Canada - Tim McLean, 22, decapitated on bus, Winnipeg, 30 July 2008 *Insanity*

[concernedperson]

This guy was so mentally ill that it hardly can fit in a category. I don't think someone goes from 0 -10 without others knowing there is a problem. Of course, I am not a doctor but generally speaking there are signs.

 

[ember]

Li was in court today

When a judge asked him if he wanted a lawyer, Li shook his head no and then quietly said "please kill me."

According to a police report read by the Crown, officers discovered a plastic bag containing an ear, nose and part of a mouth in the pocket of the accused.

Link

Personally, I wish they would but I don't think Canada has the DP.
I think that if this man is mentally ill to that extreme, he should be put down like a rabid animal. He's a horrific danger, plain and simple, regardless of his mental illness. I don't think he should be given a pass because of his illness. We have become too tolerant of it....and obviously anybody who would harm another IS mentally ill....and should be taken out of society as we would a dangerous animal. No difference to me.

I may be being extremely un PC, but I really don't care. This kind of senseless killing is too much to bear.

I wish much comfort to that young man's family and hope that some day they will be able to sleep again at night...though I can't see that happening any time soon.....just absolutely heinous what was done to him. :furious:

 

[Grainne Dhu]

But Li hadn't been diagnosed with schizophrenia had he? I thought Canada would be one of the "best" countries to live in if one is to fall ill, mentally or otherwise. If Li does have schizophrenia then surely he must have had the condition for quite a while since onset is late teens/early adulthood, I can't imagine someone behaving erratically for so many years without having been referred to psychiatric resources at some point...

Onset after age 40 is very rare but not unheard of. I think it's more likely that while Li was in China, he was able to compensate for his illness and was probably able to act fairly normal. When he went to Canada, he went to a completely different culture, with different norms and expectations. Those are very difficult things for people with normal mental health to deal with, let alone someone with a serious mental illness.

His boss said that Li was occasionally frustrated with himself when he couldn't communicate on the job. Considering he was working at MacDonalds and doing newspaper delivery, the level of language required would be more about concrete things, rather than emotional or abstract concepts.

I'm not sure that the Chinese have the same concept of mental illness as we do here in the US and Canada. I don't know enough about Chinese culture--do they rely on psychiatrists/psychologists for mental health care or do people usually turn to their families or their church? If they do use psychiatry/psychology extensively, how is it accessed?

And then, in Canada, even if he had been referred to psychiatric resources, would they speak his form of Chinese? I just don't see any way for someone who can't always communicate about concrete tasks on the job being able to describe abstract concepts or complex emotions. If he had someone to translate for him, would that inhibit him from talking about what was going on in his head?

I feel so sad for his victim but I also feel sad for Li. Life can be so hard even for people with no mental illnesses to cope with, I can't imagine stacking mental illness and culture shock on top of it.

 

[Grainne Dhu]

Another point: Someone had mentioned that patients are closely monitored and discouraged from forming romantic relationships with other patients while hospitalized.

That would be me.

This is very true.
For practical and liabilty reasons.
Its thought that patients are supposed to be focused on their own personal recovery which can be compromised by a love affair and its inherent drama.
Also since these patients have been commited by the court they legaly are not responsible for their actions.
Many have very compromised judgement faculties and can be easily victimized by others.
Also imagine the liabilty for the state if a relative were commited by the courts to a state hospital and became pregnant or contracted an STD or later claimed that a consensual relationship was actually rape (Many of these people are delusional and can convince themselves of anything).
Also many of these patients that have been living on the street have heppatitus C so there is also an infection control issue.

I agree, there are many, many practical issues (although Hepatitis C between heterosexuals wouldn't be one of them; more below).

But I also know that the vast majority of people do not choose celibacy as a way of life. Most people, including people with mental illness, have a strong desire that can amount in intensity almost to a need for that special closeness and companionship with someone else, even if they are not capable of having sex. People who, for one reason or another, are prevented from having such a relationship don't just turn off that desire.

When looking at why people cycle in and out of residential care, it's important to look at all the reasons that people want to leave. I agree that there are people who should be in residential care for life but such care should be as non-aversive as possible because having a mental illness is not a crime. Nor should being unable to take care of one's self be a crime.

The practical issues are many and complex but that doesn't mean they can't be addressed with something more than "take a cold shower."

As for Hepatitis C, it is not easily transmitted through heterosexual sex. It's actually more dangerous to share a comb with someone who has HepC (ironic, huh?).

 

[kline]

Yeah its a complex issue.
Of course at least at the facility I work at probably 75% aare only hospitalized for a few months.
Whats made things worse in alot of states was budget cuts the empahasis seems to have turned to get them in and get them out.
And its become a revolving door situation and the one who pays is the patient because many of them have nothing out there in the way of a support system.
I agree completely much more needs to be done.
I dont know what the exact particulars were in this case as to what could have been done to prevent this horror from occuring.

 

[Elphaba]

PETA sinks to a new low, in trying to use this incident as part of one of their campaigns!!!!!

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5i_4w_sLLEcauM1G4kb0Ld03RCR3AD92DIJ1O0

http://www.nationalpost.com/story.html?id=705090

Their actual advert:

http://blog.peta.org/archives/mani_large.php

 

[Elphaba]

And if that isn't horrible enough, the Phelps clan/church is going to picket the poor man's funeral!!!!!!!!!!!

OMG... how anymore horrible can this get... why don't these people leave this family ALONE?!?!?!?!

http://www.nationalpost.com/most_popular/story.html?id=702660

 

[capoly]

PETA sinks to a new low, in trying to use this incident as part of one of their campaigns!!!!!

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5i_4w_sLLEcauM1G4kb0Ld03RCR3AD92DIJ1O0

http://www.nationalpost.com/story.html?id=705090

Their actual advert:

http://blog.peta.org/archives/mani_large.php

That's disgusting. I love animals but disrespecting this young man's life in such a way is no way to encourage humane treatment of animals. If anything they will hurt their cause. Honestly, I'd be a little scared of the person who came up with this ad, what kind of mind is that?

 

[capoly]

And if that isn't horrible enough, the Phelps clan/church is going to picket the poor man's funeral!!!!!!!!!!!

OMG... how anymore horrible can this get... why don't these people leave this family ALONE?!?!?!?!

http://www.nationalpost.com/most_popular/story.html?id=702660

I wouldn't worry to much about these people doing anything. They have no rights in Canada and will most likely be kicked out if their even allowed in. If it is known their intent is one of bad will, they can be held at the border.

 

[capoly]

Controversial U.S. church group stopped at border

Winnipeg NDP MP Pat Martin said his office was flooded with phone calls yesterday from angry Winnipeggers.

"These people [from Westboro] are almost as crazy as the murderer," he said. "If they are here to disrupt the social order, that constitutes grounds to deny them entry. There is no redeeming virtue in the message they are bringing."


http://www.nationalpost.com/news/canada/story.html?id=707624


Yep, they were stopped.

 

[PSUfan]

I wouldn't worry to much about these people doing anything. They have no rights in Canada and will most likely be kicked out if their even allowed in. If it is known their intent is one of bad will, they can be held at the border.

And most likely, they will not make it past the border. I would bet that they have some arrests among them. They are just looking for publicity, and as usual, they have gotten it, just by threatening to be there. Buncha losers... the "church" that they claim to be a part of, does not recognize them. They are just a bunch of losers who get alot of press.

 

[PrayersForMaura]

this whole story is sick, disgusting, sad and perplexing all at the same time.
I am just at a loss for other words, but I pray for the victim's family and all passengers of that bus. I have never heard anything like this before.

 

[Alta]

McLean called hero


"If it wasn't for what he did, there would have been more that didn't get off that bus," said the 19-year-old Northwest Territories native.
He said McLean tried to get away from the suspect, attempting to fight off his killer after receiving at least two devastating stab wounds.
When Tim fought back, he gave us all time to get off the bus," Allison said in Winnipeg last night. "He was asleep initially, but then he jumped over (the suspect) and tried to fight ... it was a last attempt (to save his own life)."
He said that last ditch move landed McLean in the aisleway, where the suspect allegedly continued his brutal attack.

LINK

 

[jilly]

CALGARY (CBC) - A truck driver who scrambled to help Greyhound passengers who had witnessed a stabbing and decapitation in July aboard a bus on the Trans-Canada Highway near Portage la Prairie, Man., is criticizing the RCMP's response.

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/cbc/080902/canada/winnipeg_alguire_greyhound

 

[SieSie]

Has anyone heard about toxicology results on the perp?

 

[jilly]

Has anyone heard about toxicology results on the perp?

Not a word SieSie. He's apparently undergoing psychological assessment at this time.

 

[SieSie]

Not a word SieSie. He's apparently undergoing psychological assessment at this time.

Thanks, jilly! I can't believe they wouldn't have the results of toxicology back yet, or maybe they do and they aren't releasing it. This was in Canada, so maybe their laws/rules are different about that.

 

[SieSie]

< bump >
Any of our Canadian friends hear any news about this case yet? I would love to hear the toxicology results if they've been released.

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

This is all I've been able to find, a small mention at the end of an article discussing yet another stabbing on a Canadian Greyhound bus:

Man stabbed aboard Greyhound bus in northern Ontario

Vince Weiguang Li, 40, is charged with second-degree murder and is undergoing a psychiatric evaluation to see whether he is fit to stand trial. He's scheduled to appear in court Oct. 6.

 

[SieSie]

This is all I've been able to find, a small mention at the end of an article discussing yet another stabbing on a Canadian Greyhound bus:

Man stabbed aboard Greyhound bus in northern Ontario

Vince Weiguang Li, 40, is charged with second-degree murder and is undergoing a psychiatric evaluation to see whether he is fit to stand trial. He's scheduled to appear in court Oct. 6.

Thanks for the link, JerseyGirl - unfortunately, still no answers about toxicology. I wonder if that's normal for Canada to not release that information, or if it has something to do with him undergoing psych. evaluation. :doh: