Casey's seizure? NEW INFORMATION 2011.09.08

[JBean]

Most real seizures are accompanied by enuresis.

You are right they sure can be, but not necesarily. My epileptic son has never suffered that as a part of his seizures and his are pretty radical.

 

[strawberry]

I just can't help but feel that these "seizures" are in the same category as the blood blister that got morphed (by her) into a cancerous tumor. Nothing but drama and attention seeking behavior. Although I do not doubt for a minute that she could have had a real alcohol induced seizure in the past. I also can't help but wonder if this is the same thing that TonE noticed when she was staying with him.

These documents have a lot of things that have been rumored. I remember some ragmag saying that KC was acting like a hypochondriac and complaining about one ailment after another.

 

[butwhatif?]

I'm still trying to figure out how anyone would know they were having seizures in their sleep. By definition you would not be aware if you were sleeping.
Casey lies so much about things that are beyond her understanding,and she gets tripped up way too often...:innocent:

Not that I believe she is genuinely having seizures, but she said she 'knew' she had them because she had bitten her tongue.

Sleep seizures ARE real and a bitten tongue or lip can be a sign of that.

It could be her desperate need for attention , or it could be part of a defense strategy. ie: 'I must have had a sleep seizure and knocked out caylee 'accidently' in the process, and I can't remember it because I was asleep.'
Remember they said that Caylee always liked to sleep with her mummy?
She also mentions CA saying Lee was a sleep walker. These sleep disorders can be familial.

I hope that the state performs a battery of tests to rule out a seizure disorder so she can't use it as any type of defense.
JMO

Signs of a Noctural Seizure
People may awake from a seizure unaware that they have suffered it. There are physical symptoms that will prove a sleep-related seizure has occurred. Symptoms vary from mild twitches on one side of the face to repetitive stiff and hard body jerks, episodes of screaming and frenzied states and convulsions. Incontinence, muscle ache and evidence of biting the inside of the cheek or tongue can all point to a nocturnal seizure having taken place.

http://www.ehow.com/about_5139883_symptoms-sleep-related-seizures.html

 

[Pensfan]

BBM Just read that too on page 91/13675. The part about "waking up soaking wet from sweat and somewhat disoriented" reminded me of Tony L's description of her having nightmares and waking up sweating in his interview with LE. It also seems to me that Casey may be hypochondriocal (sp?), or at least somewhat obsessed with various illnesses in these letters (just prior to page mentioned above she seems anxious about seeing a doctor.)

Night sweats=withdrawal from opiates/alcohol/benzos like xanax AND it is common when on some types of antidepressants

 

[JBean]

There is all kinds of good information at the beginning of the thread too.

 

[Pensfan]

IIRC...Jesse told the emergency dispatcher / 911 that KC had been drinking heavily the night before.

Partying? Ecstasy also causes seizures and night sweats.

On another post earlier, someone stated KC didn't have a driver's license. Is that true? LHM!

 

[Pensfan]

Not that I believe she is genuinely having seizures, but she said she 'knew' she had them because she had bitten her tongue.

Sleep seizures ARE real and a bitten tongue or lip can be a sign of that.

It could be her desperate need for attention , or it could be part of a defense strategy. ie: 'I must have had a sleep seizure and knocked out caylee 'accidently' in the process, and I can't remember it because I was asleep.'
Remember they said that Caylee always liked to sleep with her mummy?
She also mentions CA saying Lee was a sleep walker. These sleep disorders can be familial.

I hope that the state performs a battery of tests to rule out a seizure disorder so she can't use it as any type of defense.
JMO



http://www.ehow.com/about_5139883_symptoms-sleep-related-seizures.html

Can see it now.....KC has a sleep disorder with seizures which caused her to place duct tape around her child's head, double bag her like garbage, and toss her beside the road after driving her decaying body around in the car for days. Motion to dismiss KC Anthony murder case, Your Honor.
LHM!

 

[Firefly]

Was she prescribed any meds from the doctor that treated her?

 

[Pensfan]

Was she prescribed any meds from the doctor that treated her?

Can't find the answer.

If she presented in the ER in a post-ictal phase with normal neurologic status, the ER doctor would have given her complete assessment/tests if indicated. If everything was within normal limits, she would have only received a referral to a neurologist or her family clinician. ER docs would not have started her on any seizure meds for a singularly occurring, undocumented seizure-like activity. They are practicing to treat emergencies and cannot become the family physician who regularly checks the neuro patient and their meds.

Since she was discharged and not admitted, her physical and neuro exam by the ER doc was within normal limits at her time of exam.

 

[mikeysmommom]

I don't recall the page now in the letters, but she does mention that she bit her tongue and woke up in a sweat in jail a couple of times. And that she gets headaches before. Still, no one has ever mentioned this, except the perp. And given the perp's penchant for fantasy and lies, I find it hard to believe.

Unless there is a witness to corroborate, I am not believing it. Psychopaths are known for issuing statements that helpfully cannot be verified, like, "it happens when I'm sleeping". At most, they provide a vague inference, and we fill in the blanks.

It's also clear from her letters that she reads whatever is presently useful to her. It could be that she hoped to elicit major sympathy from her audience.

Very true who knows what lie he may have caught her in minutes before her seizure lol :dancelus I believe if real they can tell with a test emg which would say abnormal brain activity.:angel:

 

[JBean]

snipped for emphasis
On another post earlier, someone stated KC didn't have a driver's license. Is that true? LHM!

KC did have a license but it is expired by now.

Click here and go to item 2536 to see her actual license
OR
You can perform this search yourself by going to the DMV link and entering her DL number which is revealed in the first doc dump.
http://tinyurl.com/9lyk5g

Driver License Check

As of Jan 17, 2009, at 02:02 PM, driver license number A535XXXXX is VALID. This license is a Class E. Restrictions are (NONE ON RECORD). Endorsements are (NONE ON RECORD). Motorcycle endorsements are (NONE ON RECORD).
Expiration Date is Mar 19, 2009. You may purchase a driver history via mail or electronically.​

 

[butwhatif?]

Does anyone else find it an odd coincidence that Krystal metions her seizure disorder several times during her interview? And how it affects her memory. And leaves her disorientated.

We know that GA knew Krystal from pretty early on in the case. We know that GA and CA were communicating to KC through Baez. We know that the twin had contact with KC in jail. We know there was one instance prior to Caylee's murder when JG witnessed a seizure, or something like it. We know that the def didn't fight the release of the jail letters that repeatedly mention seizures at home and in jail....

:waitasec:

Other defendants with sleep disorders or seizure disorders have been aquitted.......I wouldn't put it past JB and Co to try this kind of defense. They're ABSOLUTELY desperate at this point.

Here's one from africa where a woman was aquitted of murder because she had epilepsy:

Harare — A MUTOKO woman who used an axe to kill a neighbour she accused of having an affair with her boyfriend and then secretly buried the body, has been acquitted of murder after the High Court found she was epileptic and could not be held responsible for her actions.

http://allafrica.com/stories/200910210552.html

Epileptic Man Found Not Guilty of Murder

Epilepsy is not generally considered a mental illness, but Rondeau's defence was a valid one because the seizures he suffers cause him to go into a psychotic state. He had twelve more seizures while in custody at the Rivière des Prairies Detention Centre and the Philippe Pinel Institute, and each time was violent for about thirty minutes afterwards.

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/2714949/epileptic_man_found_not_guilty_of_murder.html

About 40% to 80% of people with TLE also perform repetitive, automatic movements (called automatisms), such as lip smacking and rubbing the hands together.

We've all noticed KC rubbing her hands like crazy at the court appearances.
Is it anxiety, or part of the 'proof' they plan to use that she has a seizure disorder for a defense?
RE: what JG had to say about her 'seizure'.....

GRUND:
I woke up, tried to get up. She was kind of draped (INAUDIBLE) her legs were (INAUDIBLE) to me and her head was on the sofa. So I just picked up her legs, moved them to the side while she rested. As I got up, her eyes popped open. It looked like she was just staring straight. And I said her name a couple times. And then she started foaming at the mouth and shaking uncontrollably. And from my limited first aid experience, it looked like a grand mal seizure to me. So I moved a table out of the way, turned her on her side. Her lips turned slightly blue. She continued seizing for probably about, I don`t know, six to eight seconds. When she got done, she let out this sigh, and then her eyes popped back open again and then closed and she was non-responsive.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You keep saying it`s a seizure, but you don`t know for sure it was a seizure, right?

GRUND: I don`t know for sure if it was grand mal seizure or not. I mean, the things that she did, I don`t know how she would have recreated over again. The lips turning that slight shade of blue, the foaming at the mouth, the way her body was uncontrollably shaking, the non-responsiveness -- I don`t know how she would have been able to fake all of that.

GRUND: They said she didn`t have syphilis. She wasn`t pregnant. And she didn`t have --she didn`t have epilepsy. They said it -- she claimed to me that it may have been because she drank too many Red Bulls.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0905/22/ng.01.html

Can an EEG be Normal Even if the Person Has Epilepsy?

Because an EEG usually records the brain activity occurring between seizures, or interictal activity ("ictal" activity refers to a seizure), a person with epilepsy may have a normal EEG. Just as people with epilepsy behave normally most of the time (when the duration and frequency of seizures is compared to all the time in a given month, for instance), so is the EEG normal much of the time. Also, areas of abnormality may go undetected by the EEG if the abnormality arises deep in the brain (e.g., deep in the temporal lobe), "outside the reach" of the electrodes on the scalp, or if the volume of brain affected is too small to generate abnormal waves of sufficient size to be detected by the electrodes. To increase the chances of finding an abnormality on the EEG, it can be recorded in various circumstances:

•During both wakefulness and sleep (sometimes a sleeping pill can be used)
•After sleep deprivation (lack of sleep can cause epilepsy waves on the EEG)
•With 3 to 5 minutes of deep breathing (hyperventilation)
•With flashing lights (photic stimulation)
•With special electrodes
•For prolonged periods (ambulatory and video EEG)

http://www.nyuepilepsy.org/cec/diagnosing/diagnostic/eeg_overview.html

So basically even if KC had a gazillion tests done and they proved negative for
seizures, the def can still claim she has epilepsy because she displays the symptoms, but the EEG just hasn't been able to pick it up. :banghead:

Also, I can see both KC and her family content with this kind of defense rather than insanity or plain old ' sociopathic baby killer' because it takes the responsibility away from KC.

It just feels like a huge set up to me.
JMO

 

[Just Jayla]

It just feels like a huge set up to me.
JMO

Respectfully snipped-Yes, somethin's hinky. JG believes he really did witness a grand mal seizure, as you can hear on his 911 call. However, in addition to the Anthonys stating that there were no signs of anything wrong, I believe Lt. Unser said that KC was not a frequent guest at the infirmary, leading me to believe there were no seizures during the day.
Now, if KC were to have sleep related seizures (good read here :http://www.epilepsy.com/articles/ar_1063155671), wouldn't RM, TL and any of the guys that she slept with (I mean sleeping, not snogging) have noticed these seizures?
Sorry if this has been written, haven't gotten all the way through this thread.

 

[ZsaZsa]

But isn't she under constant observation? Who other than Casey has witnessed one of these sleep 'seizures'? I'm betting no one..

 

[butwhatif?]

Respectfully snipped-Yes, somethin's hinky. JG believes he really did witness a grand mal seizure, as you can hear on his 911 call. However, in addition to the Anthonys stating that there were no signs of anything wrong, I believe Lt. Unser said that KC was not a frequent guest at the infirmary, leading me to believe there were no seizures during the day.
Now, if KC were to have sleep related seizures (good read here :http://www.epilepsy.com/articles/ar_1063155671), wouldn't RM, TL and any of the guys that she slept with (I mean sleeping, not snogging) have noticed these seizures?
Sorry if this has been written, haven't gotten all the way through this thread.

Well TL said she had what appeared to be nightmares while she was staying with him after Caylee was MIA. It prob was a nightmare, but the defence can claim that this could possibly have been a nocturnal seizure.

And we have to remember that not all seizures are even visible to people around the person having the seizure. Sometimes it very small discreet things during wakefullness, like zoning out, or sensing a smell, halos around lights lip smacking, feeling of impending doom, or euphoria etc.

You can have both nocturnal seizures and day time seizures- and they dont always lead to Grand mal seizures...People notice a grand mal seizure, but not so much with the other varieties.

 

[ZsaZsa]

Well TL said she had what appeared to be nightmares while she was staying with him after Caylee was MIA. It prob was a nightmare, but the defence can claim that this could possibly have been a nocturnal seizure.

And we have to remember that not all seizures are even visible to people around the person having the seizure. Sometimes it very small discreet things during wakefullness, like zoning out, or sensing a smell, halos around lights lip smacking, feeling of impending doom, or euphoria etc.

You can have both nocturnal seizures and day time seizures- and they dont always lead to Grand mal seizures...People notice a grand mal seizure, but not so much with the other varieties.

But if it's a very subtle thing in her sleep ( ha) and she wakes up in her normal state of health, then she can hardly claim that it affects her behavior, which is what it sounds like she is angling for.

 

[JBean]

Seizure disorders are a funny thing. You cannot always capture "abnormal" activity. I can also tell you that seizures can be very unique to each person. My sons seizures are not like anyone else's necessarily and a lot has to do with where they originate.

Don't forget there are many kinds of seizures and they can be extremely subtle.

Not guessing if she does or doesn't, we just don't have enough info.

 

[JBean]

I forgot about the passage with Jesse. The part that makes it seem real to me is the blue lips. My son gets that as his breathing stops for about one minute during his grand mals ot tonic-clonic seizures.

 

[doogiesgirl]

Here is a short list for example..
Source:http://www.hmc.psu.edu/healthinfo/s/seizures.htm

Conditions that can cause seizures include high fever; brain infections, such as AIDS, malaria, meningitis, rabies, tetanus, and viral encephalitis; hypoparathyroidism; high levels of sugar or sodium in the blood; low levels of sugar, calcium, magnesium, or sodium in the blood; kidney or liver failure; phenylketonuria; insufficient oxygen to the brain; damage to brain tissue, such as from a brain tumor, head injury, intracranial hemorrhage, or stroke; and illnesses such as eclampsia, hypertensive encephalopathy, or lupus.

Seizures can also be caused by abuse of alcohol, amphetamines, tranquilizers, or cocaine; a reaction to a prescription drug; or exposure to toxic substances, such as lead or strychnine. Seizures can be triggered by flashing lights, video games, repetitive sounds, lack of sleep, stress, cigarette smoking, or hormonal changes during the menstrual cycle.

Why is KC not seeking medical treatment in jail if she if having seizures? I don't get it. I HATE doctors (b/c I've had to spend too much time in hospital) but I know that there are some things I just have to bite the bullet and go see the doc for. If I were having seizures, I'd be scared **itless! And I'd go to the doctor! I don't get it. Are jail docs more terrible than regular docs or what?
moo

 

[ZsaZsa]

Seizure disorders are a funny thing. You cannot always capture "abnormal" activity. I can also tell you that seizures can be very unique to each person. My sons seizures are not like anyone else's necessarily and a lot has to do with where they originate.

Don't forget there are many kinds of seizures and they can be extremely subtle.

Not guessing if she does or doesn't, we just don't have enough info.

So what it boils down to is that without documented evidence, either by EEG, CT/MRI, or the observation of personnel, that any seizure focus exists, or seizure like activity has been observed, we have to take Casey's word for it?