Identified! Canada - Tofield, AB, 'Septic Tank Sam' Ntv/WhtMale 1046UMAB, Apr'77 - Gordon Edwin Sanderson

[Sillybilly]

I'm really confused... Has he been ID'ed???

No, he has not been identified, and I don't know how his thread ended up in Identified. I've moved it back here where it belongs.

 

[namstache]

I wonder if Randy Brosius has been looked into as a comparison. He went missing in late January 1977 and was 5'6." He was kidnapped by two men. Prior to this his family had been receiving threatening phone calls to cut off parts of Randy's body due to his failure in a very large marijuana delivery plot (over 50 pounds.) The dissuading evidence would be that he had diabetes and his leg had been fractured in 18 places when he was a teenager.

Missing Person Case

 

[AlwaysCoffee]

Randy sure resembles our Doe, doesn't he? I find it eerie that people had been threatening to cut off parts of his body while Sam was discovered with one particular part of his body removed-- a body part that's more symbolic than something like a finger or an ear.

The clothing preference might not work with this theory, though, since someone who likes pea coats and Wellington boots might not be into Levi work shirts and knockoff Wallabees, imo.

(And, sorry to be ignorant about human anatomy, but why would diabetes be a dissuading factor? That's not something that would show on the body postmortem, is it?)

 

[UnlicensedPI]

When I think of blowtorches, cigarettes, and work shirts, I think of mechanics. Just throwing it out there since he may have been in another industry and not a farmhand.

 

[silverjug]

Randy sure resembles our Doe, doesn't he? I find it eerie that people had been threatening to cut off parts of his body while Sam was discovered with one particular part of his body removed-- a body part that's more symbolic than something like a finger or an ear.

The clothing preference might not work with this theory, though, since someone who likes pea coats and Wellington boots might not be into Levi work shirts and knockoff Wallabees, imo.

(And, sorry to be ignorant about human anatomy, but why would diabetes be a dissuading factor? That's not something that would show on the body postmortem, is it?)

Diabetes shows up as very dark patches in folds of the skin,cracking and extreme dryness on the body and sometimes ulcers. These are just a few symptoms.

 

[AlwaysCoffee]

I appreciate the explanation, silverjug! I really didn't know that... I'm still new to sleuthing, so that's something I'll keep in mind if diabetes ever comes up in any other cases I might follow.

A few nights ago, though, I had a thought that jolted me up in the middle of the night, and I just had to share it here...

Poor Sam had been in the septic tank for quite some time. I'm sure his body wasn't in great shape when they pulled him out, plus, he'd been mutilated so badly they couldn't even sex him right away. Could it be possible that the torture wounds, the sludge, and the level of decomposition was enough to hide diabetic symptoms in the body? Also, could this (along with the leg fracture) be something that LE might decide to withhold from the public?

I'm not 100% convinced that it's Randy, but I just wanted to ask these questions because I do think he's a good lead. Jmo, of course.

 

[madamx]

When I think of blowtorches, cigarettes, and work shirts, I think of mechanics. Just throwing it out there since he may have been in another industry and not a farmhand.

Now that you mention it. I think Welding when I think blowtorches.

 

[namstache]

Diabetes cannot be detected through autopsy but death from ketoacidosis can be detected (this was actually on my medicolegal final! Funny timing.) Randy’s mom was quoted in a newspaper article saying she felt he could not have lived long after being taken because he didnt have any insulin with him.

 

[AlwaysCoffee]

Diabetes cannot be detected through autopsy but death from ketoacidosis can be detected (this was actually on my medicolegal final! Funny timing.) Randy’s mom was quoted in a newspaper article saying she felt he could not have lived long after being taken because he didnt have any insulin with him.

Because of this, I also believe that Randy, wherever he is, is deceased.

 

[Ozoner]

Unless Randy's drug activities revolved around transporting marijuana from Canada to the US, I'd say there's no reason to think that there's a connection to this case.
I tend to think that it could have been a hate crime. Septic Tack Sam had aboriginal heritage; he may have been a laborer in the area who tried to date a white woman.

 

[Blurgle]

I strongly doubt anyone would go after him simply for trying to date a white woman. There’s enough intermarriage in rural Alberta that few people would care. What they might care about is sexual assault, but to me this smacks more of simple sadism than payback.

While I’m at it I should point out that there are abandoned farmhouses everywhere in rural Alberta, and there were more of them 35-40 years ago than there are now. It’s not unusual that Sam was found near one; it would be stranger if he hadn’t. Also, anyone in the country who owned a vehicle would have owned an acetylene torch, if only to thaw the door lock after a night of -40° wind chills.

 

[theshadow45]

"Sam" has been unidentified for 42 years today.

 

[Feme98]

Hello guys, while searching online about the UID, I came across a possible match:

Guy Carignan, missing since April 18th 1973 from Québec
23 years old at the time (if he's the UID, his age would have been 27 by 1977)
5 ft 9 inches
Brown hair and eyes

 

[Feme98]

Hello guys, while searching online about the UID, I came across a possible match:

Guy Carignan, missing since April 18th 1973 from Québec
23 years old at the time (if he's the UID, his age would have been 27 by 1977)
5 ft 9 inches
Brown hair and eyes

A quick following on this,

Does anyone know if calling the PD or any phone agency that might receive the tip, is reachable from as far as South America? (I’m Chilean so it’s a long way to reach Alberta) would it better if i just leave an email or message on their hotline?

Thanks.

 

[Woodland]

Hi Feme98 - Canada has a database for missing persons and unidentified remains and Septic Tank Sam is in the database.

The case reference is 2014001122 and you can e-mail Crime Stoppers or the RCMP as follows -

If you have information on this case, please contact any of the following:

1. Tofield RCMP: (780)662-3353
   Reference Case#: 2012502446
   
   
2. Crime Stoppers: 1-800-222-TIPS(8477) or online at TipSoft - Web Tip Submission
   Crime Stoppers provides anonymous tipping
   
   
3. Send email to the National Centre for Missing Persons and Unidentified Remains at:
   canadasmissing-disparuscanada@rcmp-grc.gc.ca
   

Canada's Missing | Case details

Cheers!

 

[Feme98]

Hi Feme98 - Canada has a database for missing persons and unidentified remains and Septic Tank Sam is in the database.

The case reference is 2014001122 and you can e-mail Crime Stoppers or the RCMP as follows -

If you have information on this case, please contact any of the following:

1. Tofield RCMP: (780)662-3353
   Reference Case#: 2012502446
   
   
2. Crime Stoppers: 1-800-222-TIPS(8477) or online at TipSoft - Web Tip Submission
   Crime Stoppers provides anonymous tipping
   
   
3. Send email to the National Centre for Missing Persons and Unidentified Remains at:
   canadasmissing-disparuscanada@rcmp-grc.gc.ca

Canada's Missing | Case details

Cheers!

Thank you so much for submitting this information! I will contact law enforcement and will keep you updated on what i'm told.

Stay safe friends.

 

[dotr]

This just popped up, looks interesting.
Started Ws thread..
CANADA - Murphy WILLIAMS, 35, Dawson Creek, BC,15 August 1974

https://ckpgtoday.ca/2019/08/01/cold-case-45th-anniversary-of-dawson-creek-missing-person/

Cold Case: 45th anniversary of Dawson Creek missing person
Aug 01, 2019

"DAWSON CREEK– An RCMP missing persons cold case will have it’s 45-year anniversary on August 15th.

Murphy Williams was last seen on the morning of August 15th, 1974 at a farm residence near Mile 30 on the Alaksa Highway where he had been working for the previous two days. Williams was reported missing by a family member in Fort St. John."

• Aboriginal
• 35-years-old (when he went missing)
• Approx. 170lbs
• Approx.5’8 in height"

 

[Feme98]

This just popped up, looks interesting.
Started Ws thread..
CANADA - Murphy WILLIAMS, 35, Dawson Creek, BC,15 August 1974

https://ckpgtoday.ca/2019/08/01/cold-case-45th-anniversary-of-dawson-creek-missing-person/

Cold Case: 45th anniversary of Dawson Creek missing person
Aug 01, 2019

"DAWSON CREEK– An RCMP missing persons cold case will have it’s 45-year anniversary on August 15th.

Murphy Williams was last seen on the morning of August 15th, 1974 at a farm residence near Mile 30 on the Alaksa Highway where he had been working for the previous two days. Williams was reported missing by a family member in Fort St. John."

• Aboriginal
• 35-years-old (when he went missing)
• Approx. 170lbs
• Approx.5’8 in height"

Wow, he truly remembles the UID, it would be good if a family member of Murphy submits a DNA sample for comparison

 

[MorbidLace]

Wow, he truly remembles the UID, it would be good if a family member of Murphy submits a DNA sample for comparison

They look strikingly similar. And the timelines seem to add up, as well. The only thing that I'm stuck on is that it's a 6 hour drive between Dawson Creek and Tofield, but assuming he was travelling to find work, that might not have been a problem. Also, there was a couple of years in-between when Williams went missing and when John Doe was discovered, so I guess time will tell.

This just popped up, looks interesting.
Started Ws thread..
CANADA - Murphy WILLIAMS, 35, Dawson Creek, BC,15 August 1974

https://ckpgtoday.ca/2019/08/01/cold-case-45th-anniversary-of-dawson-creek-missing-person/

Cold Case: 45th anniversary of Dawson Creek missing person
Aug 01, 2019

"DAWSON CREEK– An RCMP missing persons cold case will have it’s 45-year anniversary on August 15th.

Murphy Williams was last seen on the morning of August 15th, 1974 at a farm residence near Mile 30 on the Alaksa Highway where he had been working for the previous two days. Williams was reported missing by a family member in Fort St. John."

• Aboriginal
• 35-years-old (when he went missing)
• Approx. 170lbs
• Approx.5’8 in height"

I just called the Dawson Creek RCMP to let them know about this possible link!! They're going to look into it and let me know if anything comes of it. I will, of course, keep this thread updated as well!

 

[dotr]

They look strikingly similar. And the timelines seem to add up, as well. The only thing that I'm stuck on is that it's a 6 hour drive between Dawson Creek and Tofield, but assuming he was travelling to find work, that might not have been a problem. Also, there was a couple of years in-between when Williams went missing and when John Doe was discovered, so I guess time will tell.


I just called the Dawson Creek RCMP to let them know about this possible link!! They're going to look into it and let me know if anything comes of it. I will, of course, keep this thread updated as well!

Welcome to Ws MorbidLace, thanks!