarabull]

"He wore the uniform of a police officer but he did not act like a police officer."

"It is wrong to say Sammy Yatim got himself shot," said Rupic. "It was not necessary and it was not reasonable for the defendant Forcillo to shoot the young man."

http://www.cp24.com/news/crown-calls-toronto-cop-forcillo-a-hothead-and-a-bully-1.2727935

I thought Rupic's closing address covered everything very well - looking forward to a guilty verdict.

Also snipped...

...Rupic also accused Forcillo's lawyer of attempt to "distract" the jury by calling emotional testimony from a woman on the streetcar who was sitting near Yatim when he swiped his knife towards her.

"The defendant simply did not know anything about what happened at the rear of the streetcar, and it therefore did not affect his decision to shoot."

:crazy:

 

[bluesneakers]

"He wore the uniform of a police officer but he did not act like a police officer."

"It is wrong to say Sammy Yatim got himself shot," said Rupic. "It was not necessary and it was not reasonable for the defendant Forcillo to shoot the young man."

http://www.cp24.com/news/crown-calls-toronto-cop-forcillo-a-hothead-and-a-bully-1.2727935

I thought Rupic's closing address covered everything very well - looking forward to a guilty verdict.

Me too. How long do you think it will take?

 

[Woodland]

Guessing the judge's directive to the jury is this am (unless it has already happened) and deliberations beginning sometime later today.

Imo they will be very thorough since he's a cop - will guess minimum 2 days - but also guess many jurors will have some semblance of their decision after listening to Rupic. The defense was weak - no way to justify this act.

 

[bluesneakers]

Police testimony not reliable, prosecutor tells Forcillo's streetcar shooting trial

The Crown prosecutor at the second-degree murder trial of Toronto police Const. James Forcillo told the jury Friday that police witnesses "tried to pull the wool over your eyes" to protect their colleague.

Milan Rupic made the comments this morning during closing arguments.
...

Rupic also cautioned the jury about how much weight to give the testimony of police witnesses, warning that as Forcillo's colleagues, they are biased to speak favourably about a fellow officer.
..

Rupic reminded the jury that Fleckeisen admitted she based some of her testimony during the preliminary hearing on a printout from a police computer,not on what she actually heard over the police radio on the night of the shooting.

...
Rupic pointed out that Pravica wrote in his police notes that Yatim tried to stand up and come forward after he'd been shot, when in fact he remained still on the floor of the streetcar.

 

[Woodland]

Find myself really amazed and very happy with Rupic - he really got to the core value on how policing in Canada should be and should not be. He is truly speaking on acceptable behavior by LE - hoping the jury feels the same - for themselves and others.

All jmo.

 

[Hatfield]

I thought this was an interesting read; giving some reason as to why only one charge was laid, when the Crown generally includes less serious offences with the serious offence charge:





http://www.thestar.com/news/insight/2013/08/23/sammy_yatim_murder_charge_perplexes_defence_bar.html

I was reading back to learn a little more about this case since it is new to me.

I was wondering if the jury has any alternatives if they don't agree it was 2nd degree murder but maybe something else like manslaughter.

It seems there is no alternative for them but to either say guilty or not guilty of 2nd degree murder.

JMO but I think it may have been wise for the DA to include a secondary alternative in this case. In case the jury doesn't think the officer's actions rose to the level of 2nd degree murder. It may have been good to have like a manslaughter alternative if jury struggles with the 2nd degree part.

The other thing that surprised me is one of the articles spoke of hearing 9 shots and it sounded like the officer may not have been the only officer shooting at the kid. So the Jury may struggle with that part too.

Because if it is true that there was another officer shooting at the boy then who is to say which officer's bullets actually killed him. What if it was the other officers bullets that was the fatal one that hit near his heart or something along those lines.

Just trying to put myself in the juries shoes and these are the types of things they may be thinking about.

This is going to be an interesting verdict. I think it could go either way.

 

[Woodland]

The death of Sammy Yatim occurred early in the morning of July 27, 2013 (shortly after midnight), in Toronto, Ontario, Canada. Yatim, an 18-year-old Toronto man armed with a knife, was shot at nine times, and was hit by eight of the shots fired by 30-year-old Toronto Police Service officer James Forcillo. He later died from the injuries.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Sammy_Yatim

Forcillo was the only person that fired a gun at SY.

Pretty sure the Crown can retry if this trial results in a hung jury. Fwiw, I get no alternative to 2nd degree murder here - imo this will cement, or not, the question 'can we have cops running around shooting people because they have a badge' - overriding the existing rules for use of lethal force.

Hopefully Rupic is looking for a yes or a no, not an acquittal.

 

[Woodland]

Referring to defence lawyer Peter Brauti’s claim that it’s “almost impossible” for civilians who have never stood in police shoes to fairly judge them, Milan Rupic delivered a stern reminder.

“In our system of justice, in our liberal democracy, the police do not get to judge themselves,” Rupic said in wrapping up his closing remarks on Friday.

“Police officers cannot and certainly do not deserve to be treated differently from any other accused person,” he said.


http://news.nationalpost.com/full-c...-cop-who-fatally-shot-sammy-yatim-jurors-told

 

[Woodland]

I take it everyone went home for the weekend and the judges instruction won't happen until Monday?

 

[nobodyzgirl]

Looks like the judge will not be instructing the jury until this coming Friday, says he needs a few days off

Michelle Cheung ‏@MichelleCBC · Jan 8
Justice Then tells jury he's sick.Needs a few days rest. Will come back and instruct the jury Thurs, Fri next week and into Mon following

https://twitter.com/MichelleCBC

 

[Woodland]

Suspect there is something else getting in the way of jury instruction and deliberations. Jmo.

 

[bluesneakers]

James Forcillo trial: Jury told to ignore some opinions by lawyers

The jurors who will decide the fate of James Forcillo, the Toronto police officer charged in the shooting death of Sammy Yatim aboard a streetcar in downtown Toronto, are being instructed to ignore certain opinions presented by both legal teams.

The judge instructed the jurors they must decide whether they believe, beyond a reasonable doubt, Forcillo's testimony that he didn't intend to kill Yatim when he shot him and that, as Forcillo testified, he believed the shooting was necessary for his safety and that of others.

Specific instructions at the link.

 

[bluesneakers]

I really don't like the part about Forcillo believing the shooting was necessary for his safety.

 

[tarabull]

I really don't like the part about Forcillo believing the shooting was necessary for his safety.

I'm right there with you.

:moo:

 

[Woodland]

I really don't like the part about Forcillo believing the shooting was necessary for his safety.

Agree - that's not the issue at all. Was Forcillo justified in using lethal force is the issue - and the reason he was brought to trial. Changing the rules after the ball is in play imo.

Fwiw, I think the judge knew he would be sick for a week in order to lessen the momentum the Crown had a week ago. Not impartial imo.

 

[bluesneakers]

More instructions:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/james-forcillo-trial-jury-instructions-1.3409671

I think Forcillo is going to get away with it.