Casey's "Emotional Breakdown" per the docs

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this creature accused her own father and brother of indulging in incestuious behaviour towards her ... for attention (nothing more than the aforementioned 'LOOK AT MEEEEE!!!!!!! disorder)

but do we know they didn't abuse her? she definitely fits the mold of someone who's been sexually abused IMO...not to say abuse survivors are usually as nuts as she is, certainly not. but her flitting from man to man, hypersexual behavior, and her capacity for denial, all of that screams abuse survivor to me.
 
I'm thinking Cayce could have gotten away with pleading post-partum depression in light of the testimony that she wanted to go to an institution and get some help after Caylee was born. Post-partum depression has gotten so much press time in the last few years, it would probably have worked. It is my understanding it is possible for it to last a few years, not sure. I think it would have been her only chance at a defense.

yes, untreated, PPD can last years and years and morph into all kinds of horrible things. if i were the defense, i'd try some kind of insanity plea. i think it is plausible. not saying i don't want her to rot in jail forever because i most definitely do, but if i were the defense, this is what i would angle for.
 
if severe post partum goes untreated i think it can turn into something ugly
perhaps pregnancy/child birth triggered something?
but ive mentioned the postpartum thing before....
if it goes untreated, can it just go away on its' own?

it can go away on its own, but it usually doesn't unless you get some kind of treatment (meds and/or therapy). i had PPD and PTSD after the birth of my daughter, and i wasn't even diagnosed till she was a year old, and at that point, it was much much worse than it had been. so it definitely lingers and changes into something worse if not treated.

i don't know for a fact what PPD would do to someone who already suffered from, say, a personality disorder. but it would be interesting to hear a mental health professional's take on that.

also, someone mentioned it looked like she wasn't sleeping. i'm pretty sure lack of sleep (which can be common with PPD!) can turn a mood disorder into a psychotic episode. so if the defense could prove she wasn't sleeping, that could be a defense.

P.S. sorry for all the posts in a row! i don't know how to multi-quote. but i just wanted to come in and say yes, definitely, PPD can last years!!!
 
Post partum doesn't last two almost three years.

Depression is often the beginning of a postpartum mood disorder. Without treatment it is likely to manifest into a more severe condition, the end being postpartum psychosis (think Andrea Yates).

Unfortunately, it can last for years without proper treatment. However, it would be very debilitating and I don't think we would have have seen KC looking so done-up and out partying if that were the case. It's difficult enough just to get yourself out of bed when suffering from any kind of depression. I just don't see KC as one suffering from this particular mental illness. I do yo-yo with it sometimes.
 
Post partum doesn't last two almost three years.

Why not?
if it was bad enough, gone untreated, who knows what happens...
and post partum esp. psychosis is very serious...
imo i think post partum could last a couple of yrs, depending on the degree
someone has post partum, add to that the stress of being a single parent, little sleep....some people take it in stride, some dont handle it well at all
personally i think she had something else along with post partum
 
but do we know they didn't abuse her? she definitely fits the mold of someone who's been sexually abused IMO...not to say abuse survivors are usually as nuts as she is, certainly not. but her flitting from man to man, hypersexual behavior, and her capacity for denial, all of that screams abuse survivor to me.

Screams personality disorder to me... learned behavior.
 
I agree but the hormonal change can turn into something that is life long. Though none of that apply's here.

hormones rule our lives!
hormonal changes can make us crazy sometimes, although not murderous...

what's that dr's name on NG? the blond one....bethany i think?
i like her...she says kc is a sociopath...i think she says something else. dont recall now...

the psych tests given to kc : do we know results? i remember LP saying she bragged about passing them or something....
do those tests mean anything? can she not get diagnosed with something?
 
Why not?
if it was bad enough, gone untreated, who knows what happens...
and post partum esp. psychosis is very serious...
imo i think post partum could last a couple of yrs, depending on the degree
someone has post partum, add to that the stress of being a single parent, little sleep....some people take it in stride, some dont handle it well at all
personally i think she had something else along with post partum

What you say here does happen. It is factual, you are correct! Untreated PPD/PPP is dangerous but it is also obvious. More than 2 people would have seen it and she wouldn't have had to TELL them in order for them to know. Mental illness is a progressive disease, psychosis cannot be hidden, I assure you!
 
hormones rule our lives!
hormonal changes can make us crazy sometimes, although not murderous...

what's that dr's name on NG? the blond one....bethany i think?
i like her...she says kc is a sociopath...i think she says something else. dont recall now...

the psych tests given to kc : do we know results? i remember LP saying she bragged about passing them or something....
do those tests mean anything? can she not get diagnosed with something?

They do, I agree! I got sicker after my son was born- I had always been mentally ill, always but never as severe as after my son was born... and it progressed.. for years!

I doubt they "tested" her for a specific illness while in jail.

ETA- usually when you go to jail they evaluate you to make sure you are #1- sane and #2, safe from yourself. The rest of the psych tests (if anyone even bothers with them) are left for getting ready for trial.
 
What you say here does happen. It is factual, you are correct! Untreated PPD/PPP is dangerous but it is also obvious. More than 2 people would have seen it and she wouldn't have had to TELL them in order for them to know. Mental illness is a progressive disease, psychosis cannot be hidden, I assure you!

true
and cindy would have recognized it ( i hope)
 
Just for the record, I had a girlfriend who has a miscarriage every month. Or so she thought.

LOL- sounds like my mom- that and she claims to have been raped about as often too! :rolleyes:
 
true
and cindy would have recognized it ( i hope)

I don't think Cindy would recognize much to be honest.. she's sicker than her daughter, IMO. (I'm not lynch mobbing her, I'm giving my honest opinion on the womans mental health- just for the record)
 
What you say here does happen. It is factual, you are correct! Untreated PPD/PPP is dangerous but it is also obvious. More than 2 people would have seen it and she wouldn't have had to TELL them in order for them to know. Mental illness is a progressive disease, psychosis cannot be hidden, I assure you!

ITA with all you said above. It would be extremely obvious to anyone who knew her if she were suffering from PPD/PPP. It wouldn't just go away one day and all would be good.

Without treatment there's just no way I believe she could have gone on to live life in a normal matter. Depression makes everything 100x more difficult. You can't shower without needing a 4 hour nap afterward. Everything is a humongous task to the sufferer and I don't believe her family wouldn't have noticed this.
 
Warning...... Long, Rambling Post Ahead !

I didn't read but the OP and a couple posts after because I don't want the other responses to influence my already confused widdow brain. :)

Long ago, in a land far, far away (on another chat), maybe back in Sept. or first part of Oct. I stated there are many many people who 'knew' at a young age they were 'different' (me being just one of many). Many I now know of personally through support groups.
These people 'knew' they were 'different' as young as 5, 6 years of age.
One thing we all had in common....there was one huge event or a series of events (birth, death, tragic, terrifying or crisis) in our lives that brought on even more 'odd' behavior than we had known previously.
It was as if the crisis brought out even more of the bad side of us....almost as if the crisis or tragic event was a trigger.

In that other chat room, without stating my own experiences, I stated that I felt Casey knew long ago she was 'different'. Long, long before she was pregnant with Caylee.

When you have a whole family and close friends who refuse to accept personality disorders or mental illness issues, you tend to sweep it under the rug right along side of them.
Can't ask questions or get opinions....who would you ask?
It's not talked about....because your surrounding family members have the 'shameful' attitude.

IMHO I think Casey 'knew' she was different long ago....long before Caylee was conceived, long before Casey didn't graduate with her class. Maybe her little outbursts, her whining about 'losing it', her mentioning needing to be committed (and we don't know how many other types of 'tantrums' she threw at her family over the years), were her attempts at throwing out there what she knew was not 'normal', and wanting to see the reactions of others.

Would they take her seriously? Would they chuckle and roll their eyes and think she was pulling their leg?

What I'm saying is ...... What if years ago Casey begin 'testing the waters' as far as getting reactions from people about her having a possible mental/personality disorder and depending on the responses, she chose to pursue it or go back to sweeping it under the rug.

Needless to say, when I brought this up in the other chat room, I was laughed at, ridiculed and told I better read up on the case as I didn't know what I was talking about. *Please, if you are going to do that here....please do it behind my back. :)*
Unfortunately, I did know what I was talking about.

I just can't get it out of my head that Casey knew she was different but because of the dynamics in that household, her extended family or even her close friends, she was left with the feeling that it's something she shouldn't be bringing up, shouldn't even question....just live with it.

As you get older, with nobody to tell, nobody to help, everyone feeling it's 'shameful' to have mental illness "Not in OUR Family!", you learn to adapt. You learn how to function as the world expects you to.
But there's that proverbial straw, and the camel's back and whether you are in your early 20's or 45 years of age, sweeping it under the rug becomes more and more difficult and it's almost impossible to 'fit in' or keep hidden the quirks, the strange behavior, the little 'not quite normal' actions and reactions to what should be normal everyday life.

Other than glowing accounts from her own Mom and Dad, we don't know what Casey was like growing up.
We have no idea at what age Casey's actions started to seem peculiar to others.


In no way am I saying Casey is not at fault or that she needs a good lawyer to mount a fantabulous sanity defense.
But if we are going to look at the actions of a young woman who killed her child, I hope we can study the 'How did we get to this point' so that maybe, hopefully, someone else who's out there reading about this sad case would be able to recognize the red flags in their own family and not have to suffer the same fate.
*dons stone-deflecting suit*
 
Warning...... Long, Rambling Post Ahead !

I didn't read but the OP and a couple posts after because I don't want the other responses to influence my already confused widdow brain. :)

Long ago, in a land far, far away (on another chat), maybe back in Sept. or first part of Oct. I stated there are many many people who 'knew' at a young age they were 'different' (me being just one of many). Many I now know of personally through support groups.
These people 'knew' they were 'different' as young as 5, 6 years of age.
One thing we all had in common....there was one huge event or a series of events (all tragic, terrifying or crisis) in our lives that brought on even more 'odd' behavior than we had known previously.
It was as if the crisis brought out even more of the bad side of us....almost as if the crisis or tragic event was a trigger.

In that other chat room, without stating my own experiences, I stated that I felt Casey knew long ago she was 'different'. Long, long before she was pregnant with Caylee.

When you have a whole family and close friends who refuse to accept personality disorders or mental illness issues, you tend to sweep it under the rug right along side of them.
Can't ask questions or get opinions....who would you ask?
It's not talked about....because your surrounding family members have the 'shameful' attitude.

IMHO I think Casey 'knew' she was different long ago....long before Caylee was conceived, long before Casey didn't graduate with her class. Maybe her little outbursts, her whining about 'losing it', her mentioning needing to be committed (and we don't know how many other types of 'tantrums' she threw at her family over the years), were her attempts at throwing out there what she knew was not 'normal', and wanting to see the reactions of others.

Would they take her seriously? Would they chuckle and roll their eyes and think she was pulling their leg?

What I'm saying is ...... What if years ago Casey begin 'testing the waters' as far as getting reactions from people about her having a possible mental/personality disorder and depending on the responses, she chose to pursue it or go back to sweeping it under the rug.

Needless to say, when I brought this up in the other chat room, I was laughed at, ridiculed and told I better read up on the case as I didn't know what I was talking about. *Please, if you are going to do that here....please do it behind my back. :)*
Unfortunately, I did know what I was talking about.

I just can't get it out of my head that Casey knew she was different but because of the dynamics in that household, her extended family or even her close friends, she was left with the feeling that it's something she shouldn't be bringing up, shouldn't even question....just live with it.

As you get older, with nobody to tell, nobody to help, everyone feeling it's 'shameful' to have mental illness "Not in OUR Family!", you learn to adapt. You learn how to function as the world expects you to.
But there's that proverbial straw, and the camel's back and whether you are in your early 20's or 45 years of age, sweeping it under the rug becomes more and more difficult and it's almost impossible to 'fit in' or keep hidden the quirks, the strange behavior, the little 'not quite normal' actions and reactions to what should be normal everyday life.

Other than glowing accounts from her own Mom and Dad, we don't know what Casey was like growing up.
We have no idea at what age Casey's actions started to seem peculiar to others.


In no way am I saying Casey is not at fault or that she needs a good lawyer to mount a fantabulous sanity defense.
But if we are going to look at the actions of a young woman who killed her child, I hope we can study the 'How did we get to this point' so that maybe, hopefully, someone else who's out there reading about this sad case would be able to recognize the red flags in their own family and not have to suffer the same fate.
*dons stone-deflecting suit*


It's been discussed- that this was her "cry for help"..

I'm sorry life has been tough for you! :blowkiss:
 
I tried to give Casey a fair shake on this one that she was frustrated with things in her life, but in this instance, for me, she was seeking out attention, she wanted people to feel sympathy for her, her mom was "a horrible person"...and she, Casey, was the victim.

Both Annie and Michelle asked Casey about how she was doing/feeling, the next day, after making those comments and what does Casey do...she blew off Michelle and tells Annie everything is fine she and Cindy spoke.

No, I don't think this is a true claim of Casey losing it to the point of needing to be institutionalized, to me, that part was for dramatic effect she wanted to be seen as the victim...IMO

I came up with a much simpler explanation: Caylee would have been walking about the time KC thought she was "losing it." Infants and babies are much easier to care for than toddlers; infants sleep a lot; they can be put to bed, sat in "swings," etc., etc., or "corralled" in the modern equivalent of playpens.

Once that baby starts walking, they have to be watched every second. They get into everything and find trouble where none existed. They spend less time asleep, and that whole situation "worsens" with each passing month.

I figured KC had enjoyed holding and cuddling and showing off a little baby whenever she was in the mood, but being a toddler's mother is real, full-time work that can't be avoided. I figured that's what was driving KC crazy.
 
Depression is often the beginning of a postpartum mood disorder. Without treatment it is likely to manifest into a more severe condition, the end being postpartum psychosis (think Andrea Yates).

Unfortunately, it can last for years without proper treatment. However, it would be very debilitating and I don't think we would have have seen KC looking so done-up and out partying if that were the case. It's difficult enough just to get yourself out of bed when suffering from any kind of depression. I just don't see KC as one suffering from this particular mental illness. I do yo-yo with it sometimes.

But don't some people who are depressed manifest it in a manic-type behavior? It's like they're always on the go (texting, partying), so they can escape their thoughts or mood or whatever.

Don't get me wrong; I don't want her to get off- I just can't believe she's going with the Nanny defense!
 
Annie kinda concerns me. Why did she go over Casey's (sleeping over and everything) when she was out on bail? Kinda strange if ya ask me.


I just read the docs yesterday and have not read ahead here, but this point struck me as well. In her interview with LE, Annie said that she and KC, were best friends until Aug.`07, shortly after Caylee's second B-day. She stated that after that time they were "friends in passing". Why, one year later, friend in crisis, you're the one spending the night, etc.?

Also, her myspace page "Annie's living for herself now." and stuff like that. This sounds current, not a year removed, no?
 
I just read the docs yesterday and have not read ahead here, but this point struck me as well. In her interview with LE, Annie said that she and KC, were best friends until Aug.`07, shortly after Caylee's second B-day. She stated that after that time they were "friends in passing". Why, one year later, friend in crisis, you're the one spending the night, etc.?

Also, her myspace page "Annie's living for herself now." and stuff like that. This sounds current, not a year removed, no?

That is puzzling me too. Who initiated this 'grand reunion' and why? How does an estranged friend suddenly become a 'bestest' sleepover buddy again? :waitasec:
 

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