Canadian hostage, wife & children freed from Afghanistan, Oct 2017 #1

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This is not to be a discrimatory comment.

The people living in Pakistan are more familiar with the direct politics, their government, the religion of Islam and any possible radicalization hidden behind the reason of religion. Being over here, I have such a minor knowledge myself. I have heard (don't know how reliable this is) that news in Afghanistan and Pakistan can still travel through people vs mainstream media.

If the newspapers from Pakistan don't even believe JB story, I think it speaks volumes.
 
Indeed and he applied to be wiki admin because he was disturbed by further edits or critiques. He did not receive sufficient votes for his self nominated role as admin. The critiques are relling
 
Indeed and he applied to be wiki admin because he was disturbed by further edits or critiques. He did not receive sufficient votes for his self nominated role as admin. The critiques are relling
SABBM

:gaah: ..... :hilarious: .... :floorlaugh:

Just feeling he thinks he's pretty important !!!
Imo.

Sorry... it's getting late here and I'm waiting for my Key Lime pie to finish baking -- bringing it to my son's house later tomorrow .
 
I found this reference in Wikipedia 2009:
The copyright holder of this file, Joshua Sherurcij, allows anyone to use it for any purpose, provided that the copyright holder is properly attributed. Redistribution, derivative work, commercial use, and all other use is permitted.
Attribution: Joshua Sherurcij

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:JUnaijd1.jpg
 
Not if it's okay to copy and paste a cached version. Please delete if not allowed...


A Canadian man held hostage with his wife and children for five years by Islamist militants linked to the Taliban and al-Qaeda has said the group tried “desperately” to recruit him, before killing his unborn child when he refused.

Joshua Boyle, 34, said that militants from the feared Haqqani network also tried to abort two subsequent children when they became suspicious that his wife, Caitlan Coleman, 31, was pregnant. Mr Boyle told The Times that their captors poisoned Ms Coleman’s food with oestrogen to induce miscarriage. The couple resorted to burying food in the ground to ensure a safe supply and protect the children.

Mr Boyle, his American wife and their three children, who were born in captivity, were freed by Pakistani commandos three weeks ago. The raid brought an end to the horrific ordeal suffered by the couple since they were kidnapped while hiking in Afghanistan on their honeymoon in 2012.

Ms Coleman was five months pregnant and gave birth to a son soon after. By the time of their release, she had had another boy and a daughter, born only weeks ago. Since they were freed the couple have revealed further horrors, including an allegation that Ms Coleman was raped by one of their guards.

Mr Boyle said the militants “desperately wanted me to join [the group] but I’d have none of it.

“I have standards, it’s what sets me apart from them,” he said.

The consequences of his refusal were terrible. Ms Coleman has said that when she conceived again, their guards spiked her food with oestrogen. The Taliban has since denied this, claiming she miscarried naturally, but Mr Boyle said that their captors admitted what they had done at the time.

“They did tell us after the forced abortion how it was done, which made it easier to avoid on the next two pregnancies,” he said. “We buried ‘safe’ food in the dirt floor in some houses before she was pregnant .”

The couple tried to keep the pregnancies a seceret but Mr Boyle said that the militants became suspicious when Ms Coleman conceived two further times and began dosing their food again. Mr Boyle delivered his second son and daughter by torchlight.

The Haqqani network recruited Osama bin Laden in the 1980s and now runs the Taliban’s lucrative line in kidnapping. The Taliban said yesterday that the health of another American held by the Haqqanis, Kevin King, a university professor, was deteriorating.

The insurgents have threatened to kill Mr King and his Australian colleague Timothy Weekes unless one of their senior commanders, Anas Haqqani, is released from death row in Afghanistan.

Ms Coleman has said she was raped as punishment after guards discovered the couple had a concealed pen and were passing notes to people around them. Mr Boyle said that, far from being religious zealots, his captors had little knowledge of Islam and the Haqqanis were mere ****s.

“You could always tell when an actual Taliban representative had come to the prison compound because suddenly all of our remarkably secular, mercenary guards would be wearing black turbans and reciting Quran, something they never did unless there was a pious visitor,” he said.

“Their opposition is not based on religious fervour [but] . . . a primitive love of blood sports, the desire to dominate, rape, kill and be feared.”
 
Ok. The Haqqani are so hard-up for members that they were "desperate" to recruit an untrained Canadian who wandered into their territory with his pregnant wife. That sounds totally believable. There may be some truth to this claim, but the word "desperate" has to be a major exaggeration -- and I suspect the Haqqani had some reason to believe he might be amenable to joining them. Perhaps it was simply the fact that JB appears to be a Muslim; perhaps something more sinister.

Would dosing food with estrogen actually be a way to induce a miscarriage? Someone earlier in the thread had suggested that wasn't the case, but I don't know if any medical types have weighed in.

"I have standards. It is what sets me apart from them" is an odd thing to say. I don't think the average person needs to search for ways in which they are not like their terrorist captors. This all begs the question of what JB's "standards" are.
 
The “safe food” and oestrogen poisoning stories are so absurd that it makes one seriously question Boyle’s mental stability. If his captors were desperate to kill his children, born or unborn, they had many effective ways of doing so. As for burying food - what, were they given huge supplies of canned meals and a digging tool? And if they believed the Taliban wanted to murder their babies, why the desperate urge to have more pregnancies??
 
Funny major Canadian papers/TV are not picking up these new details. And from what I've read, estrogen would not cause a miscarriage. It was not harsh enough. The medical site said only a particular prescription medication could halt a fetus growth after 8 weeks and it wouldn't cause a miscarriage. It would stop the development of the fetus and then the mother would miscarry. It said that clarification, for and reason. I'm only paraphrasing (in the middle of kid's Halloween stuff...)

A side note, JB really needs to google his details before he speaks. Maybe worried that computer thumbprint would be caught. He is smart, smart enough to not go to the US...

http://allonhealth.com/miscarriage/miscarriage-and-estrogen.htm
 
The “safe food” and oestrogen poisoning stories are so absurd that it makes one seriously question Boyle’s mental stability. If his captors were desperate to kill his children, born or unborn, they had many effective ways of doing so. As for burying food - what, were they given huge supplies of canned meals and a digging tool? And if they believed the Taliban wanted to murder their babies, why the desperate urge to have more pregnancies??

Joshua Boyle, 34, said that militants from the feared Haqqani network also tried to abort two subsequent children when they became suspicious that his wife, Caitlan Coleman, 31, was pregnant. Mr Boyle told The Times that their captors poisoned Ms Coleman’s food with oestrogen to induce miscarriage. The couple resorted to burying food in the ground to ensure a safe supply and protect the children.


“They did tell us after the forced abortion how it was done, which made it easier to avoid on the next two pregnancies,” he said. “We buried ‘safe’ food in the dirt floor in some houses before she was pregnant .”
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/taliban-drugged-food-to-kill-our-baby-says-joshua-boyle-9qm906lm9


Joshua Boyle is either severely mentally ill or he believes everyone else on Earth is an idiot. He lost in excess of 150 pounds of weight while captive. He and Caitlan clearly didn’t have month’s of extra food which didn’t require refrigeration and could be buried in the ground in their cell the size of a bathtub.

Attention Joshua Boyle: Estrogen is not a abortifacient drug. Fetal death is caused by medications that block progesterone.
 
“You could always tell when an actual Taliban representative had come to the prison compound because suddenly all of our remarkably secular, mercenary guards would be wearing black turbans and reciting Quran, something they never did unless there was a pious visitor,” he said.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/taliban-drugged-food-to-kill-our-baby-says-joshua-boyle-9qm906lm9


The Taliban is infamous for mass murder, castrating living children, gang rapes, banning education for women, and horrifying, demonic actions, but Joshua Boyle believes they are pious.

 
"Joshua Boyle is either severely mentally ill or he believes everyone else on Earth is an idiot"

Hit the nail on the head, twice.... I think both Gunslinging Granny's observations are correct. IMO
 
Joshua Boyle has blamed everyone but himself for the demise of his unborn child and the permanent psychological damage to his wife and children. Pious men accept responsibility for their poor decisions and admit they are the first among sinners.
 
The “safe food” and oestrogen poisoning stories are so absurd that it makes one seriously question Boyle’s mental stability. If his captors were desperate to kill his children, born or unborn, they had many effective ways of doing so. As for burying food - what, were they given huge supplies of canned meals and a digging tool? And if they believed the Taliban wanted to murder their babies, why the desperate urge to have more pregnancies??

EXACTLY my thoughts! Such an absurd story!
 
I’m sure both the Canadian and U.S. governments are paying close attention to every word JB and his wife speak. Even though their mental health is suspect, their actions in Afghanistan become even more suspect with every self-serving word they utter. They are trying waaay to hard to establish themselves as innocent victims of the Haqqani, and with every statement they are digging a bigger hole for themselves than they ever saw in Afghanistan or Pakistan. How many released captives have we ever heard spout off like this? Those poor children!
JMO
 
Bellbaby made a comment, "I think he gaslighted his wife". This rings true. She can't carry a baby to term (massive stress / illness / poor nutrition) though he's persuaded her to travel with him through the 'stans (at best) or to link up with Islamists in Afghanistan, when pregnant. So he blames a miscarriage on rogue, un-Islamic locals and feeds her a story about how her unborn baby might have been damaged. Maybe he believed it, maybe he gaslighted himself as well.

Then, he says the rape/defilement story applies to a period in which they were separated by their captors, so his account depends on what she told him. What if she lied to him too? Perhaps to persuade him of her fear & vulnerability?

There's something really wrong when most of us feel that the Taliban is a more reliable source of information than their hostages.

God knows what actually happened, but one thing that seems evident is that we aren't getting a true account so far, or anything like one. To what extent should one make allowances for mental illness? It is possible that Boyle had some kind of severe personality disorder, involving NPD-like symptoms such as grandiosity, before they left. Caitlan Coleman likely put her fate in the hands of a man whose behaviour was highly idiosyncratic and unpredictable. And after what they've both endured, the mental scrambling is likely to be severe.

It is important that their accounts be thoroughly dissected and understood. So much effort went into their rescue, and lives were put in jeopardy.
 
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