Casey's appeal on the 4 charges of lying to police

[ZsaZsa]

No I don't think she was in custody or under arrest when LE questioned her and I don't think that FCA thought she was either. She was playing her game and getting away with it and enjoyed every minute of it, knowing she could lie her way out of any situation. She could have walked out if she wanted and I agree that she was aware that she could.

When they actually did take her in and took that booking photo with her grinning like a cheshire cat in her blue hoodie, that told it all. She was not afraid of LE or their "size" or their "guns." She believed LE was believing all her lies just like her parents always did and like her friends did too!

I too hope that the appeals court will rule against her and she loses her appeal.

I so agree. Had it been some timid person, it's possible they would have assumed they were in big trouble and not free to leave.
Casey was in her element there, finding it amusing to make up lie after lie. She thought she was outwitting them.
She is just like her mother, she thrives on confrontation and trying to outsmart anyone who see through her. No way did she think she was under arrest....
Her attitude once arrested was no different, she was smirking as she saw the cameras.

 

[AZlawyer]

I so agree. Had it been some timid person, it's possible they would have assumed they were in big trouble and not free to leave.
Casey was in her element there, finding it amusing to make up lie after lie. She thought she was outwitting them.
She is just like her mother, she thrives on confrontation and trying to outsmart anyone who see through her. No way did she think she was under arrest....
Her attitude once arrested was no different, she was smirking as she saw the cameras.

I think the legal question would be whether a "reasonable person" would feel free to leave...not whether a delusional narcissist would feel free to leave.

ETA: Let me just say that I, for one, would NOT have felt free to walk past Yuri, open the door to that room, and leave. I would have (correctly) assumed that Yuri would be right behind me with a pair of handcuffs.

 

[believe09]

The thing is, Casey Anthony would have believed she could walk out of that room. IMO. Just like she had the B**LS to go to Universal in the first place. And Sawgrass.

She thought she could convince him of her truth. And that is why she stuck with that insane story to begin with....it must have been eye opening for her to realize he didnt buy any of it at any point.

 

[ZsaZsa]

I think the legal question would be whether a "reasonable person" would feel free to leave...not whether a delusional narcissist would feel free to leave.

ETA: Let me just say that I, for one, would NOT have felt free to walk past Yuri, open the door to that room, and leave. I would have (correctly) assumed that Yuri would be right behind me with a pair of handcuffs.

Now I am confused...
Are the appeals Judges considering what a hypothetical person would assume re her freedom at that point, or what Casey appeared to have thought ?
IIRC she went willingly with Yuri to make the rounds of residences she claimed Zenaida could have been found, and then to Universal..
You have years of legal experience so you would appreciate the undertones of this interview - if I were an innocent person (which Casey claimed to be) I
would feel confident that once questioning was finished I would go on my way, unless LE told me directly I would not .... to my mind if she assumed at that point that she was under arrest it was just another indication of her guilt..

 

[AZlawyer]

Now I am confused...
Are the appeals Judges considering what a hypothetical person would assume re her freedom at that point, or what Casey appeared to have thought ?
IIRC she went willingly with Yuri to make the rounds of residences she claimed Zenaida could have been found, and then to Universal..
You have years of legal experience so you would appreciate the undertones of this interview - if I were an innocent person (which Casey claimed to be) I
would feel confident that once questioning was finished I would go on my way, unless LE told me directly I would not .... to my mind if she assumed at that point that she was under arrest it was just another indication of her guilt..

I'm pretty sure the test is what a reasonable hypothetical person would think, not what the suspect actually thought, although I haven't looked at the case law in this area for a while.

You said you would have felt free to leave "once questioning was finished"--but do you think, after the detectives closed the door and said "you're lying/come clean/where's the body" etc. a reasonable person would have felt free to disregard their questions and just open the door and walk out?

 

[krkrjx]

Orlando should probably just go ahead and schedule the Coronation and hand Casey the Key to the City, and then everyone can move on.

 

[FLmom777]

One thing that should come into play here us the recording of her questioning at Universal. Yuri was very clear that she was there voluntarily and that the door was not locked. She affirmed in the recording that she understood she was there of her own choice and that she knew she could leave.

 

[believe09]

In the case of the pending judgement and suits-even if the convictions were thrown out, cant her written statements, her statement to the 911 operator and her interrogation at the police station be used?

 

[ZsaZsa]

One thing that should come into play here us the recording of her questioning at Universal. Yuri was very clear that she was there voluntarily and that the door was not locked. She affirmed in the recording that she understood she was there of her own choice and that she knew she could leave.

I agree. She sounds confident that this trip/interview is just an annoying intrusion in her day. He tells her "the door is closed only for privacy". How much clearer does he need to be?

 

[chakti]

You know I wonder what the heck ever happened to common sense. Unless a person lives under a rock, which see didn't. She spent hour upon hour on the internet and watching tv, while she was at pretend work.
She knew full well all she had to do was say I am not at ease here. I don't want to talk to you. Take me home.
We all know even if we get arrested we do not have to talk to police without counsel.

 

[coco puff]

Orlando should probably just go ahead and schedule the Coronation and hand Casey the Key to the City, and then everyone can move on.

I know right? Our judicial system is man-made and antiquated. It might be the best in the world but everything is relative. She is a murderer of the worst kind. Big picture here guys. we cant even protect our most vunerable from the very people who should be protecting them. Our system has failed in the worst way. Hide behind the laws if you like but it doesn't change the truth.

 

[AZlawyer]

One thing that should come into play here us the recording of her questioning at Universal. Yuri was very clear that she was there voluntarily and that the door was not locked. She affirmed in the recording that she understood she was there of her own choice and that she knew she could leave.

The recording will definitely be considered. She did go voluntarily (in a police car), and the door was not locked, which are important facts but not the end of the discussion.

They did not tell her she was free to leave, though, and she did not say anything about understanding that she was free to leave.

In the case of the pending judgement and suits-even if the convictions were thrown out, cant her written statements, her statement to the 911 operator and her interrogation at the police station be used?

Do you mean can they be used for the ZG case? I believe the judge in that case has already limited the defamation case to the statements made by Casey in the jail visit.

She wasn't interrogated at the police station, by the way. They read her her Miranda rights, and she stopped talking at that point.

 

[OEJ]

There's no way Casey thought she was under arrest. She knew she could just say she needed to consult with an attorney before saying anything more to police, but she didn't. She voluntarily kept on talking to them.

 

[missm]

Honestly, what person over the age of a child who has a modicum of intelligence *doesn't* know they have a right for an attorney to be present if they are being questioned by police?

I think if you have even watched only ONE tv show, or seen ONE cop movie in your entire life, you would know that fact.

Yuri states it clearly: the door is not locked, it is closed only for privacy reasons, you are here voluntarily and are free to go. She indicates her understanding!

It also made me crazy at the hearing when one of the judges says, "how free was she to go, when she came all the way there in a police car, and was miles from home?" as if our party-hardy little felon had never used a taxi before in her life.

She was always free to go! She chose to stay because she thought if she kept talking, they'd eventually come around and believe all the BS she was spewing, the same as ever. And mark my words, if she wins this appeal, watch her sue the state of Florida for wrongful imprisonment over time served.

This "unusual" felon will not stop with her lies or boldfaced scams until she is 6 feet underground in a pine box.

 

[missm]

A child is murdered, and the world and her legal time should be wringing our collective hands at the human rights of the felon!

It beggars belief!

There really are no words!

 

[AZlawyer]

There's no way Casey thought she was under arrest. She knew she could just say she needed to consult with an attorney before saying anything more to police, but she didn't. She voluntarily kept on talking to them.

Honestly, what person over the age of a child who has a modicum of intelligence *doesn't* know they have a right for an attorney to be present if they are being questioned by police?

I think if you have even watched only ONE tv show, or seen ONE cop movie in your entire life, you would know that fact.

Yuri states it clearly: the door is not locked, it is closed only for privacy reasons, you are here voluntarily and are free to go. She indicates her understanding!

It also made me crazy at the hearing when one of the judges says, "how free was she to go, when she came all the way there in a police car, and was miles from home?" as if our party-hardy little felon had never used a taxi before in her life.

She was always free to go! She chose to stay because she thought if she kept talking, they'd eventually come around and believe all the BS she was spewing, the same as ever. And mark my words, if she wins this appeal, watch her sue the state of Florida for wrongful imprisonment over time served.

This "unusual" felon will not stop with her lies or boldfaced scams until she is 6 feet underground in a pine box.

I understand how you guys feel. But whether or not she KNEW her rights or was speaking to the police voluntarily has nothing to do with it. The police still have to read you your rights even if you already know them, and almost every statement thrown out due to a Miranda violation was given voluntarily.

Also, Yuri did not say she was free to go, and she did not indicate her understanding that she was free to go. And in reality-land (where we live but Casey does not), she was NOT free to go. I promise you, if she had said, "I don't feel like talking about this anymore," and walked out the door, they would have followed her and arrested her, just like they did when they finally decided they weren't going to get a confession out of her.

 

[RANCH]

You know I wonder what the heck ever happened to common sense. Unless a person lives under a rock, which see didn't. She spent hour upon hour on the internet and watching tv, while she was at pretend work.
She knew full well all she had to do was say I am not at ease here. I don't want to talk to you. Take me home.
We all know even if we get arrested we do not have to talk to police without counsel.

Even if someone already knows their rights, it doesn't release LE from their requirement to read them their rights and ask if they understand them. MOO.

 

[RANCH]

I understand how you guys feel. But whether or not she KNEW her rights or was speaking to the police voluntarily has nothing to do with it. The police still have to read you your rights even if you already know them, and almost every statement thrown out due to a Miranda violation was given voluntarily.

Also, Yuri did not say she was free to go, and she did not indicate her understanding that she was free to go. And in reality-land (where we live but Casey does not), she was NOT free to go. I promise you, if she had said, "I don't feel like talking about this anymore," and walked out the door, they would have followed her and arrested her, just like they did when they finally decided they weren't going to get a confession out of her.

So are you saying that LE considered KC a suspect and not a witness and therefor they should have read her the Miranda warning?

 

[AZlawyer]

So are you saying that LE considered KC a suspect and not a witness and therefor they should have read her the Miranda warning?

Yes. IMO once the questioning got under way at Universal (1) she was in custody--i.e., a reasonable person would not have felt free to leave (and in fact there is no way she WAS free to leave), and (2) she was being interrogated as a suspect, not being questioned as a witness.

 

[RANCH]

Yes. IMO once the questioning got under way at Universal (1) she was in custody--i.e., a reasonable person would not have felt free to leave (and in fact there is no way she WAS free to leave), and (2) she was being interrogated as a suspect, not being questioned as a witness.

I agree that LE did believe that KC was a suspect and not merely a witness at that point. That leaves the "in custody" question. Judge Perry believed that she wasn't. But you make some good points showing that she was in custody. Maybe the appeal judges will disagree with him and agree with you. It will be interesting to see how they rule.