Catholic Confession
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PharmSleuth
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Ditto to your explanation. Absolution would not be given if the sin is not righted. A mortal sin like this one would have many steps in the penance including that the McCanns go to the cops.
Pinkhammer
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Interesting discussion. The priest cannever repeat what is told to him in the confessional. There are conditions for forgiveness:
1. True repentance for sin.
2. A firm purpose of amendment. (Never to commit the sin again).
3. Perform the penitential acts the priest assigns to you. (A pilgrimage to Fatima?)
1. True repentance for sin.
2. A firm purpose of amendment. (Never to commit the sin again).
3. Perform the penitential acts the priest assigns to you. (A pilgrimage to Fatima?)
Texana
Overreaching
Instead of a pilgrimage, possibly starting a global campaign to help other children who are in terrible situations....Just a thought.
Pinkhammer
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It all depends on the priest. If he's modern and liberal, Kate might have gotten off with something like that.
If he's oldfashioned and traditional, she would have to make a public confession to the authorities and take her punishment.
Do you really believe that, that a modern and liberal priest would tell her to take a pilgrimage to fatima after she confessed to murder?
KOOL LOOK
~~~Sin is the Cause of all Sorrow~~~For this Gal,
Now that we have a little more insight into the catholic confession. If and did Kate or Gerry confess? We don't know. Do we know that they did go to a confession at all? I think that part has been verified, right? They went to church, mass, participated in confession sooooooooo next?
At this point, being a sleuther, and not wanting to rely on the mccanns or anymore wrong media accounts, I would like to know as much as possible about the so called tormented priest. This is a strange occurance in the midst of this case, it doesn't belong in this at all. Got my meters racing.
Wonder what we have on the priest or priests? What if they did get ahold of a priest that believes he couldn't and shouldn't turn them in, and they've confessed or worse, held it over his head with a burdensome task of his position with the church, or some other reasons unknown or unthought of.
Could the priest have offered straight to them a voluntary confession with secrecy? I suppose. I feel a priest shouldn't be exempt from testimony concerning a murderous crime. Thou shalt not kill!.
At this point, being a sleuther, and not wanting to rely on the mccanns or anymore wrong media accounts, I would like to know as much as possible about the so called tormented priest. This is a strange occurance in the midst of this case, it doesn't belong in this at all. Got my meters racing.
Wonder what we have on the priest or priests? What if they did get ahold of a priest that believes he couldn't and shouldn't turn them in, and they've confessed or worse, held it over his head with a burdensome task of his position with the church, or some other reasons unknown or unthought of.
Could the priest have offered straight to them a voluntary confession with secrecy? I suppose. I feel a priest shouldn't be exempt from testimony concerning a murderous crime. Thou shalt not kill!.
Trino
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I see the news article(s) which call the priest tormented, but I don't see anything where he actually says he's tormented.
PharmSleuth
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I don't think a confession has been verified. I thought there were conflicting media reports.
If they did confess, perhaps they only confessed that they had neglected the children. I would think if the priest had absolved them of something bigger, they would have at least said goodbye to him when they fled Portugal.
If they did confess, perhaps they only confessed that they had neglected the children. I would think if the priest had absolved them of something bigger, they would have at least said goodbye to him when they fled Portugal.
Parmenides
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MREG2 - good job you didn't have to phone your pastor to enquire about the "seal of the confessional" - he would have been worried what you were going to tell him
Barnaby
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Why is the priest saying he was deceived & that he will take what the McCanns told him to his grave? This is implying that he knows something!
If they did not confess killing madeleine to him why the heck doesn't he just come out & say that? That would not break any seal of confession as there was no confession made!
If they did not confess killing madeleine to him why the heck doesn't he just come out & say that? That would not break any seal of confession as there was no confession made!
Texana
Overreaching
They were conflicting. One report said they did not have confession with him. Another report said they had not confession at all this summer.
But then, many Catholics do not practice confession regularly now, as previous generations did.
Pinkhammer
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Some Catholics actually LIE to the PRIEST in Confession!
Barnaby
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Why would one bother to go to confession at all if they were going to lie? No need to go at all then.
Tuba
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According to descriptions of the church published today, the church doesn't have a confession box and doesn't hold confession but there was considerable discussion on other news sites about Father Pacheco's vow, that he would never violate, to keep secret & sacrosanct anything ever confessed to him by anyone. I saw no quotes or paraphrased statements from him about either McCann confessing to him. But he did say he was very close to them and their emotional trauma after 3 May. When they were named suspects, I believe he simply accepted newspaper reports on their culpability and the suspicions & status laid down by the PJ. Some news reports do talk about the McCanns attending mass, praying at the church and going to confession. As usual, many direct contradictions.
Texana
Overreaching
We should probably remember that the seal of the confessional does not apply only if the petitioner is sitting in the actual, official "confessional" booth. It is a sacred duty pertaining to role, not physical position.
The McCanns could speak freely (as any of the rest of us could) to a priest, and it would be considered within the sacred confines of each respective role.
This is a key difference between pastors of the Protestant faith and Catholics: Some Protestant ministers/pastors might regard themselves as "off duty" at certain times, such as when they are with their families. Not all of them, certainly, but some would be able to say, I am within my role as husband/father, I am not acting as pastor right now. For example, a Protestant pastor might feel quite free to reject a call to another church, or a direction to move, even if it came from church hierarchy.
Catholic priests, on the other hand, consider their role to be a 24/7 thing. There is no time at which they are not subject to the call of the Church. A directive from "higher up" is a directive from God and accepted as such. Priests do not retire.
My favorite illustration is of this is an anecdote about a particular Jesuit priest in seminary, Father Browne, who happened to be aboard the first leg of the Titanic on her maiden voyage. A wealthy couple traveling had enjoyed the company of Father Browne so much they asked him if he could continue the voyage with them. The priest telegraphed the Vatican for permission, and was given the immediate response to get off the boat and continue with his regular assignement and duties.
As a dutiful priest, Father Browne did so, and went on to serve with heroic distinction as a chaplain in WWI. I'm not sure I wouldn't have said NO WAY! to the telegram, enjoyed the beginning of a luxurious cruise, and gone to an icy and swift death very quickly!
My point is that while some of us would regard earthly justice as an essential thing, it is quite possible that this Portuguese priest feels most at peace leaving that to the will and further actions of God.
As well, even if the McCanns said or did nothing that raised his suspicions, he might also be a very sensitive person who, being very sincerely devoted to the needs and emotions of others, might have found dealing with their situation a very traumatic one.
The McCanns could speak freely (as any of the rest of us could) to a priest, and it would be considered within the sacred confines of each respective role.
This is a key difference between pastors of the Protestant faith and Catholics: Some Protestant ministers/pastors might regard themselves as "off duty" at certain times, such as when they are with their families. Not all of them, certainly, but some would be able to say, I am within my role as husband/father, I am not acting as pastor right now. For example, a Protestant pastor might feel quite free to reject a call to another church, or a direction to move, even if it came from church hierarchy.
Catholic priests, on the other hand, consider their role to be a 24/7 thing. There is no time at which they are not subject to the call of the Church. A directive from "higher up" is a directive from God and accepted as such. Priests do not retire.
My favorite illustration is of this is an anecdote about a particular Jesuit priest in seminary, Father Browne, who happened to be aboard the first leg of the Titanic on her maiden voyage. A wealthy couple traveling had enjoyed the company of Father Browne so much they asked him if he could continue the voyage with them. The priest telegraphed the Vatican for permission, and was given the immediate response to get off the boat and continue with his regular assignement and duties.
As a dutiful priest, Father Browne did so, and went on to serve with heroic distinction as a chaplain in WWI. I'm not sure I wouldn't have said NO WAY! to the telegram, enjoyed the beginning of a luxurious cruise, and gone to an icy and swift death very quickly!
My point is that while some of us would regard earthly justice as an essential thing, it is quite possible that this Portuguese priest feels most at peace leaving that to the will and further actions of God.
As well, even if the McCanns said or did nothing that raised his suspicions, he might also be a very sensitive person who, being very sincerely devoted to the needs and emotions of others, might have found dealing with their situation a very traumatic one.
Barnaby
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Texana, I think that in order to have the Seal of confession i.e. be sure that a priest cannot tell you have to make it clear to him that you are actually confessing. If I met a priest in the street & said "Hey, I killed someone" as ordinary conversation then that would not be under the seal of confession & he could tell on me. I must say to him "Father this is under the seal of confession" KWIM?
englishleigh
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I am a Catholic and I have a dear friend who is a Catholic priest. We met when he was a pastor at my former parish. I used to go ONLY to him as my Confessor. Through him I learned that priests are only human themselves, therefore I find the ritual of confession kind of pointless, as I believe if you truly seek forgiveness you can go directly to the Lord on your knees instead of telling your faults and sins to another person who is only human himself and subject to the same weaknesses and faults.
My friend, however, used to dish out "forgiveness" as well as kind and loving advice on how to handle or what to do about things people had confessed, to answer the question posed by the original poster. I'm certain he still does, though he is now many states away from here. I'm sure that if anyone ever came to him and confessed to having a role in the death of their child and covering up that role, he would be tormented by that, as the Praia da Luz priest is reported to be, or have been. However, he couldn't even go to the police b/c that would be breaking the Seal of the Confessional, which is a very serious thing. So this priest who was in Portugal cannot do a thing with any information Kate may have given him, but by tortured by it. He must even risk prison himself, or go there, before he ever reveals it.
My friend, however, used to dish out "forgiveness" as well as kind and loving advice on how to handle or what to do about things people had confessed, to answer the question posed by the original poster. I'm certain he still does, though he is now many states away from here. I'm sure that if anyone ever came to him and confessed to having a role in the death of their child and covering up that role, he would be tormented by that, as the Praia da Luz priest is reported to be, or have been. However, he couldn't even go to the police b/c that would be breaking the Seal of the Confessional, which is a very serious thing. So this priest who was in Portugal cannot do a thing with any information Kate may have given him, but by tortured by it. He must even risk prison himself, or go there, before he ever reveals it.
Texana
Overreaching
Englishleigh,
That is exactly how I think the priest is feeling. Whether he knows something by sheer intuition or by direct knowledge, he will not go against his convictions, but he will be distressed deeply over what he knows or thinks he knows.
That is exactly how I think the priest is feeling. Whether he knows something by sheer intuition or by direct knowledge, he will not go against his convictions, but he will be distressed deeply over what he knows or thinks he knows.
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