Cancer and short tempers

[Linda7NJ]

The top two reasons children are physically abused is toileting issues and holiday stress by parents with no prior KNOWN history

 

[txsvicki]

We discussed in another thread about early menapause after having your tubes tied. Did P have that done?

thanks for the clarification of the washers location. so everything was a done deal on the second floor.

I should have posted surgically induced menopause and I think that Patsy had everything removed, tubes, ovaries, everything due to the ovarian cancer. Also, I've been trying to find a thread to post this so I'll do it here. I know that a heavy duty washer was in the basement and others on the second floor. If Patsy had all that, I just can't believe that she wouldn't have had a coffee maker either in that common area on the second floor or even up in some area of her room. It was a long walk to go down 2 flights of stairs after having cancer just to get down to the kitchen and make coffee AFTER showering (John) and full makeup daily (Patsy).

 

[Hunnydolll]

I agree with you. I had stage 3 breast cancer, and it ain't for sissies:boohoo: 9 1/2 years now:clap: I'm just telling you this, because everytime Patsy Ramsey said she had OC and knew what her priorites were, I used to cringe - sometimes cancer can clarify things, and sometimes they complicate things, but most of the time things stay pretty much the same. The same stuff that bothered you before C, bother you after and blah, blah, blah

I think I know how your sister is feeling - usually, the diagnosis, surgery, treatment comes so fast, and doctors, etc., can seem so callous, that I think she might be going through post traumatic stress disorder. While all this stuff is going on, you don't have time to process it or think about it. Later, on, whether you know it or not, you're angry/sad/scared and a little nutzo from what you've been through - and self recognition of all these emotions is not upper most in your mind when going thru chemo/treatment - you're concentrating on getting better and suppressing these emotions. (and then you have all the goobers telling you that if only you have a positive attitude you'll get better - I positived all over the place and was still sick as hell - some people get better, and some don't, and that's pretty much it, my baby sissie died last year of OC) Hunnydoll, I don't know how close you are to your sister, but if you are close, you might want to tell her that her lashing out is a symptom of PTSD and she should tell her doctor because there are all kinds of treatments now - even physical therapy really helped me - the PT said I didn't have muscles in my neck, I had auto shocks, boing, boing, boing...:crazy:

Thanks Bev. I hope you're doing well now. My sister is starting to put things in perspective a little better. She has a psychologist that she sees now, and I think she really tries hard to keep herself together. She has big highs and very low lows, and she definitely has post-traumatic stress from this experience. The fear and anger of it all definitely make her lash out at times, but it's private - she only does it in front of me and my other sister and her son and husband - the ones who are closest to her. Not anybody from the outside. I have talked to her about it, and she's starting to take note of it more. Nobody really knows what goes on behind closed doors. People may look perfect from the outside, but a totally different story from the inside.

 

[Hunnydolll]

Hi Hunnydolll,

Very good point! I've thought about the anger, rage, cancer combination many times because my sister has also gone through a very rough time with her cancer (not that all cancers aren't rough) and we've watched her personality change drastically.
Three major life-saving emergency surgeries in 8 weeks and her surgeon having her on a very strong pain medication after each of the surgeries...well, my sister has become addicted.
Not the addiction you see on TV, and not an addiction anyone outside the close family would notice. But an addiction where her temper is off the wall for the smallest of things.

We don't know if it's the actual cancer, the treatments or the drugs but something has changed her temperament and it's not a nice thing to watch if you happen to be there when she's exploding.

Thanks Amity...I definitely think it's a combination of all you said - the drugs, the cancer, the treatments, the doctors, the scares, the unknown, the fear, etc. It does something to change you, at least is has in my sister. Not all of it is bad...but she does have these moments where she can't control her lashing out. For the most part she's trying to live her life to the best she can.

 

[Hunnydolll]

You are thinking exactly what i have been thinking.

I think Patsy state of mind at the time would be very interesting to look into. My guess is that:

• Having had cancer she would be wanting to make the most of every day - unfortunately i think she over-did this, with pagents and social events - thereby exhausting herself even more.
• Have ridiculous expectations of making the "perfect life"
• Knowing that she may not be around forever she was trying to cram alot (too much) into life, both hers and jonbenets.
• Tired people/sick people = cranky people - i think she was short tempered at home.

Christmas day I think she was

• really looking forward to getting away - Christmas is great fun but also busy and stressful
• dissapointed that jonbenet "rejected" her carefully chosed "perfect" gift.
• dissapointed that Jonbenet had started to want to choose her own clothes and "rejected" the clothing choice Patsy had wanted her to wear.
• Perhaps peeved off that Jonbenet (who was also not well - and maybe grumpy too) was starting to act like what she may have percieved as a spoilt brat at times.
• really peeved off when she discovered that she had wet sheets to wash and dry before 6.30am the next morning
• really peeved off that she had soiled pants that had been left and now would probably need to be soaked, washed and dried before 6.30am the next morning. (pretty much an annoying and even impossible task - soiled pant would need to be soaked quite a while to get the smell out.)

Then I think about what Jonebent may have been like that day. Every-one says she was an angel - but just stop to think about it - maybe she was just a normal child who was frustrated, exhausted, a little spoilt, a bit ashamed of the whole toilet thing. I have a 5 year old daughter of my own and just reading about all the activities JB was part of I know for sure it would make my daughter tired, cranky and unresonable - cause she would be exhausted. Also my daughter has been a little spoilt and it has just been beginning to show now at age 5 - so i can imagine tha JB may have lately been showing some independance and attitudes that Patsy didn't like to see.

I think JB would have been tired and trying Patsys patience because of:

• some late nights (the night before she fell asleep in the car)
• not feeling well that day
• didnt like the special gift from Patsy - mom may feel she was ungrateful
• didn't want to wear the clothes her mom picked out
• stress/excitement of Christmas made her soil pants
• wetting the bed

I am thinking the whole thing was just a toilet rage incident that went very wrong. I am sure the parents were very upset and wish they could turn back the clock and the whole thing was just to try to take the blame off of them onto kidnappers or child molesters.

Lily good post...especially the part where she's cramming alot into her life at once. My sister does that and she seems very manic at times. I watch her clean the house, cooking a 9-course meal, doing this project, doing that project - all the while snapping at everyone. It's a way to try to be and feel normal when obviously something is very wrong (her cancer, her fear,her anger) and trying to ignore it and make believe everything is perfect. Like I said, in my sister's case only "we" meaning those closest to her see it. She doesn't do it in front of friends or outsiders. To them she is just someone who is dealing well with her illness from the outside.

 

[BBB167893]

"I am glad you had a good perspective in dealing with your bedwetters. I am aquainted with a family whose son is a bedwetter, and he is treated like the family idiot by his parents and sibling. I have been shocked to see the way this boy is treated as a result of his problem, and I think, if they're this awful in front of neighbors, what are they like behind closed doors?"

"Not all parents of bedwetters are as patient or level-headed as you."

"The top two reasons children are physically abused is toileting issues and holiday stress by parents with no prior KNOWN history"

Damn straight!

I've told the story of my father, how cancer made him short-tempered. Same with my grandmother. She lived (still alive, thank you) but it took a LONG time for her to readjust to life's little speedbumps.

It's more common than we'd like to think.

 

[cindysnow3]

People may look perfect from the outside, but a totally different story from the inside.

This statement has never been spoken any better. To this day I am still estranged from my entire family due to physical, mental, and sexual abuse that took place in my home during my childhood and, yes everyone always thought "We" also had the "Picture" perfect family. We were always threatened what would happen if we told anything. So as you can guess, we always wore what ya call "masks" and I hate to say, I think alot of people these days do the same think. They aren't what they appear to be.

 

[K. Taylor]

Everyone deals with cancer differently. Who knows how Patsy dealt with it, but I appreciate people pointing out that not all cancer patients become beautific angels once their diagnosis, because a lot of IDIers use that as evidence that Patsy couldn't have done it. The fact is you're a human being before, during and after cancer - it doesn't magically endow you with powers that make you impervious to frustration, anger, etc.

 

[panthera]

Everyone deals with cancer differently. Who knows how Patsy dealt with it, but I appreciate people pointing out that not all cancer patients become beautific angels once their diagnosis, because a lot of IDIers use that as evidence that Patsy couldn't have done it. The fact is you're a human being before, during and after cancer - it doesn't magically endow you with powers that make you impervious to frustration, anger, etc.

Fortunately, no one in my family has been a victim of cancer, thank God. However, I believe that what a person's disposition is before the illness determines how they handle it. Patsy had been in beauty pageants herself, and was a perfectionist. She wanted JonBenet to be the "perfect child" ~ beautiful and win many contests. I can see her being upset with the little girl's bedwetting, just as any other mother might be. This might have been more traumatic for Patsy, if medication had caused mood swings or irrational behavior; especially with the stress of the holidays, the planned trip, and having another child and husband. I don't want to think she could've killed JonBenet, but there have always been two things that haven't made sense with this crime, in my opinion: the ransom note and the irony that John Ramsey found JonBenet in the basement, and then carried her body upstairs and into the living room. It was almost as if he knew she was down there.

 

[booradley]

I was a bedwetter, too, so I know firsthand that the child cannot help it.

That is sooo sad for that little boy---how terrible! I mean, HE CAN'T HELP IT! How old is he? Poor guy......there's no reason for that. It's wet sheets!!! BIG DEAL....in the grand scheme of things, it's just a non-issue!

That's why I am having such a hard time wrapping my brain around the idea of Patsy raging over JonBenet wetting the bed. I don't buy the "Patsy was very stressed out" story:

* Patsy didn't have a job outside the home. No work-related stress.
* Patsy had a housekeeper, in addition to no job. It's hard enough for a working mom who is working 8-5, Monday thru Friday, to come home and take care of a house and chores, and kids--often more than 2. THAT is stress.
* Patsy didn't have any worries about money i.e., living paycheck to paycheck, how's this bill going to get paid, etc? Money, or lack of money, wasn't an issue. No stress there.
* Her children were healthy, and excelled. No stress there.
* She wasn't a single parent--I know John was working alot, but she was married. No stress such as a single parent would have.

So, I don't really buy into the whole issue of Patsy being stressed. I know that cancer can be a HUGE stress, but it just doesn't balance out for me. Wasn't she in remission anyway, at the time of the crime? I'm sure she had some stressors from time to time, but compared to what other normal working mothers face every single day, I think her stress was minute. I could be wrong....but geez, I am not normally a stressed out person, and I work and have 3 kids, but I do have my moments sometimes, when I feel like there isn't enough hours in the day. However, if you take away my job outside the home, give me a housekeeper, give my husband a gigantic raise so we have ooodles of money coming out of our ears........sounds like smooth sailing to me!

Think again: If you think staying home with your three kids would be stress free if a magic wand was waved, think again. I have three kids too and stay at home. I have a kind,loving spouse, a good income and a weekly housekeeper. I also have tons of stress! Stress that comes from the raising three healthy, smart, well adjusted kids who fight, lose things, cry because they don't want to ride the bus, cry because their best friend is suddenly not so anymore, stress because a shooter went to my local high school yesterday and shot two innocent kids, stress because my recently widowed mom is lonely and I live to far away to be there for her every minute. I know that " we priviledged" moms are entitled to our stress too. It always tees me off when you working moms get all judgmental of those of us who choose to stay at home and parent.

 

[Beyond Belief]

hmm the stay at home Mom thing really is stressful. Everytime the phone rang it was somebody wanting me to do something for them because they were at work. Ugh.

 

[cindysnow3]

hmm the stay at home Mom thing really is stressful. Everytime the phone rang it was somebody wanting me to do something for them because they were at work. Ugh.

Been there and done that now have a grandson

 

[julianne]

Think again: If you think staying home with your three kids would be stress free if a magic wand was waved, think again. I have three kids too and stay at home. I have a kind,loving spouse, a good income and a weekly housekeeper. I also have tons of stress! Stress that comes from the raising three healthy, smart, well adjusted kids who fight, lose things, cry because they don't want to ride the bus, cry because their best friend is suddenly not so anymore, stress because a shooter went to my local high school yesterday and shot two innocent kids, stress because my recently widowed mom is lonely and I live to far away to be there for her every minute. I know that " we priviledged" moms are entitled to our stress too. It always tees me off when you working moms get all judgmental of those of us who choose to stay at home and parent.

Whoaaaa...you TOTALLY misunderstood my post. Please don't call me judgemental--because that is the last thing I am. I am sorry my post got you so mad!! I definately didn't mean to imply that stay at home moms have no stress--and if my post DID imply that, I apologize, because I know for a fact that it is not a no-stress zone.

I also have 3 kids--and I know both sides of the coin because I only work while they are in school. I don't work during the summer (try not to) and am home for them after school and on weekends. I am working while they are in school. I am lucky in that way, but I wouldn't call myself "priviledged."
What I said (and meant) if you re-read my post is that Patsy didn't have any job-related stress from working outside the home. I didn't say she didn't work, I didn't say she didn't have a job----I said she didn't work OUTSIDE THE HOME, so she didn't have stress related to an outside the home job.

As far as her having a housekeeper--I DO think that that takes ALOT of stress away--as far as her never having to worry about having the time to vaccum the house, mop the floors, scrub the toilets, and the basic mundane housework that most families have to deal with. So, in addition to not having to deal with crabby bosses and hormonal co-workers every day, she was able to stay at home, and couple that with the fact that she had hired a woman to come clean her house for her everday, that subtracts alot of stress that the everyday family isn't able to subtract.

What I am saying is that with most families where both parents work outside the home, there are more stressors that come into play related to everyday things. I know that if I never worked outside the home, and in addition, had a hired woman to come clean my house for me, that it would deduct a certain amount of stress.

My post wasn't about the the age-old debate of stay at home moms vs. working moms. With 3 kids of my own, I'd be the very first person to say that there is no job in the entire world that is more important, and more fulfilling, than raising children. Absolutely none.

Of course all Moms have stress, (that's obvious)--par for the course & comes with the territory--whether they work outside the home or not! I'm just saying that when she didn't have to work and stayed home instead, PLUS having a woman hired to clean her house so she didn't have to, it certainly makes things a heck of alot easier when you have less on your plate to deal with-thus, less stress.