CANADA Canada - Sonia Varaschin, 42, Orangeville, 29 Aug 2010 - #3

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves
Status
Not open for further replies.
So sorry if someone has re-posted this for the anniversary already (I haven't doubled back yet through the prev pages) but here's the video from 2 years ago, Who Killed Sonia:

In the video, Det. Glassford states that the area of townhomes where Sonia lived was very tightly packed; he indicates the killer likely knew the area. Sonia's mom makes it clear she believes someone was there at Sonia's house in the evening because she didn't receive a call from Sonia that night (which was unusual UNLESS there were visitors). The former bf says he spoke with Sonia by phone around 9 pm. So: how do we reconcile these details? Michele reveals that Sonia was wearing a new nightgown she had bought herself for her birthday that night (Michele says Sonia had it on when found); Sonia would not likely be wearing it without a dressing gown to answer the door after 9 pm, Michele states.

She reminds us that the former bf's house is less than 5 km (per Michele) from where Sonia's body was found. Some like me have thought the perp was perhaps trying to frame the bf; Sonia's mom has a different interpretation.

I noted in the video the interesting way Glassford answered Qs about DNA. I know there's room for different interpretation on that. (Me, I share Michele's worries.)

What will it take to solve this case???
Logic tells us who is most likely to commit a crime like this. Logic also tells us that if DNA from people known to a victim is found in their home, this DNA is or is not useful, depending on where it is found and the relationship to the person.
 
So sorry if someone has re-posted this for the anniversary already (I haven't doubled back yet through the prev pages) but here's the video from 2 years ago, Who Killed Sonia:

In the video, Det. Glassford states that the area of townhomes where Sonia lived was very tightly packed; he indicates the killer likely knew the area. Sonia's mom makes it clear she believes someone was there at Sonia's house in the evening because she didn't receive a call from Sonia that night (which was unusual UNLESS there were visitors). The former bf says he spoke with Sonia by phone around 9 pm. So: how do we reconcile these details? Michele reveals that Sonia was wearing a new nightgown she had bought herself for her birthday that night (Michele says Sonia had it on when found); Sonia would not likely be wearing it without a dressing gown to answer the door after 9 pm, Michele states.

She reminds us that the former bf's house is less than 5 km (per Michele) from where Sonia's body was found. Some like me have thought the perp was perhaps trying to frame the bf; Sonia's mom has a different interpretation.

I noted in the video the interesting way Glassford answered Qs about DNA. I know there's room for different interpretation on that. (Me, I share Michele's worries.)

What will it take to solve this case???
RBBM

I tend to forget how close the bf/ex bf lived in proximity. For someone who knew Sonias' personal life, it might have been easy to "set up" the bf. If so, it would seem Sonia had a stalker keeping track of her life. JMO.

The DNA is a frustrating point because (not to be critical) if LE has something they should be doing something with it. Am I the only one who wonders what is going on?
 
No, you're not the only one!!! Sonia's mom says something in the video like (iirc) "now they're saying it's mixed" -- a mixture of profile, I think she's getting at. Remember how more recent news stories have intimated they have DNA that requires a "new science" to separate? ‘Who left the DNA?’ Sonia Varaschin murder investigators exploring ‘new science’ to find Orangeville nurse’s killer -? (I sometimes worry I'm mixing up Sonia's and Audrey Gleave's cases in terms of recent updates on "mixed" DNA and re-sending for analysis.) But it feels to me like what is being released to us more recently (2019+) confirms my original fears they don't have an isolated profile to compare against (oh, all those 500+ DNA swabs.....) I have always worried that the DNA canvass was a smoke-out to see who would refuse to give a sample. I don't blame LE if so, but I'm more desperately hoping that I'm wrong about the DNA -- I'm hoping they DO have a viable sample already -- in addition to the mixed sample they need the STR tech to isolate. That's possible -- but all the cagey ways (to me) info about DNA is discussed on questioning in many of the news reports doesn't give me full hope. Btw, if you google, you'll see a lawsuit in Ontario filed 2019 that relates to DNA canvasses (Sonia's case is listed among examples). I used to be someone who thought about civil liberties in relation to state surveillance etc but now I support pretty much all tactics that can help LE and families find justice -- if only, only, only we could have had video captured of the perp or perps getting out of Sonia's car at the tack shop! (If Sonia had a doorbell cam we might have had a close-up, since no matter how he entered her unit he left through her front door as the global doc confirms.) If LE needs to hang on to the samples in the hope there can be a match in future I support that wholly too. Sonia's mom in the video says she doesn't think the case will be solved -- but at the same time at the end of the doc the reporter says Michele believes there must be one clue we're all overlooking. If LE could tip their hand just a bit more -- give us something to sleuth! -- maybe we could work with that. Maybe an employer, co-worker, neighbour, friend partner or ex-partner, parent or child of the perp could come forward if the public was given something more to look for. Cause of death comes to mind -- was it a typical kind or unusual type of weapon? Was it something from inside of Sonia's home and if so, was it recovered? Because if not recovered, maybe folks could be on the lookout for that (as just some examples of info that could be helpful for stimulating tips). I keep watching true crime shows in the hope something will tweak for how the public can assist.
It has now been 12 years. Already that feels too long. I very nearly didn't post anything this "anniversary" out of exhaustion -- I can only (and just) imagine how Sonia's loved ones - friends and family - must be feeling. My thoughts are with them for continued strength.
 
Also: in the video, the former bf says LE never searched his home nor his computer. If true, I wonder why that is -- especially if they believe the killer wore a very specific and identifiable type of boot. The former bf is a tall man; perhaps his shoe size is much larger than the size 10-11 they've been looking for. Has info related to his shoe size ever been released? I don't imagine anyone would be ruled in or out on foot size, of course.... (I myself have not thought of the former bf overseas as the perp but these are probably questions folks have.)
 
Also --
I hope I'm not violating the TOS with this post -- if so, mods, please have my apologies. Hoping this info is ok to share, I will say:
there is some info on the fbook page for Sonia that was created "in loving memory" for her in 2010 that offers a new tip. It's a public page so folks can go and look there for themselves. Apparently someone posted then deleted info about an ex bf who was "secretly" dating Sonia (and her) at the time and who wore boots like (AND same size as) those investigators have indicated the killer wore. The poster may have called in the info to LE. Some members on the site were clever enough to screen-shoot the message before it was removed and one re-posted it back on the page. Brief discussion there seems to intimate (without stating directly) that LE has been contacted with the info. Gosh! There can be a lot of bogus crap to sort through when tips come in, but I'm REALLY hoping this is both new and viable info. In fact, I'm trying to kindle a little flame of hope here. Anyway. I'm not sure if others have seen this info but wanted to share it. I haven't included the link to the page because I think that's against the rules (is that right -?) but, again, this is public info anyone can find. I did, just now. The info indicates it came in "1w" ago.
Fingers crossed this can lead to something!!
 
Also --
I hope I'm not violating the TOS with this post -- if so, mods, please have my apologies. Hoping this info is ok to share, I will say:
there is some info on the fbook page for Sonia that was created "in loving memory" for her in 2010 that offers a new tip. It's a public page so folks can go and look there for themselves. Apparently someone posted then deleted info about an ex bf who was "secretly" dating Sonia (and her) at the time and who wore boots like (AND same size as) those investigators have indicated the killer wore. The poster may have called in the info to LE. Some members on the site were clever enough to screen-shoot the message before it was removed and one re-posted it back on the page. Brief discussion there seems to intimate (without stating directly) that LE has been contacted with the info. Gosh! There can be a lot of bogus crap to sort through when tips come in, but I'm REALLY hoping this is both new and viable info. In fact, I'm trying to kindle a little flame of hope here. Anyway. I'm not sure if others have seen this info but wanted to share it. I haven't included the link to the page because I think that's against the rules (is that right -?) but, again, this is public info anyone can find. I did, just now. The info indicates it came in "1w" ago.
Fingers crossed this can lead to something!!

You made a number of excellent points within your posts & ITA with many of them. My post is going to be lengthy, coffee might be necessary!

This is an interesting bit of information that (as usual lol) I was unaware of. I believe you're correct, it might be against TOS to link that kind of content.

It wouldn't surprise me if the FB posts were bogus. Then again maybe Sonia was dating someone with multiple partners and possibly THIS person wasn't happy about it? Could Sonia have been catfished or tricked into letting someone in, anticipating romance and was duped?

Here's a question: If Sonia had been wearing her scrubs, flannel pjs, jogging pants & t-shirt, would it change anything? Because it seems to me that there is an image created here of a single woman, alone at night on the phone with her ex bf, wearing her "nightgown" and attacked in her bedroom. Maybe this is just an exaggeration in my mind?

Then again, people speculate that Audrey Gleaves murder also possibly contained a sexual element and she was found in her garage wearing sweatpants. I guess it comes down to the state of mind of the killer in question?

On one hand we already know that it really doesn't matter what a victim is wearing as sexually motivated crimes are about control not sexual attraction (with exception to cases of unrequited love, rejected/intimacy seeking stalkers etc). On the other hand, what a victim is wearing and where they are killed/found might provide some context to whatever happened.

We don't really have those details. What caused Sonias death, what might have been used against her, if it came from her own home etc. It might be helpful to release more details as so much time has passed. I'm not sure what the typical procedure is? Would LE really hold back much at this point and time? I've heard some people say that LE will hold back COD in particular if a specific weapon was used (ex gun). I forget why this is though.

Good point regarding the former bf and the boots, computer etc. If the ex wore a size 14 is that really all it would take to rule him out? You'd think LE would simply use the DNA found at the scene to compare and rule people in/out...!?

Former BF: Strange that LE never checked his computer, home etc. I was under the impression that he was searched, had turned over his computer or offered it to LE? IIRC the former bf was in the midst of moving house to reunite with his wife. I know this information is available within the thread so won't bother linking (hope that's acceptable). At one point there was speculation here that the ex had used moving as an opportunity to be rid of evidence. From what I remember, it appeared that the ex bf was being cooperative and in the end was ruled out as a POI.

Have forensic/DNA experts ever weighed in on this case? Noting that apparently RFLP means restriction fragment length polymorphism which differs from PCR in ways I cannot comprehend or covey. Point being: Perhaps there are limits to what LE can do with whatever evidence they have?

DNA Typing — Polymerase Chain Reaction (PCR)

The copying process, known as polymerase chain reaction (PCR), uses an enzyme (polymerase) to replicate DNA regions in a test tube. By repeating the copying process, a small number of DNA molecules can be reliably increased up to billions within several hours.

RFLP
analysis ***requires a biological sample about the size of a quarter***, but PCR can be used to reproduce millions of copies of the DNA contained in a few skin cells. Since PCR analysis requires only a minute quantity of DNA, it can enable the laboratory to analyze highly degraded evidence for DNA.

DNA Typing — Y-Chromosome Analysis

Several genetic markers have been identified on the Y chromosome that can be used in forensic applications. Y-chromosome markers target only the male fraction of a biological sample. Therefore, this technique can be very valuable if the laboratory detects complex mixtures (multiple male contributors) within a biological evidence sample.

Where was the boot print found? The fact that mixed DNA and a bloody boot print were found yet it's led to nothing in over 10 years is disheartening. If LE have DNA, does this mean it's been compared to other samples? Meaning, is it being cross referenced at any point or time in a system somewhere?

Sorry, that was a long post!
 
You made a number of excellent points within your posts & ITA with many of them. My post is going to be lengthy, coffee might be necessary!

This is an interesting bit of information that (as usual lol) I was unaware of. I believe you're correct, it might be against TOS to link that kind of content.

It wouldn't surprise me if the FB posts were bogus. Then again maybe Sonia was dating someone with multiple partners and possibly THIS person wasn't happy about it? Could Sonia have been catfished or tricked into letting someone in, anticipating romance and was duped?

Here's a question: If Sonia had been wearing her scrubs, flannel pjs, jogging pants & t-shirt, would it change anything? Because it seems to me that there is an image created here of a single woman, alone at night on the phone with her ex bf, wearing her "nightgown" and attacked in her bedroom. Maybe this is just an exaggeration in my mind?

Then again, people speculate that Audrey Gleaves murder also possibly contained a sexual element and she was found in her garage wearing sweatpants. I guess it comes down to the state of mind of the killer in question?

On one hand we already know that it really doesn't matter what a victim is wearing as sexually motivated crimes are about control not sexual attraction (with exception to cases of unrequited love, rejected/intimacy seeking stalkers etc). On the other hand, what a victim is wearing and where they are killed/found might provide some context to whatever happened.

We don't really have those details. What caused Sonias death, what might have been used against her, if it came from her own home etc. It might be helpful to release more details as so much time has passed. I'm not sure what the typical procedure is? Would LE really hold back much at this point and time? I've heard some people say that LE will hold back COD in particular if a specific weapon was used (ex gun). I forget why this is though.

Good point regarding the former bf and the boots, computer etc. If the ex wore a size 14 is that really all it would take to rule him out? You'd think LE would simply use the DNA found at the scene to compare and rule people in/out...!?

Former BF: Strange that LE never checked his computer, home etc. I was under the impression that he was searched, had turned over his computer or offered it to LE? IIRC the former bf was in the midst of moving house to reunite with his wife. I know this information is available within the thread so won't bother linking (hope that's acceptable). At one point there was speculation here that the ex had used moving as an opportunity to be rid of evidence. From what I remember, it appeared that the ex bf was being cooperative and in the end was ruled out as a POI.

Have forensic/DNA experts ever weighed in on this case? Noting that apparently RFLP means restriction fragment length polymorphism which differs from PCR in ways I cannot comprehend or covey. Point being: Perhaps there are limits to what LE can do with whatever evidence they have?

DNA Typing — Polymerase Chain Reaction (PCR)

The copying process, known as polymerase chain reaction (PCR), uses an enzyme (polymerase) to replicate DNA regions in a test tube. By repeating the copying process, a small number of DNA molecules can be reliably increased up to billions within several hours.

RFLP
analysis ***requires a biological sample about the size of a quarter***, but PCR can be used to reproduce millions of copies of the DNA contained in a few skin cells. Since PCR analysis requires only a minute quantity of DNA, it can enable the laboratory to analyze highly degraded evidence for DNA.

DNA Typing — Y-Chromosome Analysis

Several genetic markers have been identified on the Y chromosome that can be used in forensic applications. Y-chromosome markers target only the male fraction of a biological sample. Therefore, this technique can be very valuable if the laboratory detects complex mixtures (multiple male contributors) within a biological evidence sample.

Where was the boot print found? The fact that mixed DNA and a bloody boot print were found yet it's led to nothing in over 10 years is disheartening. If LE have DNA, does this mean it's been compared to other samples? Meaning, is it being cross referenced at any point or time in a system somewhere?

Sorry, that was a long post!
Thank you.

I think the DNA question could be a case of the murderer being known to Sonia, and a previous visitor to her home. His DNA could have been explained away as something that was expected in her home.

However, if that person was not an intimate partner, would his DNA be found on a brand new nightgown?

What kind of DNA was found? If the person left DNA from blood, or if the DNA was another bodily fluid, where was it found: on Sonia's body, in her home, in her car?

It seems to me that Sonia's body was removed from her home in the hope of degrading the killer's DNA on her person and on her bedding, out in the elements. The killer did not seem concerned about his DNA and Sonia's blood left in her home and car. My thinking is that any DNA from Sonia's killer that was left on Sonia's person and on her bedding did degrade. This tells me us something. Was the person known to Sonia, but not intimately? A previous visitor to her home could explain DNA there, but not intimate DNA?
 
Thank you.

I think the DNA question could be a case of the murderer being known to Sonia, and a previous visitor to her home. His DNA could have been explained away as something that was expected in her home.

However, if that person was not an intimate partner, would his DNA be found on a brand new nightgown?

What kind of DNA was found? If the person left DNA from blood, or if the DNA was another bodily fluid, where was it found: on Sonia's body, in her home, in her car?

It seems to me that Sonia's body was removed from her home in the hope of degrading the killer's DNA on her person and on her bedding, out in the elements. The killer did not seem concerned about his DNA and Sonia's blood left in her home and car. My thinking is that any DNA from Sonia's killer that was left on Sonia's person and on her bedding did degrade. This tells me us something. Was the person known to Sonia, but not intimately? A previous visitor to her home could explain DNA there, but not intimate DNA?

Moving the body would definitely have helped to degrade any DNA but might not completely erase it. Especially depending on where the DNA was found. Depending on the fabric, some DNA can last for 36+ days even after being in water.

Here is a list of evidence/weapons and DNA typically found with said evidence: DNA Evidence: Basics of Identifying, Gathering and Transporting

It would make sense that whatever LE found could have been on Sonia herself and indeed, being outside for that long could have degraded anything that was recovered.
 
Moving the body would definitely have helped to degrade any DNA but might not completely erase it. Especially depending on where the DNA was found. Depending on the fabric, some DNA can last for 36+ days even after being in water.

Here is a list of evidence/weapons and DNA typically found with said evidence: DNA Evidence: Basics of Identifying, Gathering and Transporting

It would make sense that whatever LE found could have been on Sonia herself and indeed, being outside for that long could have degraded anything that was recovered.
As I recall, Sonia was left in a swampy area. It had been hot, then it had rained before she was found. Weather conditions like that could hasten the degradation of DNA evidence.

"Partial DNA" or "incomplete DNA" was found in many of the lingerie theft crime scenes committed by Russell Williams, who was caught in 2010. In dozens of crime scenes, little was apparently useful. That was from crimes committed indoors. Whatever technology was used at the time to test for DNA has advanced. Better technology exists now for testing mixed DNA and trace DNA. Many long-unsolved crimes and unidentified persons cases have been resolved.

We still don't know if DNA evidence from Sonia's murder has been submitted to a private company like Othram for updated testing. This comes at a cost, but Sonia's family is still alive and waiting for answers. If not now, when?
 
Yes -- I agree. In the OPP video from a couple of years ago, someone (Det. Glassford or a DNA expert; sorry I'm going by memory) described the DNA gathered as weak generating a minor or partial profile -- but that while it would always be a weak sample the technology, as you say Gina20, is what would improve. I really hope the science will solve this -- it's just hard to wait.
We still need folks to come forward with what they know.
 
[...]

Here's a question: If Sonia had been wearing her scrubs, flannel pjs, jogging pants & t-shirt, would it change anything? Because it seems to me that there is an image created here of a single woman, alone at night on the phone with her ex bf, wearing her "nightgown" and attacked in her bedroom. Maybe this is just an exaggeration in my mind?
[...]
RSBM.
Thanks for all the great links and info in your long post, whiterhino -- I had coffee AND cookies while reading :)

I think for me the point about the new nightgown her mom says Sonia was found in is what it can suggest (or not, perforce) about Sonia potentially expecting a visitor. It's just one theory among many possibilities -- was she seeking comfort from a former or new suitor given that her on-and-off-again bf was leaving the continent --hence the new nightie and the wearing of it that night? I know that may not be the case. She could have worn the new gown for herself, alone, of course -- OR for the phone chat with the bf; OTH, the perp could have forced her to put it on, or put it on her after the attack. These are all possibly equal potentialities to the idea and gets us not much further, I guess, to whether she had invited a visitor or not. Even considering Michele's insistence that it would be highly unusual for Sonia not to call her mom that night unless she had company, we couldn't know if that company was originally an invitee or an intruder.... It's just that the bf's call at 9ish pm is interesting, given that there seemed no alert then and yet no call before or after to her mom. That remains a kind of speaking component in this case -- we just don't understand its expression/meaning yet.
 
lol, sorry whiterhino: I had meant to type "longer" (NOT "long" -- as in "longer post") in my reply above (to signal that I clipped from it) -- but I can't seem to edit it now!
:)
 
I was reading a new series on the BBC website about Canadian serial killer Bruce McArthur and made note that after his second victim was killed, a female detective with Peel Regional Police was the first to raise the alarm about a possible serial killer. Her concerns did not seem to have been taken seriously. McArthur's first known victim was last seen on September 5, 2010. His second victim was from Brampton, and disappeared in December 2010.


Sonia's body was found September 4, 2010. Shelley Loder was attacked in Mono in December 2010.

I searched Google Maps with the term "garden centre". There are a LOT of garden centres from Mono south, FWIW. So there you have it, for the record.
 
I was reading a new series on the BBC website about Canadian serial killer Bruce McArthur and made note that after his second victim was killed, a female detective with Peel Regional Police was the first to raise the alarm about a possible serial killer. Her concerns did not seem to have been taken seriously. McArthur's first known victim was last seen on September 5, 2010. His second victim was from Brampton, and disappeared in December 2010.


Sonia's body was found September 4, 2010. Shelley Loder was attacked in Mono in December 2010.

I searched Google Maps with the term "garden centre". There are a LOT of garden centres from Mono south, FWIW. So there you have it, for the record.
Another one of McArthur's victims was studying to be a registered nurse. This article does not say where he studied.

 
Another one of McArthur's victims was studying to be a registered nurse. This article does not say where he studied.

Great find, thank you! :)

Is this the show you watched:

 
Last edited:
Some reasons as to WHY he'd kill/attack females:
- they got in his way
- they knew the male he was looking for
- they dated a bisexual man with whom he'd been involved

FWIW
Adding to that:

They looked like a female in his life who he resented.

Great find, thank you! :)

Is this the show you watched:

No, I was referring to the print article, but that would be worth watching.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
69
Guests online
150
Total visitors
219

Forum statistics

Threads
608,827
Messages
18,246,143
Members
234,460
Latest member
Mysterymind
Back
Top