Casey's Defense Team. What Now? #2

[comomx3]

Regarding the idea that she made up the story of the Nanny after her fight with Cindy will not fly because wasn't she using this nanny for a year before the fight?

 

[Kat]

I'm not worried about her getting off. But I am curious about what approach the defense will take with this case.

Is LKB conferring with Baez? What is her track record like? I am only familiar with her from the Spector trial. Does she have a certain style or approach to cases?

We also have to think about not everyone is as informed about this case as the WS'ers. What will be allowed for submission into evidence? That evidence is what the jury members will have to weigh.

There are many ways that the defense can go, I am not informed enough about trials and law to speculate much about it.
1.Insanity defense? Maybe, but don't you have to have the defendent's permission to submit this defense to the court? Will KC do that?
2.Diminished capacity? Was she under the influenence of drugs or alchohol? I dont' know, I haven't seen anything that would support that but then again, we haven't seen all of the evidence LE has.
3.Nanny Defense? <sigh> Well if they argued that only one person with the name ZFG within the Orlando area, and that one person was the wrong ZFG...anyone want to help me figure out how that one would work? KC has changed her story so many times on that story it's hard to keep up.
4. The other dude: One of her family members did this to Caylee, and she was to frightened to tell the truth? She could only pin this on GA because he is the last person to see her and Caylee. Will she say she was afraid of GA? That is why there is a strained relationship? Expound if you think she will try this one please?

I have to think harder on this question because it is difficult for me to suspend my emotions and look at this logically and with enough detachment to try to figure out what they will do.

Let KC testify? I don't think they will either.

 

[Wudge]

Oh Wudge, the voice of reason here . Since you are familiar with this type of trial, can you answer this.

We all know what evidence LE has released to date. What type of evidence would LE/SA have to have in addition that would prevail for the SA to get a slam dunk conviction? Evidence that JB/team would have difficulty refuting at best.

Hypothetically speaking mind you.

As I see it, the State needs a confession or physical evidence or a dispositive computer search that links Casey to the cause of Caylee's death. However, the cause of Caylee's and the circumstances of her death and the mechanism of her death are all unknown.

 

[elissabee]

I think Casey's mental illness is going to be a major focus of the defense team. Perhaps it will be an insanity plea, but perhaps not because Casey is very good at acting "normal." I think they'd have a hard time proving she's clinically insane. But the more I learn about Casey and her family, seeing how her parents deal with her, I really believe Casey is bipolar or schizophrenic. These disorders don't often lead to violence, but it does happen.

What I hope is that with a high profile case such as this, maybe people will start talking about mental illness in America, stop sweeping it under the rug and pretending it doesn't exist. These disorders affect millions of people and their families and nobody ever talks about it.

 

[Wudge]

I can't wait to see what ALL they do have.

Don't expect prosecutors to have inculpatory evidence beyond what has already been leaked.

Try this. Cite the last high-profile case in which prosecutors did not leak key inculpatory evidence until the trial.

 

[PaddieAB]

>>>snip

Considering the fact that casey hid this pregnancy for 7 months suggests that she was sort of hoping it would go away. If Caylee was the result of a sexual encounter in which she was not a willing participant or something even worse than that I can see how that would mentally push her to the limit's of her already underdeveloped personality. If the rumors are true that cindy forced casey to keep Caylee than that would be a catalyst for disaster...as we see the end result.
>>snip

How can these rumors be true? By the time Caylee was born, Casey and Jesse were together. He also tells us Casey refused to consider giving the child up for adoption, and by the time Caylee was born he was prepared to play the daddy role (regardless of the DNA test results..why the test because his family wanted it done? - okay:waitasec:..).

So regardless of how CA felt (and is any mother initially overjoyed at the thought of her teenager being pregnant?) Casey and Jesse were ready to play mommy and daddy. No forcing.

That defense ploy is not going to work.

 

[Litany]

Regarding the idea that she made up the story of the Nanny after her fight with Cindy will not fly because wasn't she using this nanny for a year before the fight?

Yes she did use the nanny story for quite some time before. Cindy must have known it was a lie. I can't imagine her not knowing the nanny's phone number that Casey used for so long. But even if it is a lie, they still could have decided to blame it on the nanny. The nanny doesn't exist yet plenty of people will say Casey had one. It's far fetched, I know.

 

[Nosey Parker]

Some hints.....


VELEZ-MITCHELL: Drew?

FINDLING: I`ll tell you when the mistake was made and I was interviewed about this in August. The mistake was made in the hasty nonsense arrest of Casey back in the beginning of the case. This isn`t, unfortunately, the first of these cases and even more unfortunately, it`s not the last. But in cases of this magnitude with missing children, normally you let the patient linger out from. You can constitutionally wiretap bedrooms, phones, cars, everything. You`ve got psychics --

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Why is that a mistake, Drew?

FINDLING: That`s not the way these cases are usually investigated and then you don`t have to worry about psychics. You don`t have to worry about bondsmen coming in from other parts of the country. You let the person if you think they did it, crack and you take more than one shot at an interview.

This was poorly handled from the beginning.

Respectfully, when and if it comes to trial, neither psychics nor bondsmen are going to play a role in either the prosecution or the defence of this murder. I do believe those early arrests were made expecting KC to crack under pressure and own up to what LE thought, at the time, was cover up of an accidental death, and because they considered her a serious flight risk, with the aid of her over protective parents.

Based on the known evidence to date, and if it does ever go to trial, I wouldn't be surprised if it's a "defence" defence - no theories offered, only attacks on the evidence and counteracting of witness testimony, hoping to expose that one necessary "reasonable doubt". I'm not saying this will fly, but I think if they try to come up with a particular explanation, they will dig a hole that they can never climb out of.

 

[anastacia129]

The burden of proof is entirely on the State. Based on the evidence we know of, prosecutors do not have clear and unyielding evidence to support the premeditated murder charge.

No defense is needed.

Has anyone told Jose? I bet that would free up alot of time for him!

 

[Wudge]

Has anyone told Jose? I bet that would free up alot of time for him!

At trial, I would look for Baez to play the role that Robert Shapiro played for OJ.

 

[PaddieAB]

I think Casey's mental illness is going to be a major focus of the defense team. Perhaps it will be an insanity plea, but perhaps not because Casey is very good at acting "normal." I think they'd have a hard time proving she's clinically insane. But the more I learn about Casey and her family, seeing how her parents deal with her, I really believe Casey is bipolar or schizophrenic. These disorders don't often lead to violence, but it does happen.

What I hope is that with a high profile case such as this, maybe people will start talking about mental illness in America, stop sweeping it under the rug and pretending it doesn't exist. These disorders affect millions of people and their families and nobody ever talks about it.

It wasn&#8217;t too long ago that people could be involuntary committed by family members if &#8220;that person wasn&#8217;t right in the head&#8221;. Of course, now that&#8217;s no longer the case, only if that person is suicidal and might hurt themselves - but not others. So what&#8217;s the solution - go back to locking people up who we suspect are &#8220;abnormal&#8221;? There is no solution and never will be IMO.

Diagnosis of what we call mental illness is based on that person voluntarily co-operating (unless a crime has been committed and mental illness is used as a defense). The fact is "mental illness&#8221; is rarely a &#8220;fixed state&#8221;. I don&#8217;t know if you&#8217;ve ever been close to someone who is &#8220;mentally ill&#8221; but they certainly do NOT consistently behave &#8220;abnormally&#8221;. But normal people sometimes act abnormal as well.....

No one ever talks about it? I don&#8217;t agree with that. But society will NEVER agree on what mental illness is, let alone what to do about it. Someone I might consider to be mentally ill thinks they are normal. Who decides what is normal?

So no, I don&#8217;t agree this case will make any difference. But I do think it will hit the hearts of families who may be in similar situations, but NOT in a positive way. Especially in the sense that through the media (the defense) blame grandparents for not &#8220;doing something&#8221; to prevent the death of a granddaughter. Those grandparents out there in similar situations (where their child does not always act &#8220;normal&#8221 already know they are powerless....because they are.

 

[maur33]

How can these rumors be true? By the time Caylee was born, Casey and Jesse were together. He also tells us Casey refused to consider giving the child up for adoption, and by the time Caylee was born he was prepared to play the daddy role (regardless of the DNA test results..why the test because his family wanted it done? - okay:waitasec:..).

So regardless of how CA felt (and is any mother initially overjoyed at the thought of her teenager being pregnant?) Casey and Jesse were ready to play mommy and daddy. No forcing.

That defense ploy is not going to work.

Jesse is telling us his side of the story and how he felt about Caylee, and I believe him I think he truly loved this child. But in the end she wasn't his and lets say 1-2 years down the road he decides that he doesn't want to play house with casey anymore, then that leaves casey being the sole custodian of Caylee.

And we don't know what was going on behind the scenes with cindy, we do know that cindy didn't like jesse and she made that perfectly clear. Cindy had tremendous influence over casey and I don't think it's a stretch (after watching this woman's obvious personality disorders unfold on TV's across America) to think that cindy forced casey to keep Caylee.

 

[Indigo]

Don't expect prosecutors to have inculpatory evidence beyond what has already been leaked.

Try this. Cite the last high-profile case in which prosecutors did not leak key inculpatory evidence until the trial.

Here's a "what if" that I would really appreciate your viewpoint on, Wudge:

According to police sources, Caylee's skull was found covered with cloth, with duct tape still attached to the mouth area. If it can be determined that chloroform is present and the levels cannot be explained by decomposition--and it can also be determined that the tape and cloth were applied and never removed--could this be considered overwhelming evidence of intent? TIA.

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Story?id=6464439&page=1

 

[ROBLYN]

imho,

If LE found a bunch more evidence that connects KC to the crime then no doubt JB will try tossing all the A's under the bus.

If they did't find hard evidence then i'm leaning towards KC being WAY to selfish to take any responsiblity and sticking with the phantom Nanny or she still might choose to toss CA and GA out like she did Caylee. Just so she can get out and run to the movie deals, she definitely looked angry enough on that tape, which was only after 1 month in jail! She must be pizzzzed now with everyone else stealing HER spotlight.

Either way hoping she is behind bars for life in the general population.Justice for Caylee

 

[elissabee]

It wasn’t too long ago that people could be involuntary committed by family members if “that person wasn’t right in the head”. Of course, now that’s no longer the case, only if that person is suicidal and might hurt themselves - but not others. So what’s the solution - go back to locking people up who we suspect are “abnormal”? There is no solution and never will be IMO.

Diagnosis of what we call mental illness is based on that person voluntarily co-operating (unless a crime has been committed and mental illness is used as a defense). The fact is "mental illness” is rarely a “fixed state”. I don’t know if you’ve ever been close to someone who is “mentally ill” but they certainly do NOT consistently behave “abnormally”. But normal people sometimes act abnormal as well.....

No one ever talks about it? I don’t agree with that. But society will NEVER agree on what mental illness is, let alone what to do about it. Someone I might consider to be mentally ill thinks they are normal. Who decides what is normal?

So no, I don’t agree this case will make any difference. But I do think it will hit the hearts of families who may be in similar situations, but NOT in a positive way. Especially in the sense that through the media (the defense) blame grandparents for not “doing something” to prevent the death of a granddaughter. Those grandparents out there in similar situations (where their child does not always act “normal”) already know they are powerless....because they are.

I think you've misinterpreted my statement. I have a mentally ill parent (paranoid schizophrenia). I've lived with it and observed it my whole life. Sometimes everything is perfectly great, and sometimes it's very, very bad. I do know how it is. What I was trying to say was more along the lines of what you said about hitting the hearts of families who live with mental illness. But I hope it will be in a positive way. I hope that perhaps the symptoms of such illnesses may become more understood so that people can get help sooner. So that families can learn to cope better than the As did.

And, in my family, no one ever talked about mental illness. It's too embarrassing or too painful or everyone is in such denial that no one (with the exception of my sister and I) admits it's there. My grandparents wouldn't have known what the term "mental illness" even meant in relation to their child. They didn't take their adult child to a psychiatrist, didn't tell anyone anything. When the illness began to strain my parents' marriage, everyone said, "call a lawyer and get a divorce," not "call a psychiatrist and get into therapy." The only reason my parent got any sort of help is because my sister and I educated ourselves enough to try.

 

[Wudge]

Here's a "what if" that I would really appreciate your viewpoint on, Wudge:

According to police sources, Caylee's skull was found covered with cloth, with duct tape still attached to the mouth area. If it can be determined that chloroform is present and the levels cannot be explained by decomposition--and it can also be determined that the tape and cloth were applied and never removed--could this be considered overwhelming evidence of intent? TIA.

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Story?id=6464439&page=1

I would not call it overwhelming, but the judge would likely allow prosecutors to argue such.

(Was the cloth stuffed in her mouth and was chloroform on the cloth?).

 

[Pattymarie]

As I see it, the State needs a confession or physical evidence or a dispositive computer search that links Casey to the cause of Caylee's death. However, the cause of Caylee's and the circumstances of her death and the mechanism of her death are all unknown.

Did the state have any of above to convict Scott Peterson and give him the death penalty?

 

[Wudge]

Did the state have any of above to convict Scott Peterson and give him the death penalty?

No.

http://www.topix.com/forum/news/scott-peterson/TC7F3IOR6GAA6IQH1

 

[Jubilee]

Here's a "what if" that I would really appreciate your viewpoint on, Wudge:

According to police sources, Caylee's skull was found covered with cloth, with duct tape still attached to the mouth area. If it can be determined that chloroform is present and the levels cannot be explained by decomposition--and it can also be determined that the tape and cloth were applied and never removed--could this be considered overwhelming evidence of intent? TIA.

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Story?id=6464439&page=1

That is the first I have heard about that from a news source, and I don't believe it has been discussed here. Of course, it would not be the first thing I have missed. Very interesting

 

[bogeygal]

My hope is that the "squirrel story" that KC made up is brought up in trial.

Jurors will hear a lot of evidence of a dead body in the trunk, couple that with making up the squirrel stench lie, and it just adds more to the lies upon lies.

I wonder if and how JB will explain that to the jury.