Casey's Pants & the Knife and The Cleaning of the Pontiac

[debs]

I think that CA is slightly OCD anyway and that, upon finding the car and no KC (and figuring out that she'd been lying all along about her whereabouts) that she was in a mad frenzy cleaning out the car and probably swearing the whole time. I can envision her cursing about how her "stupid daughter could let a car get into this condition." I think that, had she not found Amy's resume (and a possible way to get to KC) the car would've been spotless and sanitized long before the A's knew they had a big problem. I know a lot of people think the A's had some idea, but once they heard KC's voice on the phone, I feel like they thought the problem was just more KC drama. It wasn't until she was found with no Caylee that panic actually ensued. The car had been home for hours before KC was picked up.

........Then again, what made her pause in her frenzy of OCD and leave those shoes in the car?

 

[Clock's Tickin]

JMO-but I believe her frenzy was interrupted by the discovery of Amy's resume and the possibility of cornering KC. She stopped and made that call, taking the opportunity to "get to the bottom of this" while she thought she had a shot.

 

[nyvictoria]

JMO-but I believe her frenzy was interrupted by the discovery of Amy's resume and the possibility of cornering KC. She stopped and made that call, taking the opportunity to "get to the bottom of this" while she thought she had a shot.

Good thinking! Too bad she didn't find Amy's number before she had a chance to start destroying evidence.

 

[Friday]

IMO, CA washing those pants was the worst thing that could have happened in the prosecution's case. I also think she knew EXACTLY what she was doing....way more than her claim that they just "smelled" like the car or whatever it was she said. Those pants were THE smoking gun that literally went down the drain.

Re my bold: You're right, and for more than just the reasons we've been discussing. It's now obvioous the defense is most eager to attack the forensics that support the possibility that a dead body was ever in KC's trunk, because--so far--there isn't another shred of actual evidence that links KC to a dead Caylee. Not even soil on her shoes, d@mn it. :banghead:

However, if CA hadn't already washed those decomp-stinking pants of KC's, then they could have been sealed up tightly in an evidence bag all this time. And when the defense tried to persuade the jury that the stink in the car wasn't decomp, the SA could have opened up that evidence bag with the pants in it, passed it around to the jurrors and asked them to take a whiff. I've never smelled human decomp myself, but everyone who has is emphatic that it smells like nothing else and is unforgettable.

Hopefully, the SA has preserved something else from the Pontiac so the jury can have a whiff. Maybe that will help.

I don't know about the rest of you, but half the time I'm convinced the SA has some sort incontrovertable, damning evidence against KC that they haven't released yet. The other half of the time, I worry that they don't having anything more concrete than what we've already seen.

 

[cecybeans]

There is also the real chance that those pants could have had actual decomp dna on them, which would have certainly bolstered the evidence in the car but also have put KC at the scene.

It is getting impossible to believe that an ex-cop and a nurse, (frantic over the whereabouts of their only grandaughter), would even pick up a car that smelled like a crime scene, much less EVER have touched it, if they thought anyone other than KC was involved.

 

[nyvictoria]

There is also the real chance that those pants could have had actual decomp dna on them, which would have certainly bolstered the evidence in the car but also have put KC at the scene.

It is getting impossible to believe that an ex-cop and a nurse, (frantic over the whereabouts of their only grandaughter), would even pick up a car that smelled like a crime scene, much less EVER have touched it, if they thought anyone other than KC was involved.

Add to that, Cindy's words, "What have you done?" They knew.

 

[debbie0604]

I suspect that the canvas laundry bag was used to contain and transport the body (at least into the woods). That laundry bag has handles and also a waterproof liner. With the trash bags inside, it presumably wouldn't leak and would be resistant to tears and punctures. This means it could have been moved without getting fluids on clothing or shoes.

I don't think a washing would remove all of the forensic evidence from pants that were exposed to fluids from a decomposing body. I've read that clothing and fabrics generally need to be destroyed after that kind of exposure.

I think you're right...."Hydrogen sulfide" is the actual "contaminant" on the clothing and in the car.. that produces the smell. I think it's also referred to as "dead man odor." In order to get rid of it, it usually takes a Biochemical or Biohazardous Chemical service to remove it.

 

[Boston]

The fact that Cindy chose to wash the pants instead of throwing them away makes me extremely suspicious.

Why would she bother to wash a cheap pair of pants that were most likely purchased at target and "Reeked of Death"?

Why not just throw them away.......in the garbage ......right out side your house ...?


She couldn't throw them away...!

If she threw them in the trash then LE could have easily retrieved them & extracted any forensic evidence that they may have contained.......DNA, Blood, Tissue, Soil...Who knows....!!

She also didn't have the option of taking the pants to an undisclosed location & disposing of them because for all she knew the Tow Yard Manager may well have seen them or could have taken inventory of the car.

Then she would have had to explain to LE....."What happened to the pants" "Why did you dispose of them"

Washing them, Probably twice, was the perfect solution.


Sure Cindy.....Just play Dumb..!!......"I washed them because they smelled like the car.....ooops!!"

I believe she knew exactly what she was doing..!!

And don't be mistaken...Cindy is very familiar with the term "Forensic Evidence" & she knew the pants could end up being another nail in her daughters coffin,

 

[mitzi]

Re my bold: You're right, and for more than just the reasons we've been discussing. It's now obvioous the defense is most eager to attack the forensics that support the possibility that a dead body was ever in KC's trunk, because--so far--there isn't another shred of actual evidence that links KC to a dead Caylee. Not even soil on her shoes, d@mn it. :banghead:

However, if CA hadn't already washed those decomp-stinking pants of KC's, then they could have been sealed up tightly in an evidence bag all this time. And when the defense tried to persuade the jury that the stink in the car wasn't decomp, the SA could have opened up that evidence bag with the pants in it, passed it around to the jurrors and asked them to take a whiff. I've never smelled human decomp myself, but everyone who has is emphatic that it smells like nothing else and is unforgettable.

Hopefully, the SA has preserved something else from the Pontiac so the jury can have a whiff. Maybe that will help.

I don't know about the rest of you, but half the time I'm convinced the SA has some sort incontrovertable, damning evidence against KC that they haven't released yet. The other half of the time, I worry that they don't having anything more concrete than what we've already seen.

Friday...they still have the car...I would bet that the SA will take the jury on a little "field trip" to smell that trunk.

 

[chefmom]

There is also the real chance that those pants could have had actual decomp dna on them, which would have certainly bolstered the evidence in the car but also have put KC at the scene.

It is getting impossible to believe that an ex-cop and a nurse, (frantic over the whereabouts of their only grandaughter), would even pick up a car that smelled like a crime scene, much less EVER have touched it, if they thought anyone other than KC was involved.

Wow! You know, that's an excellent point! One I haven't even thought about. But, you are so right! I have always wondered why GA didn't call the police from the tow yard, but the fact that they cleaned up the car, washed her pants, and then claimed someone else was involved really doesn't make any sense! If someone else was involved, they have now destroyed any evidence of it. I wonder if they realize that?

 

[JBean]

bumpity bump

 

[Tuffy]

Friday...they still have the car...I would bet that the SA will take the jury on a little "field trip" to smell that trunk.

I hadn't thought about this. Is there any reason the jury would not be allowed to see/smell the evidence car up close and in person?

 

[Searchfortruth]

I hadn't thought about this. Is there any reason the jury would not be allowed to see/smell the evidence car up close and in person?

I can't think of any, it is evidence in this case.

 

[kageykaren]

I think you're right...."Hydrogen sulfide" is the actual "contaminant" on the clothing and in the car.. that produces the smell. I think it's also referred to as "dead man odor." In order to get rid of it, it usually takes a Biochemical or Biohazardous Chemical service to remove it.

debbie you are so right! The chemical products to remove human decomp smell are highly dangerous and are regulated by epa laws. What would a lay person possibly use to neutralize the smell when using a washing machine? Is it possible a trace amount was left on the material of the pants or have they been declared as showing no residue found? If decomp wasn't traceable could a special cleaning fluid for decomp used by CA be detected? Time to pull old threads I guess. With everything at a standstill in the case it makes me realize it's time to go back and refresh my memory.

 

[LisaNY]

debbie you are so right! The chemical products to remove human decomp smell are highly dangerous and are regulated by epa laws. What would a lay person possibly use to neutralize the smell when using a washing machine? Is it possible a trace amount was left on the material of the pants or have they been declared as showing no residue found? If decomp wasn't traceable could a special cleaning fluid for decomp used by CA be detected? Time to pull old threads I guess. With everything at a standstill in the case it makes me realize it's time to go back and refresh my memory.

I wonder what they use in nursing homes to get rid of the "dead man smell" and how accessible those chemical products are to employees.

 

[essies]

I wonder what they use in nursing homes to get rid of the "dead man smell" and how accessible those chemical products are to employees.

The deceased in nursing homes are usually picked up within an hour or two of the time when they expire. Whatever linen the deceased is laying on or most of it goes to the funeral home. In my experience-there is not much problem with "dead man smell". Now the coroners and the funeral homes probably have certain chemicals they use that are probably not so accessable to the public. IMO

 

[kageykaren]

This is so not my expertise Lisa Ny. One of our business partners owned a tannery where they skinned hides of all kinds of creatures. Lime was consistenly used to keep the smell down. Partner even had it spilled through layers of clothing and left his leg burned. Workers stay in the garage before comming into the home, to remove clothes reaking of decomp! I know this as I had to wash these clothes time and time again. This knowledge combined with looking up products to remove human decomp from clothing led me to sites where they sell these these products to Hazemet (don't know what else to call these type of cleaners) workers under strict guidlines. Remembering back to the darks I washed (no bleach) I don't remember a foul smell after normal detergent. That doesn't mean however I removed all of it, I THINK???? Long time ago but I did call'em up as we use deer hides in our business and asked them about human decomp verses Deer, last Sept.. I slayed with my reason for calling and am sure they now confirm I'm kooky.

 

[mom2chloe]

Bumping for anyone who may be interested in the knife...

 

[cecybeans]

Thanks - it struck me as odd that CA admitted the steak knife was not something that would have been easily accessible in the drawer - it was part of a boxed set that was under the regular silverware. That makes me think she was worried about it being in the car. It also makes me wonder why KC would need a serrated knife and would go to the trouble of retrieving it from the kitchen.

I think she deliberately chose to remove and clean items from the car that looked like they could implicate KC in a crime.

It also struck me as odd that she bothered to take a wet wipe and wash the "mama" doll's face at that particular moment. Did it have something on it? Why would someone frantic to find their daughter and her child take the time to wipe off a doll's face???

Just like KC, CA's "half-truths" are pretty revealing. And I keep wanting to tell her "Yes, Cindy is IS a crime to lie, when it's during a police investigation."

 

[TotallyObsessed]

Add to that, Cindy's words, "What have you done?" They knew.

With hindsight and knowing how all of the A's have lied....and knowing from the depos just released the time that actually elapsed from KC arriving home with CA and the police getting there....it seems more and more likely that when KC broke down with LA and cried, and CA screamed "What have you done?" ...oh and let's don't forget that LA stated in an earlier statement that CA pounded her fist on the bed...it seems more and more likely that right then and there a story was concocted by CA and LA and KC. A fairy tale about a nanny. Possibly CA had found ALOT in that car before she picked up CA from Tony's. Perhaps she really has known all along......