Canada- Sharif Rahman, owner of the Curry House restaurant, suffered brain injury after assault by 3 non-paying men, Owen Sound, Ontario, 17 Aug. '23

[Charlot123]

Do you think they're a red herring? We all might be overthinking it.

But you as the group were discussing it before I even saw the photo, and my first thought was "Members of an (American religious group) that had a family gathering nearby". I am an immigrant, not specifically leaning to any religion (but if my kids ever showed any interested in spirituality, I'd probably take them to that church, so my opinion is overall positive). And, I paid zero attention to the clothes except for the fact that they are "clean but uninspiring" and also, that in Europe fewer adults would dress as kindergarteners.
Strangely, these are the legs and the bodies that gave me this impression. Tall, well-fed (Northern Americans), and underexercised but with potential. I don’t think they are army guys or reservists, but in the army, they'd tone up and look well. Probably "family gathering" came from the thought that they looked like cousins.

 

[LeahBee]

Georgian college has an Owen Sound campus. I wonder how widely distributed these images were there.

Also churches, youth groups, summer camps...

 

[LadyL]

But you as the group were discussing it before I even saw the photo, and my first thought was "Members of an (American religious group) that had a family gathering nearby". I am an immigrant, not specifically leaning to any religion (but if my kids ever showed any interested in spirituality, I'd probably take them to that church, so my opinion is overall positive). And, I paid zero attention to the clothes except for the fact that they are "clean but uninspiring" and also, that in Europe fewer adults would dress as kindergarteners.
Strangely, these are the legs and the bodies that gave me this impression. Tall, well-fed (Northern Americans), and underexercised but with potential. I don’t think they are army guys or reservists, but in the army, they'd tone up and look well. Probably "family gathering" came from the thought that they looked like cousins.

[bbm]



yeah I can't seem to shake that impression either

 

[Cedars]

But you as the group were discussing it before I even saw the photo, and my first thought was "Members of an (American religious group) that had a family gathering nearby". I am an immigrant, not specifically leaning to any religion (but if my kids ever showed any interested in spirituality, I'd probably take them to that church, so my opinion is overall positive). And, I paid zero attention to the clothes except for the fact that they are "clean but uninspiring" and also, that in Europe fewer adults would dress as kindergarteners.
Strangely, these are the legs and the bodies that gave me this impression. Tall, well-fed (Northern Americans), and underexercised but with potential. I don’t think they are army guys or reservists, but in the army, they'd tone up and look well. Probably "family gathering" came from the thought that they looked like cousins.

Also, IMO, because they were with a so-called adult.

Common enough to see late night brawling by possibly drunken kids on a night on the town. But who's this parental figure with a vehicle aiding, abetting, possibly provoking it?

JMO

 

[Cryptic]

Interesting theory. The clothing does give off a beer league uniform vibe. Still, typically a team will go out for drinks after a game together, not break off into smaller parties like a trio.

I agree. They would usually have designated "watering hole" for the team as a whole. As you stated in an earlier post, the watering hole would likely be place with a familiar atmosphere and familiar food.

Its frustrating. As people have noted, there seems to be something unusual about the men in general at that restaurant and something unusual about their clothing.

This yields a lot of plausible theories including servicemen, "Duggars", Beer leaguers etc. Yet... each of the theories, though plausible, has a good number of valid detractors ie

- Beer leaguers are not prone to break off from the main group and do adventure dining after the game.
- Reservists who could go around in partial PT uniform a very unlikely to have private cars.
- At the end of the day, how many Duggars are out there? Let alone, aggressively inclined Duggars?

 

[Cryptic]

I wonder if there was any family reunion of a religious group nearby? These groups are usually what I would say “the exact opposite to violent,” but no family is responsible for an accidental off-kilter behavior of its member. And, I think they were sober.

I think they ended up “still hangry” and planned to beat the owner, not kill him. JMO.

I agree the family reunion possibility and that the crime was not launched as a homicide.

In regards to the religious possibility, some churches can attract a good number of "Duggar" type families. Attending families will even consider reasonable relocations to be close to the church.

I wonder if there is such a church in a smaller town or rural area outside of Owens Sound? The group then visits "the big city" for shopping and.... adventure dining that goes bad?

 

[Charlot123]

Also, IMO, because they were with a so-called adult.

Common enough to see late night brawling by possibly drunken kids on a night on the town. But who's this parental figure with a vehicle aiding, abetting, possibly provoking it?

JMO

The question about the parental figure is very good. In fact, “possibly provoking” is highly likely. Not paying and running away is unpleasant but happens. The other part? Either the assailants waited at the door to attack (premeditation and hatred), or maybe, the owner and his nephew, two adults, ran after them (fear, then)? It is hard to reconstruct what happened (but important as it would explain a lot about motivation, and this, possibly, where to look for them).

 

[Cryptic]

Well... probably not. This is not an part of the world where you'd find that sort of ultra conservative Dugan style camp counsellors. And, I don't think that's the right demographic for a murdering type of person.

I dont know....

People willing to impulsively walk on a tab and then violently resist when confronted exist in both the "right" and "not so right" demographic groups for murdering types. The homicide simply may not of been intended.

Likewise, large religious families and by extension, religious groups comprised of these families can come equipped with a variety of black sheep members. These can include tab walkers and impulsive resistors (homicide may not have been their goal).

But.... I can agree that southern Ontario is probably not fertile ground for Duggar Style camps and staff.

 

[Cedars]

Well... probably not. This is not an part of the world where you'd find that sort of ultra conservative Dugan style camp counsellors. And, I don't think that's the right demographic for a murdering type of person. If so, the bratty camp kids would have disappeared long before these men arrived at the restaurant.

Nah, I just don't see it. Camp counsellors generally volunteer their time and they tend to be outgoing, friendly, giving type of folks.

Weather Underground says it had been a clear, warm day.

Those precious few bug free nights of August, a day of swimming and exploring in beautiful lake country, camping, campfires, smores, etc. vs hanging out late in a deserted restaurant, working yourself up into fistcuffs over a $40 bill.

These are not normal people.

JMO

 

[Cryptic]

Those precious few bug free nights of August, a day of swimming and exploring in beautiful lake country, camping, campfires, smores, etc. vs hanging out late in a deserted restaurant, working yourself up into fistcuffs over a $40 bill.

But, but....

I have been a permanent staffer at this camp since June. I have seen it all.... badly prepared renting groups, complaining parents and bratty kids. Its now August. I am tired kids, tired of lakes, tired of campfires and.... even tired of smores.

My co workers and I are leaving the woods behind and heading to town....

 

[Charlot123]

Curry House is in River District Business.
There are tons of restaurants there and tons of cameras, I presume. I need to compare the prices and the times that they close. But tbh, even KFC suits these guys better. Why did they choose the Curry House? A possible reason - they might have visited it before. When we go to BC, we visit the same Indian restaurant, because my guys "remember it". Maybe the same principle? Visited several years ago.

Page 1 | The Curry House | Business Directory | About Owen Sound | Owen Sound Tourism

www.owensoundtourism.ca

 

[Tricia]

Everyone,
Please STAY ON TOPIC.
Thank you,
Tricia

 

[LadyL]

The question about the parental figure is very good. In fact, “possibly provoking” is highly likely. Not paying and running away is unpleasant but happens. The other part? Either the assailants waited at the door to attack (premeditation and hatred), or maybe, the owner and his nephew, two adults, ran after them (fear, then)? It is hard to reconstruct what happened (but important as it would explain a lot about motivation, and this, possibly, where to look for them).

he did follow them out because they left without paying - the assault occurred outside the restaurant

'The men argued, didn’t pay and left the restaurant, Anas said. Owen Sound police said the men assaulted Sharif Rahman outside the store and fled the area.'

Photos of suspects in violent assault of business owner released

Owen Sound police have released photos of two suspects in an assault that left the owner of a downtown restaurant with critical injuries

torontosun.com

 

[Charlot123]

OK if you Google the Curry House, it has convenient location but there are many pizza places, etc. around it. If you drop a pin and Google RV and campsites, there are several, very close. This is one thought. If they were staying somewhere, given the car, the money situation, I'd think of a campsite first.
Also, there are ferries commuting between Toronto and Tobermory, and Tobermory is close to Owen Sound. Dinner cruises are expensive and won't accommodate a car, but ferries would. In fact, Lake Huron has probably lots of points where ferries take off, but if one wants to escape from Owen Sound fast, probably, a ferry to Ontario? (I am thinking of the fact that they chose a place close to the riverfront, and Owen Sound grew as a bay).
Is it possible?
ETA: another strangeness, the nephew, another victim of the attack, would probably be able to tell the accents, local or not, anglo- or francophones. Did he?

 

[JDG]

OK if you Google the Curry House, it has convenient location but there are many pizza places, etc. around it. If you drop a pin and Google RV and campsites, there are several, very close. This is one thought. If they were staying somewhere, given the car, the money situation, I'd think of a campsite first.
Also, there are ferries commuting between Toronto and Tobermory, and Tobermory is close to Owen Sound. Dinner cruises are expensive and won't accommodate a car, but ferries would. In fact, Lake Huron has probably lots of points where ferries take off, but if one wants to escape from Owen Sound fast, probably, a ferry to Ontario? (I am thinking of the fact that they chose a place close to the riverfront, and Owen Sound grew as a bay).
Is it possible?
ETA: another strangeness, the nephew, another victim of the attack, would probably be able to tell the accents, local or not, anglo- or francophones. Did he?

Can you please provide a link to ferries between Toronto and Tobermory?

I know of no such conveyance, yet I live close to Toronto.

Tobermory is a few hours drive from Toronto, Owen Sound approx an hour less.

Also, Owen Sound and Tobermory are IN Ontario so no fast escape TO Ontario.

 

[musicaljoke]

OK if you Google the Curry House, it has convenient location but there are many pizza places, etc. around it. If you drop a pin and Google RV and campsites, there are several, very close. This is one thought. If they were staying somewhere, given the car, the money situation, I'd think of a campsite first.
Also, there are ferries commuting between Toronto and Tobermory, and Tobermory is close to Owen Sound. Dinner cruises are expensive and won't accommodate a car, but ferries would. In fact, Lake Huron has probably lots of points where ferries take off, but if one wants to escape from Owen Sound fast, probably, a ferry to Ontario? (I am thinking of the fact that they chose a place close to the riverfront, and Owen Sound grew as a bay).
Is it possible?
ETA: another strangeness, the nephew, another victim of the attack, would probably be able to tell the accents, local or not, anglo- or francophones. Did he?

There is one ferry out of Tobermory, and it goes to Manitoulin Island, which is a two hour ferry ride northwest. Reservations are required for the three daily sailings, and one would have to book at least a week in advance for the summer sailings.

Toronto, which is southeast, is on Lake Ontario and is not accessible by ferry to Tobermory. If such a ferry was even possible, it would be at least a five day journey through Lake Huron, Lake St Clair, Lake Erie and Lake Ontario, plus it would have to navigate the waterways at Niagara Falls.

There are no ferries out of Owen Sound. The Owen Sound Ferry Company runs the MS Chi-Cheeman, but it only winters in Owen Sound. It does not operate from there.

So no, escaping by ferry from Owen Sound is a definite impossibility. It would be difficult to escape quickly from there by boat of any description.

 

[Charlot123]

T

Can you please provide a link to ferries between Toronto and Tobermory?

I know of no such conveyance, yet I live close to Toronto.

Tobermory is a few hours drive from Toronto, Owen Sound approx an hour less.

Also, Owen Sound and Tobermory are IN Ontario so no fast escape TO Ontario.

You know, unless i Google Toronto ferry routes tomorrow, it is better to assume i was mistaken, and it had to do with Tobermory, alrhough when i googled "are there ferries from Toronto to Owen Sound?", this is what i got. But I am happy that a Canadian from the environs of Toronto has responded. Perhaps you could kindly explain about the waterway travels in Ontario? I was looking at the map of Ontario and wondered if, given that Owen Sound grew as a port, there still should be some water route to/from it, and if it could be used as a possible escape for someone with a car. I am merely wondering why the cameras on the roads did not register that car. I assume they had to drive out of the town very fast.
I am thinking they were from Ontario, as otherwise the nephew of the victim who witnessed the quarrel and survived would have at least mentioned a different accent. Anything non-local is a huge piece of information. If they came from the US, then crossing the border would leave a very distinct image of the car.

 

[Charlot123]

There is one ferry out of Tobermory, and it goes to Manitoulin Island, which is a two hour ferry ride northwest. Reservations are required for the three daily sailings, and one would have to book at least a week in advance for the summer sailings.

Toronto, which is southeast, is on Lake Ontario and is not accessible by ferry to Tobermory. If such a ferry was even possible, it would be at least a five day journey through Lake Huron, Lake St Clair, Lake Erie and Lake Ontario, plus it would have to navigate the waterways at Niagara Falls.

There are no ferries out of Owen Sound. The Owen Sound Ferry Company runs the MS Chi-Cheeman, but it only winters in Owen Sound. It does not operate from there.

So no, escaping by ferry from Owen Sound is a definite impossibility. It would be difficult to escape quickly from there by boat of any description.

Thank you!

It is so strange that with an old car, and with a witness and given the quarrel (when accents would be noticed), there are no sketches and no additional information.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

dbm- I was looking at the wrong side of the vehicle.

 

[musicaljoke]

Thank you!

It is so strange that with an old car, and with a witness and given the quarrel (when accents would be noticed), there are no sketches and no additional information.

Owen Sound is a fairly rural town, but even so, I expect that the OPP has way more camera evidence than what they are revealing to us. I just pray that it won't be long before the suspects are apprehended.