Casey & Family Psychological Profile #1

[Amma]

Amma - I think it has to be more than just abuse. at some point, she failed to develop a conscience or empathy for others. that usually happens when a child fails to bond with the mother. for whatever reason, Casey failed to bond with Cindy as a baby. that thus made her unable to bond with Caylee, or empathize with any of her victims. If she is so callous as to lead JG on for months thinking he was the father, to steal from her own parents and grandparents, to steal from her friends, and to lie to everyone...why should we think it should be different with her own child?

That was just one of several contributors/risk factors I listed. The bonding issue is #1. But not the only. There are several things that come together to create the ingredients for success so to speak.

 

[Law_girl41]

Amma - I think it has to be more than just abuse. at some point, she failed to develop a conscience or empathy for others. that usually happens when a child fails to bond with the mother. for whatever reason, Casey failed to bond with Cindy as a baby. that thus made her unable to bond with Caylee, or empathize with any of her victims. If she is so callous as to lead JG on for months thinking he was the father, to steal from her own parents and grandparents, to steal from her friends, and to lie to everyone...why should we think it should be different with her own child?

I agree with that. You know, Cindy always defends casey as a good mother, and most people in their circle did. but what defines good parenting & bonding with them?? What is their version of a good mother? BUt what I havent heard and this is just my take- No one is saying or said anything about how good of a mother Cindy was to Casey. SO that is just an observation of mine. Cindy very well may have bonded more with Lee than Casey. I heard several statement or read them rather that Casey would make in order to slight her mother on any oportunity she got. There just may have been a disconnect in their relationship.

 

[s_finch]

Amma - I think it has to be more than just abuse. at some point, she failed to develop a conscience or empathy for others. that usually happens when a child fails to bond with the mother. for whatever reason, Casey failed to bond with Cindy as a baby. that thus made her unable to bond with Caylee, or empathize with any of her victims. If she is so callous as to lead JG on for months thinking he was the father, to steal from her own parents and grandparents, to steal from her friends, and to lie to everyone...why should we think it should be different with her own child?

I think you are right and not trying to be a smart butt, but in reference to the bolded part above.....I think it's obvious from Cindy's behavior why Casey didn't bond with her, Cindy is a Narcisstic, tyrannical dictator.

I remember what Rev. G said, "Casey was desperate to get out of that house"..... I think Casey had a very miserable life growing up and due to various issues grew into a sociopath.

One other thought I've been wanting to make, I think Casey is enjoying CA making a fool of herself in the national media....Casey is sitting back saying "see what craziness I've been putting up with all my life!" ...and she's enjoying watching Cindy squirm and fight. Casey may go to jail, but psychologically Cindy is going down with her and that's o.k. with Casey.

 

[DAWN TREADER]

Given her friends independent lifestyle I would imagine Casey was very anxious to get out from under her parent's watchful and controlling eye.

 

[magic-cat]

What is most upsetting to me about CA is that when she was ALONE with Caylee how she MAY have been her TRUE self and how this must have frightened Caylee...I am also concerned over her ability to deceive everyone for 2 years into believing she had a job which did not exist and WHAT she was doing with Caylee every one of those days when she would take her SOMEWHERE...where was that and what DID that poor sweet little baby ACTUALLY have to endure...The sociopath can and will fool everyone, but when they are alone with someone they feel power over they are often mean and hurtful...I should know-one of my brothers is a textbook sociopath, and I am so frightened of him that he does not even KNOW where I live...

 

[mindyme]

Casey's a bad bad person regardless of the proper name.

I used to work for a man whose daughter was so much like Casey it is amazing.

Her parents believed everything she said and upheld everything she did. Stole, lied, drugs, neglected her child, yet they took her side without fail.

She is the reason I left that very good job. It was like working at the Mad Hatter's Tea Party every day the stuff she pulled and then her dad, my boss would tell me what he needed me to do to clean up her latest mess. No real work got done in that office just consant chaos.

My boss (her dad) was just like Cindy. Say one thing than completely change it when he needed to protect her. Leaving me still acting one the first thing I was told to do.

I had sons in college and one in law school. Needed the money and benfits. But if I had not left I would have had an ole timey nervous break down.

I feel for the people who are having to deal with the Anthonys.

 

[armywife210]

I think you are right and not trying to be a smart butt, but in reference to the bolded part above.....I think it's obvious from Cindy's behavior why Casey didn't bond with her, Cindy is a Narcisstic, tyrannical dictator.

I remember what Rev. G said, "Casey was desperate to get out of that house"..... I think Casey had a very miserable life growing up and due to various issues grew into a sociopath.

One other thought I've been wanting to make, I think Casey is enjoying CA making a fool of herself in the national media....Casey is sitting back saying "see what craziness I've been putting up with all my life!" ...and she's enjoying watching Cindy squirm and fight. Casey may go to jail, but psychologically Cindy is going down with her and that's o.k. with Casey.

I am not bashing Cindy in saying this but I really wonder if she is an alcoholic. It's a mixture of how she carries herself, and a certain look about her. I can't explain it right now.

 

[Brini]

Future: I really like your posts. Very informative. However, I did want to point out that anti-social (or sociopathic, psycopathic) personality disorder is listed in the DSM IV as a "mental disorder". It is thought to be somewhat treatable now with a combination of medication and intensive psychotherapy, although I'm not very confident about the success of such treatment. (My source is psychiatric evaluations of opposing parties in custody cases I have litigated). But, it is a diagnosable disorder that is treated by psychiatrists. I think most of us realize that casey, no matter what is "wrong" with her, does not fit the category of not guilty by reason of insanity, because she knew what she was doing and knew it was wrong. But, one can be mentally ill without being legally insane. There are tons of mentally ill people in prison who were rightfully convicted - the illness does not usually clear one from responsibility in any way. That said, I'm still trying to figure out if a mental condition or disorder falls under the umbrella of "mental illness".

But, sociopathy doesn't respond well to treatment. Of course, you are right-- it doesn't fit the legal definition, either.

As a friend of mine would say, "Wish her luck in thenext incarnation."

 

[Brini]

I am not bashing Cindy in saying this but I really wonder if she is an alcoholic. It's a mixture of how she carries herself, and a certain look about her. I can't explain it right now.

There are what they call "impaired nurses."

 

[Brini]

I've been reading about malignant narcissism and was not suprised to hear one of Nancy Grace's guests tonight touch on the subject of narcissism.

Here's one of my bookmarked websites on the topic some might also find interesting:

http://www.narcissism.operationdoubles.com/

:wave: DT

That's prolly why she worked harder at creating the illusion of having a good job at Universal than she would holding a REAL job. She had to look like someone important and interesting.

 

[Brini]

Yeah, I think the standards are very, very different. If I remember from law school (I don't do crim law), not guilty by reason of insanity meant the person did not understand the nature of what they were doing (such as strangling someone but thinking they are squeezing a lemon) or the person did not think what they did was wrong (such as Andrea Yates thinking that if she did not kill her kids, they would not go to heaven, so what she did was right under the eyes of God). Most mentally ill people would not fall under either category. They can be hideously mentally ill, under the table in Court with full blown psychotic hallucinations, but still guilty as sin, as long as their illness did not cause them to not understand what the nature of what they were doing or that it was wrong. It is a VERY hard defense and they have to be able to prove they were legally insane. I don't believe anyone has been deemed not guilty by reason of insanity due to a personality disroder like sociopathology (they do call it anti-social personality disorder now, instead of sociopathic), and I don't think anyone should be able to get by with that kind of defense. These types know exactly what they are doing.
Anyhow, I, like you, am also and have been very interested in the "why" of criminal behavior. It drives me nuts to not understand what creates such monsters. And I've often wondered what would happen if you put these types together on an island or in a cell. Would be interesting!

Personality disordered people are not insane. They are "lacking" something. They never got past infantile self-obsession. I've heard them called "throwbacks," on occasion. Psychologists often call it a "characterological" issue or deficiency.

Is M'Naughton still the insanity determinant?

 

[Brini]

A psych eval was done, IIRC, in connection with casey's bid for bond. But, the results have been sealed. On another note, it appears that all the personality disorders - histrionic, anti-social, narcisstic and bordeline, tedn to go hand in hand. In other words, people that have one, often have others, sometimes even all. Wikipedia has a lot to say on the subject of personality disorders and how they relate to one another!

A friend of mine would say, "She has a nice collection of Axis IIs."

 

[Brini]

it's hard for me to tell the difference between a borderline personality and a sociopath, because they both involve such a high degree of narcissism and manipulation.

On a personal note, I once dated a sociopath. charming, good-looking, very successful - very narcissistic. in retrospect, all of his emotions just seemed fake - he just never seemed to be able to generate any genuine care or concern for anyone else. we were dating in secret because we worked together. well, he thinks he has me in his grip, tells me if anyone ever finds out, that he'll cut my throat. he said this, and he was serious, and luckily it was still the early stages and I didn't have any "serious" feelings for him yet, because I was out of there so fast!

They make great corporate CEOs. Or, even heads of state.

 

[mindyme]

I have thought from the beginning Cindy seems like she keeps a few drinks in her.

 

[Brini]

To sum it up...sociopaths break societal norms and are viewed more as criminals than mentally ill. It is NOT a diagnosis.

In my experience there is a presumption of environmental issues (some might argue genetics play a role) that is the underlying cause. With that in mind, when this case broke my thoughts were what's going on in the family that would cause the behavior that CA has demonstrated? As this case has progressed, lots of info has come out about family issues/history. I think it's only the tip of the ice berg. On the surface it looks like an intact family with productive and educated parents. The more we learn, there is a difficult history that has gotten CA to the point of demonstrating such significant and pervasive sociopathic behavior.

In my mind there isn't a question of IF she's a sociopath. My question has been what has CAUSED it?

Here's some general info you might find interesting.

Sociopaths often have histories of childhood abuse. Many have parents who abused alcohol or other substances. None of these possible causes, however, can explain the development of all sociopaths.


Children showing strong psychopathic precursors often appear immune to punishment; nothing seems to modify their undesirable behavior. Consequently parents usually give up, and the behavior worsens

There is also info out there that discusses parental bonding as influences with this type of behavior.

I could go on and on all day about anti-social versus mental illness. Sociopath is not a diagnosis, it is a term we use to clarify and explain behavior that violates the norms of society.

But again....WHAT HAS CAUSED THE SOCIOPATHY? That's the real issue in my mind.

When you figure it out, you can email us from your private island. There is the usual nature v. nurture thing going on. Bad upbringing, or bad seed? Opinion is pretty divided. Among the "nature" afficionados, it's claimed that more are being born, these days.

 

[Brini]

Interesting that you would bring this thought up. yes, on some levels. However, there are some relationships that are overly nurturing. Creating a child that is more coddled and excused when they do act on impulses. In my opinion, as a parent myself. I try to balance the two. There are natural consequences and then there are the moments that you bond with your child out of an experience in which you teach them right from wrong.

I really dont know exactly how Casey was raised and how the family dynamics worked in their home. My opinion was that many things she did was let go and there was no lesson or natural consequence.

But I will say this, I have a large family, I have a couple of siblings who got away with more because of their narcisism, yes they were like that, lie to the end and let someone else catch the blame before owning up to it and normally they got away with it.

But lastly, I just dont see a jury letting Casey get off on insanity based on all the edvidence read thus far. They would want her to have the lesson she has gotten away with for years. its time to burst her bubble.

I don't think a jury will buy insanity, either. She's just TOO good at being a criminal. She functions perfectly as a parasite. Very cagey, very scheming. In very good control.

 

[bessie]

I think you are right and not trying to be a smart butt, but in reference to the bolded part above.....I think it's obvious from Cindy's behavior why Casey didn't bond with her, Cindy is a Narcisstic, tyrannical dictator.

I remember what Rev. G said, "Casey was desperate to get out of that house"..... I think Casey had a very miserable life growing up and due to various issues grew into a sociopath.

One other thought I've been wanting to make, I think Casey is enjoying CA making a fool of herself in the national media....Casey is sitting back saying "see what craziness I've been putting up with all my life!" ...and she's enjoying watching Cindy squirm and fight. Casey may go to jail, but psychologically Cindy is going down with her and that's o.k. with Casey.

I've been trying to hold my tongue for a long time now, but I totally agree. And I agree that she's either an alcoholic or dependent on psych meds, or both. More importantly, as you've pointed out, she's a narcissist and a hypocrite. She's overbearing and a control freak who tried to produce the perfect American family. When Casey was young and exhibited behavior problems, instead of recognizing them and treating them properly, she glossed over them. All the while, Casey was screaming out, "Look at me! I'm NOT your perfect little girl. Love me for the IMPERFECT person that I am. Help me!" Tragically, mom had her perfectly coifed head in the proverbial sand.

 

[Brini]

Given her friends independent lifestyle I would imagine Casey was very anxious to get out from under her parent's watchful and controlling eye.

Most of us (functional people) would get out from under parental control by getting a job and renting or buying a place.

You notice I said "functional," not "normal." They taught us in grad school, "Normal is a setting on a washing machine."

 

[armywife210]

haha, thanks for the (albeit sick) laugh. Gosh darnit, you're right. I forgot about that factor. then they would produce little sociopaths to be raised by either the Petersons or the Anthonys.

enforced sterilization maybe?

I'm not so sure those two don't have some diseases. *shudder*

 

[OneLostGrl]

Aaahh, I found my way home.. the psych ward

Thank you for starting this thread, future criminologist and for finally putting into words what I have been trying to explain for weeks... The differences between mood disorders and personality disorders as they relate to actual mental illness as well as the major differences in symptoms. The way you explained it was muuuch clearer then the way I attempted to. LOL

I also believe that Casey (Cindy too for that matter) has a personality disorder. This chick is sane as sane can be.