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An article from the Star on October 9, 1990, gives a lot of interesting info. on this case.

Unfortunately, I have been unable to post it due to technical glitches with my computer, or my lousy skills.

It seems from what I've read that the police took the case very seriously at the time, and it seems that she was being stalked by at least one individual. If you look at the Star from Oct. to Dec. 1990, there were a number of articles on the case.

How it hasn't been solved is itself a mystery.
 
Chorley 8 caught this one, but thanks!
A quick search for MW and this came up,probably nothing to do with it as MW probably fairly common name, but just in case.. a blog detailing email scams refers to one from a Mabel Wong..
Number 4 scam..
http://soul-catcher.eu/?tag=mabel-wong
 
M. Wong: for sure the guy following her is the suspect - I understood it bothered her enough to tell people at work. Wonder if she saw him, had a description.
Dotr: yes common name but....just but.... it would be useful to know if any ID was missing.
 
http://forums.delphiforums.com/n/main.asp?webtag=KamallaRose&msg=423.10&gid=2007779854

http://www.crimeintoronto.com/2012/05/oliver-martin-and-dylan-ellis-hope.html

While anonymous Web chatter is always suspect, these two interesting theories have been posted online, re. Ellis/Martin.

Well if the relationship is correct it's relevant. Documents concerning AE are easily findable through google search a major operation for sure. Though a long time ago too mid 80s. It is a very useful find Darkblue many thanks wish I had more time for WS all of these cases deserve full attention- and yes your last post it sounds like they have the gun aren't saying so?
 
http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/443355--city-shocked-by-attack

This article a little more informative than most and nice pictures of the two men - mentions just three shots - mentions friends trying to revive them which makes sense - unsettling reading.

Good article and pic.have not read this article before.From same link the suggestion motive may have been car-jacking- if that was the case what about the bike and why did perp not then take car and why bloody up a seat you may soon be sitting in as car thief?
is there any remote chance perp was female?

"At this point, police are investigating the double homicide as a carjacking.

"The only motive that makes sense"
 
Thanks, everyone.

Yes, I think that maybe police seized the gun, or recovered bullets it fired at another crime scene somewhere.

The carjacking idea was early in the investigation, and has been long since discarded, because it makes no sense.

I know the police can't give up too much, so they are holding things back, as any investigator would.

If they seized the gun from someone, they likely roasted him until they realized that the gun had passed through too many hands to figure who had wielded it and when. Or, they just found it in the garbage somewhere.

I agree, Chorley8, I wish I had more time for this too!
 
●On Friday, December 2nd, 1977, William Hughes, 15, was stabbed in the heart by a stranger who had offered Hughes and his friend Alan Barker a ride. Hughes died in hospital on December 7th.
On the night of the murder, Hughes, of Pamcrest Dr., and Barker were at a billiard hall on Yonge St. near Steeles Ave. in north Toronto. A man offered the boys a ride, but when the vehicle reached Dufferin St. and Langstaff Rd. in Concord, just north of the city, the man turned around with a gun in one hand and a knife in the other, and demanded money. When the youths refused, the man stabbed Hughes and forced both teens out of the car. Barker ran to a nearby farm for help.
The murderer was described as slim but muscular, 5’ 10”, 190 lbs, with black wavy collar-length hair. He had a companion, a blond female between the ages of 16 and 19. The vehicle was a red 1974 or ’75 Monte Carlo with a white vinyl roof and red interior. In the ensuing months, police checked more than 300 cars of similar description but came up empty.

Billy's murder had a profound effect on my life, but this is about him not me. To begin with the statements made by Allan Barker that you quote and the events that took place are not the same.

The Billiard Hall was at the corner of Yonge St. and Moore Park and referred by all simply as the BRIO (it was an Italian Men's club sort of and it was the pinball machines that were the attraction to teens, I mention this as there was a pool hall called Family Billiards right on the S.E. corner of Yonge and Steeles, where you went to play billiards.

The man did not offer them a ride, but to sell them some drugs and they got into the car and were supposed to be going to get them, hence the long drive to a remote location, billy lived on Pamcrest (walk 200m 2 streets south turn east walk for another 800m or so. This account also mentions the killer pulled a gun and a knife, first I had heard of a gun.

Why Allan Barker chose to use this version of events, I do not know, but I can't begin to imagine the horror he went through that night, and knowing he was the only witness and to fear for his own safety would have been reasonable, how much it may have impacted the case I don't know.

The thing is he was not the only witness, there was the female passenger, and she approximately a decade later, haunted by the images of what took place and unable to live with it, called the police and turned herself in and identified the man who committed the murder. It was supposed to be a simple rip-off as they had no drugs but knew that Billy and Allan had the money, her I believe it was boyfriend at the time pulled the knife and demanded the money, but they refused and she referred to one as the Mouthy one or kid, and that would be Billy (he was not the back down sort) and I imagine things got out of control and the male ended up stabbing him in the heart leading to his subsequent death. There was never any plan to use violence but when a weapon is drawn and threats made it can always go bad.

While I know the killer was tried and convicted,I don't remember what the sentence was or if the female severed any time, but later this week I will be going out for lunch with a friend who was present the night at the pool hall the night they left with the man and and was questioned, but he could not provide a description, but he was also required to attend both the trial, and the appeal in case they wanted to call him as a witness. All he could have said is he does not recognize the defendant, etc. luckily he never had too.

Given the time since he would have been sentenced over 20 years he is likely a free man.

I found this a few weeks ago when I used google to try and remember the date it happened, and was surprised out of the dozens of attempts this was the only hit that I was able to get. I was born in 07/60 and skipped a grade, so was several years ahead of billy except my High School did not go well and I played a lot of pinball and hung out at the pool hall most of the time and that was Billy became part of my life, in fact several months after his death I dropped out and his death was a definite factor, but I returned the next year, he was so full of life. I still live less than a 10 min. walk from his home and have known the Hughes House for as long as I can remember, as I had 2 friends that lived on Pamcrest, one at the time of his murder.

Billy I am Sorry for not attending your funeral it was just too much, but I did mourn for you and still do, you are gone but never forgotten.

a Friend of Billy
 
I'm very sorry for the loss of your friend. I am sure he is in a much better place.

Thanks for the update, it must have been very difficult.
 
Thank you for your post with that update, friendofBilly and welcome to WS.
Sorry about your friend, but glad that CrimeSolver's documentation of this case helped to get a hit on google .
 
FriendofBilly, thank you for your corrections and for informing us that the case was actually solved. I'm embarrassed when I post solved cases, but I am only as accurate as the newspaper search engines, and if they leave me with a dead end, I can only assume a case remains unsolved.

Your post will stand as a tribute to your friend.:)
 
Just a quick note about a point dotr made above on Martin/Ellis.

I'm paraphrasing you here, dotr, but you asked if there was any remote chance the killer was female.

Excellent thinking. Why not?

We are conditioned to look for male criminals, as statistically, most crimes are committed by men. Far from all though.

The media reports the killer as a man, whereas it seems no one actually saw him/her.
 
Does anyone have a theory as to what could unite the murders of Erin Gilmour and Susan Tice? Is it correct that Susan Tice's ex-husband was in the finance world at a high level? Wealthy father wealthy husband (if this is correct) would be an unusual link surely? Not criticizing financial success but if this is not correct just suggesting the source of the crime could come from the shadow of that business world not random. There is a very short timeline with the Yorkville case as I understand it just minutes I think they said if her boyfriend had not stopped at the bank machine he would have interrupted the attack. Not an eloquent or overly informed post I know sorry just trying to start some interest.
 
In my opinion, it's highly unlikely there is a link between the victims beyond both being random victims of a rapist/killer.
The question is, why did he stop, if he did? Did he spot Gilmour's boyfriend entering the building, and the close call spooked him enough to stop?
This is the place where Erin Gilmour was murdered at 37 Hazelton Ave. She had just locked up the shop where she worked at Robin's Knits, and was heading to her upstairs apartment, which is the door seen in the background to the left of the pedestrian in this Google streetview shot:
Noname-20.jpg



The beige house in the centre below, 341 Grace St., is where Susan Tice was murdered four months before Gilmour. It is roughly 2 km from the Gilmour crime scene.
Noname2-3.jpg
 
Westergard was found guilty of D.P.'s murder, could he still be a poi in these unsolved cases?

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Crime/2011/12/29/19177601.html


"This is expected to happen in 2012 -- as will scrutiny of Westergard's movements from 1973 to 1994.

There are many unresolved murdered women in Toronto during that time -- including Lori Marilyn Pinkus and Cheryl Nelson in 1991, Patricia Ann Stewart in 1990, Kelly Mombouraquette in 1987, Lorelei Brose in 1985, Christine Prince in 1982, and Donna Stearne and Wendy Tedford in 1973.

All these cases remain unsolved and there is nothing to link any of them to Westergard.

"With every unsolved case we look for connections, " said Ryan. "We always keep an open mind."

OPP Commissioner Chris Lewis said his cold case squad also looks for matches for similar unsolved cases across Ontario.

As of now the cases of Gilmour, Tice and the others remain unsolved"
 
Maybe this might help someone remember something....bbm



"Now Sean Gilmour, Erin’s younger brother, says his family is offering $150,000 to anyone who can help solve the case, in addition to the $50,000 reward already offered by police.

Sean told CP24 Wednesday that the holidays are a particularly difficult time for the family.

“She was a fantastic sister to me and my younger brother,” Sean said. “She was just starting out in life. She had just recently moved out of the house and had her career and her whole life to live.

"And unfortunately that was taken away from all of us.”

Anyone with information in the case is asked to contact Toronto police or call Crime Stoppers anonymously at 1-800-222-TIPS (8477)"


Read more: http://www.cp24.com/news/family-of-...offers-150-000-reward-1.1086992#ixzz2JIjXYfTm
 
Anyone know why Susan Tice is buried in the Leith cemetery?

(This is a pioneer cemetery where according to a historical plaque Tom Thomson the painter is buried though come to think of it that is impossible since his body was never recovered from Algonquin Park).

I had thought she was from Calgary and hadn't lived here for that long though maybe she had a history, family in Ontario before Calgary (?).

Erin Gilmour: thanks for the photo C.S. could never figure out exactly where her apartment was. I believe the theory is that she opened the door to a knock since she was expecting the boyfriend any second. Have to wonder if she brought someone back from the store I mean a friend or aquaintance or someone from the store maybe she had something to show them or lend them a book, record, piece of clothing (?) If I remember correctly she had been getting threatening messages so maybe it is exactly as police say. But why then early afternoon, late evening very dangerous for perpetrator obviously so we might guess.....very driven?

I mentioned this on another thread and now think I am wrong but will just float this here: I thought that some years ago say around 10 a child was attacked in a school and they linked DNA to these two crimes. I must be mistaken (??). I do remember that it was deemed very strange the fact of a child and previously an adult victim or victims decades apart. Maybe at some point someone will straighten me out on this point, someone who remembers media reports.
 
Westergard's known crimes have the earmarks of those of a serial sex-killer. I wonder when exactly in '73 that imbroglio occurred with his co-worker and wife. If it was early in the year, it could have been a trigger for doing Tedford/Stearne, though they weren't sexually assaulted.
 

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