Cause and Manner of Death

[bessie]

Use this thread to list facts and discuss the autopsy findings, toxicology reports when they become available, and any information related to cause and manner of death.

Don't forget to include links when posting factual information. If you're posting an opinion, avoid confusion by using words like, "If", "Perhaps", "Might Have", IMO, JMO, and MOO.

Thanks.

 

[bessie]

An autopsy conducted last week is inconclusive and a toxicology report is now awaited to get a further lead in the case.

"They didn't find any bullet holes, they didn't find any stab wounds to my knowledge. So then you've got to go to the next step," Los Angeles County Coroner's spokesman Ed Winter told Reuters.

He added that the toxicology report will determine if Lam was on any medication at the time of her death. A study of her organs will also determine if she had any medical issues

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/articles/439535/20130226/canadian-woman-elisa-lam-death-cecil-hotel.htm

 

[Fei]

No sure if this is the right place to post it...

Here's a news article from Sing Tao Daily Canada about EL's funeral LINK. The part which I think is somewhat relevant to this thread has been translated below:

另一方面，華特表示，雖然當局完成藍可兒初步驗屍程序，目前不會就具體死因作出回應，也不會透過當局是否在她身上發現死前掙扎的痕跡或瘀青。當局要待毒物報告出爐，才可瞭解藍可兒死於他殺、兇殺或者意外。

On another note, Ed Winter (Coroner's spokesman) says although they have completed the initial autopsy, at this moment they will not respond to any inquiries about the COD. Neither will they reveal whether they've found any signs of struggle before death, or any bruises on her body. They have to wait for the toxicology results to come in, before they could know whether EL died by homicide*, homicide or accident.

(*I think there might be a typo in the original, maybe they meant to say suicide?)

 

[Sillybilly]

"They didn't find any bullet holes, they didn't find any stab wounds to my knowledge ..."

combined with

"Neither will they reveal whether they've found any signs of struggle before death, or any bruises on her body ..."

IMO, there is something ... he's talked to the public specifically re no shooting or stabbing, but everything else becomes off limits. Otherwise he'd be saying to the effect "the physical examination revealed no shooting, no stabbing, and there were absolutely no physical signs of trauma, struggle or bruising, so we will have to see what the toxicology results are".

Reading between the lines ... all it tells me is they are telling us there is something they aren't telling us. Howz dat for doublespeak?

MOO

 

[catatonia]

In this article, it is said

The Los Angeles County Coroner's office said there was no signs of trauma on Eliza Lam's body. Medical examiners must now wait for toxicology tests to determine whether she was under the influence of drugs or alcohol at the time of her death on February 1.

Source: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...rists-autopsy-inconclusive.html#ixzz2MxoXv84R

Since the LAPD didn't release any information regarding her exact time of death, yet the article states a date, I am not sure, whether this is a reliable information or not.

 

[kingsway]

I'm thinking there was some sort of trauma, but they can't tell if it's from being in the tank, or from a murderer.

If the body caused low water pressure, then it must have got stuck against the pipe. Maybe the body got tossed around in the tank or hit the pipe several times, before finally getting stuck.

Perhaps part of her skin broke, and caused the "water to be black".

 

[hello people]

I think she was beat up real bad

 

[catatonia]

That would have left some obvious marks on her body for sure.

 

[tapu]

I think she was beat up real bad

So... what are you saying about the L.A. Coroner's assertion that there was no trauma on her body?

 

[Sillybilly]

Unless anyone else has seen one, the only direct quote i've seen from the coroner's spokesperson is "They didn't find any bullet holes, they didn't find any stab wounds to my knowledge. So then you've got to go to the next step". I have not seen a direct quote that says "there was no sign of trauma to the body" ... so it could be reporter interpretation of one simple sentence.

JMO

 

[OCSlacker]

So... what are you saying about the L.A. Coroner's assertion that there was no trauma on her body?

My understanding is that Ed Winters, LA coroner spokesperson, would not say if there were viable signs of trauma on the body

http://articles.latimes.com/2013/feb/21/local/la-me-0222-hotel-body-20130222

 

[tapu]

Billy, Slacker, thanks. I don't think I could ever have traced back through all the distortions to get at what was really said. I swear that, since starting in on these threads, I thought the official announcement stated that there were no signs of any trauma. Kee-rist....

 

[Sillybilly]

This is the only other direct quote i can find on the net by Ed Winters:

from:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/02/22/us-usa-missingtourist-idUSBRE91I1BY20130222

"You see if in fact there were any heart issues, did she die of hypothermia, did she drown," said Winter. "Were her lungs filled with water?"

So many of the articles are just cookie cutters ... one media outlet writes it up and 400 others do a copy and paste, possibly put a tch of their own spin into it, and leave the impression all over the place that hundreds of newspapers have said it.

Interesting that his answers are questions, some of which he probably already knows the answer to but didn't share with the media. Heh heh ... good spokesperson who can make folks feel they got something, when in fact they got zilch. JMO

 

[Qrious]

Unless anyone else has seen one, the only direct quote i've seen from the coroner's spokesperson is "They didn't find any bullet holes, they didn't find any stab wounds to my knowledge. So then you've got to go to the next step". I have not seen a direct quote that says "there was no sign of trauma to the body" ... so it could be reporter interpretation of one simple sentence.

JMO

There is this video from a Chinese site posted by jennydreadful in the Facts Only thread. Ignoring the Chinese VoiceOver, these are from the mouth of LAPD:

"...the coroner did say that there is no evidence of trauma in the body; there is nothing to indicate that she was injured in anyway, no external injuries of any type."

"We don't believe her body was hidden someplace. We believe that her body was pretty much the whole time in that storage tank."

"My understanding is that the lid was closed when our officers went up there, and they didn't think that someone would climb up or go up onto that lid."

I think these comments pretty much establish the facts of some of the issues raised here.

[ame="http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XNTIwMTcxNjYw.html"]蓝可儿命案·专访洛杉矶è*¦æ–¹æœ‰å…³è´Ÿè´£äººï¼šè*¦æ–¹æ¾„清网络ä¼*言 透露案件进展[新闻早报]—在线æ’*放—优酷网，视频高清在线观看[/ame]

In addition, I found this extended video of the same interview. It contains more information from the 2:05s mark:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRQqdAQ9Ptc&feature=youtube_gdata_player"]USA Elisa Lam Photos - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Conductor71]

I'm thinking there was some sort of trauma, but they can't tell if it's from being in the tank, or from a murderer.

If the body caused low water pressure, then it must have got stuck against the pipe. Maybe the body got tossed around in the tank or hit the pipe several times, before finally getting stuck.

Perhaps part of her skin broke, and caused the "water to be black".

I am thinking maybe the "black water" had to do with decomposition. She was likely near the floating stage where the body "inflates" from hydrogen sulfide and methane then releases it. It is well known that well water that has excess sulfur results in black water (from interaction with pipe metals) and smells. Some of the guests complained of weird smelling water. Though it has that rotten egg smell which is pretty distinctive. Just taking a stab at this....also could have been a mix of that and sediment.

 

[mj12]

I'm going with she was suffocated. That would explain the lack of physical trauma/marks and lack of water in the lungs because she was already dead when she was in the tank.

Possibly she was drugged or had an overdose as a secondary possibility.

 

[Xavier]

I'm going with she was suffocated. That would explain the lack of physical trauma/marks and lack of water in the lungs because she was already dead when she was in the tank.

Possibly she was drugged or had an overdose as a secondary possibility.

IMO I agree, suffocation makes sense to me too

A 700 room hotel, you dont want to risk a loud commotion and get caught

How sad this story is. Poor Elisa, I can imagine it was her first big adventure, getting a fun send off party from her parents, family, friends before heading to the West Coast

Then some gang banger punk decides to kill her...Man I hope they nail this a-hole big time

 

[Montjoy]

Then some gang banger punk decides to kill her...Man I hope they nail this a-hole big time

I doubt a 'gang banger punk' could carry her up a steep ladder with little room to maneuver. I think folks really underestimate how difficult this is to do. Adrenaline doesn't give that sort of strength or balance (someone carrying her would be at risk of falling to the side or backwards), and frankly, it would be riskier than leaving her in some inconspicuous place on the roof. Perhaps a fireman could do it, but not a 'gang banger punk'.

 

[hello people]

So... what are you saying about the L.A. Coroner's assertion that there was no trauma on her body?

Oops please disregard my comment...I was cross-referencing something else

 

[noodled1]

I doubt a 'gang banger punk' could carry her up a steep ladder with little room to maneuver. I think folks really underestimate how difficult this is to do. Adrenaline doesn't give that sort of strength or balance (someone carrying her would be at risk of falling to the side or backwards), and frankly, it would be riskier than leaving her in some inconspicuous place on the roof. Perhaps a fireman could do it, but not a 'gang banger punk'.

I wouldn't pigeon hole people like that. I hope the police don't, nothing would ever get solved