Casey's "Emotional Breakdown" per the docs

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IMO KC was trying to score Xanax or some other pills from Annie and Michelle. I don't believe there was a "cry for help" from KC, just more of her con games. I also believe she probably abused prescription drugs from whatever sources she could obtain them. Heck, she may have even stolen Xanax from Annie.

I don't believe a word KC says.
 
I'm sensing that at age 22, big time clubber, etc. that she may have drifted into using some kind of feel good current drug. The drug use could be on top of any existing mental health issues.

In my day the type of drug was "coke".

Some people took to it like glue. Heck, even a bad hangover can impair good

judgement. If you begin drinking frequently, you're impaired alot. You can

become whacked out pretty fast and say and do things you wouldn't of

otherwise said or done. Usually not as extreem as killing a child - just say'n.
 
IMO KC was trying to score Xanax or some other pills from Annie and Michelle. I don't believe there was a "cry for help" from KC, just more of her con games. I also believe she probably abused prescription drugs from whatever sources she could obtain them. Heck, she may have even stolen Xanax from Annie.

I don't believe a word KC says.


neither did they....odd!:rolleyes::waitasec:
 

Bolded by me


I noticed that also...CA could not even describe her daughter or list one fault when questioned. She made excuses for her behavior, if asked. IMO, CA was not capable of filling out a psych questionnaire concerning Casey. It would force her into facing issues about herself and Casey and she would never go there. She finds life in her fantasy world comfortable. Control and denial are her MO.

Regarding dealing with KC's problems: Once she reached 18, there was nothing the family could do. KC had to be the one decide she wanted help.
This all should have been addressed when she was a child but knowing the family dynamics, they wanted to "handle" this on their own....how sad. :abnormal:

ITA with what you wrote above, and before reading what you wrote here, I was taking it a step further on another thread, here: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3360099#post3360099, pondering whether or not Cindy may have had ontained "other", non-prescription meds in an effort to medicate Casey without taking her to a physician (which weould have required Cindy and the whole lot of them to admit something was wrong with Casey.) :waitasec:
 
ITA with what you wrote above, and before reading what you wrote here, I was taking it a step further on another thread, here: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3360099#post3360099, pondering whether or not Cindy may have had ontained "other", non-prescription meds in an effort to medicate Casey without taking her to a physician (which weould have required Cindy and the whole lot of them to admit something was wrong with Casey.) :waitasec:

i agree that cindy may well have gone to extremes to avoid showing her daughter to be 'defective' ... but there is no treatment, medication or otherwise for sociopathy and even if she weren't a sociopath i still cant think of a med that would have any effect on the deviant behaviours (stealing, lying etc) displayed by casey.
 
i agree that cindy may well have gone to extremes to avoid showing her daughter to be 'defective' ... but there is no treatment, medication or otherwise for sociopathy and even if she weren't a sociopath i still cant think of a med that would have any effect on the deviant behaviours (stealing, lying etc) displayed by casey.
Yep. Do you believe that Cindy would have been able to (a) properly diagnose Casey w/o physchologist's/phychiatrist's help and (b) know enough about pharmaceuticals to know the effects, intended or otherwise, of certain meds? (I don't.)
 
Yep. Do you believe that Cindy would have been able to (a) properly diagnose Casey w/o physchologist's/phychiatrist's help and (b) know enough about pharmaceuticals to know the effects, intended or otherwise, of certain meds? (I don't.)

I don't know her nursing background, but I would assume she could have made a good stab at it - I'm just a medical transcriptionist and my family doctor has called me "Dr." LOL. You can pick up a lot of knowledge. He made fun of me for it but he knew that I knew what I was talking about.
 
i agree that cindy may well have gone to extremes to avoid showing her daughter to be 'defective' ... but there is no treatment, medication or otherwise for sociopathy and even if she weren't a sociopath i still cant think of a med that would have any effect on the deviant behaviours (stealing, lying etc) displayed by casey.

I think Cindy has been quoted in the past calling Casey a 'sociopath.' She and George had sought out councelling which ended with encouraging them to try for custody of Caylee. I don't think Cindy or George were particularly trying to hide who or what Casey was.

Yep. Do you believe that Cindy would have been able to (a) properly diagnose Casey w/o physchologist's/phychiatrist's help and (b) know enough about pharmaceuticals to know the effects, intended or otherwise, of certain meds? (I don't.)

I am sure that they aren't qualified!! The many years difference in medical school and nursing school count for something!! I know RN's are NOT allowed to diagnoise or prescribe meds.But I KNOW RN's who help themselves to the samples the doc. gets-----either for themselves or family members. With or without a prescription. My sis (an RN) has a PDR, and we often call her to draw upon her knowledge of meds and side effects. She knows a great deal and can look up much of what she doesn't know! When her limits are reached, she tells us, "call your doctor!" just like a good RN should.

Since Cindy worked at a hospital, I don't know if she would have access to samples. I don't know if she kept a PDR at home or not. I don't even know if her reputation as a nurse was stellar or cloudy. I do know that in her shoes, if I had a bad, bad girl on my hands, one who had no medical insurance and was perhaps loathe to seek medical care, I MIGHT be tempted to try to "help" her.

IF Cindy had access to samples and IF she tried to "help," I hope she was looking out for side-effects. (I don't think Casey was medicated, though. She just wasn't sleeping more than a couple of minutes at a time in those last weeks, at least according to her phone records. I see her as NEEDING meds.)
 
Apologies if this has already been mentioned (haven't read the entire thread), but I think there was something in one of those emails between Casey's grandma and the grandma's friend. I remember something the friend wrote about (paraphrasing here) there is some condition that runs in George's family and Casey has it too. That might be some reference to one of them acting like they're bipolar... or something like that?
George never killed anyone and IMO he is blameless in this whole thing, but clearly both George and Cindy had their own problems. But they were functioning, well, more or less. Of course everyone has problems; the difference is, this family's are out there for all to see.

I am completely ready to believe that Casey took drugs at some time, but I just don't think she actually had any particular drug habit. One thing that led me to believe she was not into drugs was the fact that somewhere here people were discussing Cindy's meds, and it was mentioned that Cindy had a bottle of painkillers (narcotics) that she'd gotten from a dentist, and the bottle had been around in the medicine cabinet for a while. Well, that's not unusual, because I've had a family member come back after dental work having filled a prescription for Lortab and then only had to take one out of the whole prescription. So the rest of the pills were just left to sit around, till I trashed them. There are some people who, if there were any unused Lortabs in any medicine cabinet in the house, they'd be on them like white on rice. So it seems to me if Casey'd been in the habit of taking anything like that, she'd have long ago stolen that bottle.

When both Annie and Michelle said Casey wanted to have herself put in a mental ward, I could see where that should be taken seriously... BUT in fact Annie did call her later to check on her, and whaddya know, Casey said that everything was "fine" after she talked to her mother. Sound to me like she was overdramatizing. Her mother had probably given her some sort of ultimatum about something and the "breakdown" was gonna be Casey's countermove to the ultimatum, and then the ultimatum went away, so the "breakdown" went away, too.
It's almost like Casey's moods were controlled by her mother... without either her, or her mother, wanting it that way. Just another way in which this college-age woman seems to have had the emotional level of a small child or infant.

Being that Cindy was a nurse there is EVERY possibility that she had more bottles of drugs and maybe Casey DID take one or more of them. Just because she did not take the pills from the dentist is no indication there was no drug abuse. She could have had some other bottle of meds around that worked better for her than the Loritab or whatever it was and what they DID find in the medicine cabinet is no indication of what may have been there and been taken by Casey prior to Caylee's demise. Perhaps the "breakdown" went away because her mother provided her with some kind of meds to calm/relax her and she felt better then...there are many possibilities.

The word I bolded in your post.. "fantasy life". Doesn't it seem to you that Casey's mother lives in a fantasy life as well? Not the exact same fantasy that Casey has made up for herself but Cindy has certainly made up her own alternate reality. (again, I am not trying to "bash", I am offering examples of "like" behaviors between mother and daughter). Though I have no doubt Casey has a personality disorder or 5, a great deal of her issues are learned behaviors and learned coping mechanisms. IMO.

"or 5"...Now we are getting somewhere. It is highly possible that there was more operating within Casey besides sociopathy. There are many "conditions" which CAN go hand in hand. For instance, many sociopaths also have a saddistic trait and a desire to hurt others. Then again, there are folks who are saddistic and are NOT sociopaths. Regardless of what was the issue, ANY psychologist worth a hill of beans will tell their patients that NO therapy is going to work unless the PATIENT wants it to work. The patient MUST co-operate or therapy is just one big waste of time. One can attend therapy sessions for the rest of ones life and if one is lying to the therapist and has no faith in the therapy then NOTHING is going to come of it. The best psychologist is inside of us all in most cases, and it is the INDIVIDUAL who must make the decision to face that there are issues and to deal with those issues. No therapist can do that for you. It MUST come from within one own self...

and in Casey's case...

I doubt she would have ever admitted to a therapist that she was less than the perfect creature that she actually believes herself to be, so therapy would have been "a waste! a HUGE waste!" for this woman.

Thank you everyone for your well wishes.
There is a hearing tommorow to see wether he will remain hospitalized or be able to return home he sounded much better today after being stablized at the hospital.
This two week ordeal has certainly made me look at the glibness of many of my posts concerning the tragedy of this case in a different light.

I pray that whatever has afflicted your son that he will be able to make a full recovery and commend you for your strength and courage in seeking help for him!
 
I would have dismissed this claim of Casey's out of hand not long ago but since I just had my 22 year old son involuntarily commited two days ago Im not so sure.
His prognosis is good but he showed no previous signs of what became a sudden manifestation of a complete delusional manic episode.
Its a nightmare.


God bless you, kline. I've been where you are. My straight A gifted son had a complete breakdown a year or so ago. He is doing well today, and I pray the same for your son.

It is a nightmare. And until we've lived it, we wouldn't believe it could happen, would we? If someone would have told me that my child would be caught wandering the neighborhood at three in the morning, looking for his house because he couldn't find it, I'd have thought they were the nut. If they'd have told me he'd slice his skin and set himself on fire, I would have KNOWN they were making it up! We had no warning.

There are some wonderful people here on Websleuths who have been such an encouragement for me; I know they will encourage you too.

God be with you and yours.
 
I think Cindy has been quoted in the past calling Casey a 'sociopath.' She and George had sought out councelling which ended with encouraging them to try for custody of Caylee. I don't think Cindy or George were particularly trying to hide who or what Casey was.

I am sure that they aren't qualified!! The many years difference in medical school and nursing school count for something!! I know RN's are NOT allowed to diagnoise or prescribe meds.But I KNOW RN's who help themselves to the samples the doc. gets-----either for themselves or family members. With or without a prescription. My sis (an RN) has a PDR, and we often call her to draw upon her knowledge of meds and side effects. She knows a great deal and can look up much of what she doesn't know! When her limits are reached, she tells us, "call your doctor!" just like a good RN should.

Since Cindy worked at a hospital, I don't know if she would have access to samples. I don't know if she kept a PDR at home or not. I don't even know if her reputation as a nurse was stellar or cloudy. I do know that in her shoes, if I had a bad, bad girl on my hands, one who had no medical insurance and was perhaps loathe to seek medical care, I MIGHT be tempted to try to "help" her.

IF Cindy had access to samples and IF she tried to "help," I hope she was looking out for side-effects. (I don't think Casey was medicated, though. She just wasn't sleeping more than a couple of minutes at a time in those last weeks, at least according to her phone records. I see her as NEEDING meds.)

:wave: Hiyah kgeaux. Finally, we agree on a few things. I wasn't saying I thought Casey was medicated in the recent months, but I am commenting for purposes of wondering if these meds that wouldn't have been accompanied by any legal prescription could have been still present at the Anthony home such that Casey would have used them on Caylee...
 
I don't know her nursing background, but I would assume she could have made a good stab at it - I'm just a medical transcriptionist and my family doctor has called me "Dr." LOL. You can pick up a lot of knowledge. He made fun of me for it but he knew that I knew what I was talking about.

I hear you. My mother is a licensed RN, and she definitely knows enough that she could prescribe various meds to folks (she wouldn't of course, but she's knowledgeable enough that she could. ;) ) The point I make is that Cindy, who doesn't strike me to be anywhere near as intelligent as my dear mother, is the type of person who's likely to think that since "she's an RN" she does know enough about it. :eek:
 
:wave: Hiyah kgeaux. Finally, we agree on a few things. I wasn't saying I thought Casey was medicated in the recent months, but I am commenting for purposes of wondering if these meds that wouldn't have been accompanied by any legal prescription could have been still present at the Anthony home such that Casey would have used them on Caylee...

Gotcha! Totally possible. Since LE found the liquid in the gatoraid bottle and a syringe, I'm WAY open to wondering if Caylee were 'medicated.'

:crazy: Isn't it fun to find points of agreement?

BTW, I LOVE your disclaimer!!
 
Gotcha! Totally possible. Since LE found the liquid in the gatoraid bottle and a syringe, I'm WAY open to wondering if Caylee were 'medicated.'

:crazy: Isn't it fun to find points of agreement?

Beauty of WS, I tell ya. :dance:
 
God bless you, kline. I've been where you are. My straight A gifted son had a complete breakdown a year or so ago. He is doing well today, and I pray the same for your son.

It is a nightmare. And until we've lived it, we wouldn't believe it could happen, would we? If someone would have told me that my child would be caught wandering the neighborhood at three in the morning, looking for his house because he couldn't find it, I'd have thought they were the nut. If they'd have told me he'd slice his skin and set himself on fire, I would have KNOWN they were making it up! We had no warning.

There are some wonderful people here on Websleuths who have been such an encouragement for me; I know they will encourage you too.

God be with you and yours.

:hug:
 
i agree that cindy may well have gone to extremes to avoid showing her daughter to be 'defective' ... but there is no treatment, medication or otherwise for sociopathy and even if she weren't a sociopath i still cant think of a med that would have any effect on the deviant behaviours (stealing, lying etc) displayed by casey.

I can. Anti-psychotics (though they are not yet approved for treatment of personality disorders, they are used "off label") are proving to be very helpful in treating many of the impulsive and behavioral traits involved with personality disorders.
 
I can. Anti-psychotics (though they are not yet approved for treatment of personality disorders, they are used "off label") are proving to be very helpful in treating many of the impulsive and behavioral traits involved with personality disorders.

wow i didn't know and i'll happily take your word for it, OLG. i had heard that they'd proved very helpful in some patients w/ aspergers syndrome and some types of chronic anxiety, but the rest is new to me.
 
Yep. Do you believe that Cindy would have been able to (a) properly diagnose Casey w/o physchologist's/phychiatrist's help and (b) know enough about pharmaceuticals to know the effects, intended or otherwise, of certain meds? (I don't.)

She needs to worry about getting herself diagnosed and treated IMO

I wouldn't put it past her to try and "treat" Casey on her own.
 
I read this yesterday and might need a bit more clarification, but didn't both of these ladies say that the day after, Casey just sort of blew it off and seemed fine? Didn't Michelle even think at the time that it was an attention seeking measure on the part of Casey Anthony?

Annie might be one thing, but I found it odd that Casey would approach Michelle with these statements. The two were far from close.
Unless the defense wants to explore these issues, IMO, it's a moot point. Casey certainly knew the difference between right and wrong, so this will never rise to the level of insanity. I'd imagine we all would have to agree that anyone who had the ability to murder, let alone murder their own child, surely can't be what we'd term, "normal." Insanity this is not, however.

And you know this intimate fact how ?
 
Just a note about the medication issue; I'm an RN for 30 years, all hospital work, and over the past few years medication control has increased dramatically. I don't know where Cindy works, but I really doubt she could have gotten enough meds to "treat" Cayce. And I don't think she would have had any knowledge of what to treat her with unless she was experienced in psychiatric nursing. It is a specialty that is it's own world. And the only place I've ever seen unsupervised drug samples are a Dr.'s office.
 

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