Cause of Death and Time of Death *MERGED* (Warning: Contains Graphic Content!)

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Allusonz said:
The gel liner was found. That is completely different from the prosthesis.

Gel liners are use to compensate for weight gain/loss in the socket of the prosthesis

The prosthesis would consist of the socket, titanium parts, knee joint and foot in my opinion

Hope this helps
Click to expand...


Thanks, I was just about to write a description, when ya beat me!

It's also used to protect from friction and infection.
 
Allusonz said:
The gel liner was found. That is completely different from the prosthesis.

Gel liners are use to compensate for weight gain/loss in the socket of the prosthesis

The prosthesis would consist of the socket, titanium parts, knee joint and foot in my opinion

Hope this helps
Click to expand...

Thank you, it did and I also went back and re-read and it says the comforter and the car cover that concealed the remains were discarded in the dumpster. Not the remains itself.

 
For those interested...

Discussion of the rape allegations can be found here:
[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=121106"]2010.11.30 - Discussion of Documents, re: Rape Allegations, TSY and LJY - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]


Discussion of the human trafficking theory can be found here:
[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=121094"]Was Zahra a victim of Human Trafficking - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]
 
passionflower said:
respecctfully snipped from LINDA7NJ

If she was sexually assaulted, my money is still on her father and EB. I will always believe that she was, by the two of THEM. However, I highly doubt that part will ever come up or be proved.

ITA with this.............
but if they needed a favor or money or drugs..........I'll bet they sold Zahra out for sex also.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't surprise me at all.

The sexual abuse is the likely reason she was "homeschooled"
 
docwho3 said:
As I said once before in another thread, 'developments change things' and so with that in mind
I think it is time to revisit my theory on the cause of death.

IF the stories told in the warrants turn out to true it appears possible that Zahra
may have died from a blow to the head given by one of at least two men that are alleged
to have raped Zahra.

It may possibly have happened along these lines:
Use/abuse of Zahra by the two men was traded for drugs for one or more of the parents use.
But in the course of the rape/abuse Zahra was hit on the head and perhaps injured
badly enough to later die at home.

The parents can't exactly let Zahra be examined by a doctor who would realize rape/abuse
had happened and Zahra might tell what happened if she lived or DNA might point
to the two men who might in turn tell about the deal they made to get to use Zahra
and so they kept her at home and she died.

Again the parents cannot just call 911 and say Zahra died because the body would
tell a story of rape and abuse and the DNA inside Zahra and other evidence likely
would have led to the uncovering of the identity of the two men who raped & hit
Zahra (the men had records-don't know if their DNA would have been on file but possible)
and that in turn would lead to the two men telling of the deal made for them to get
to use/abuse Zahra and that might get Adam and Elisa charged along with the two men.(I haven't read the legal thread yet but I have heard that if someone is killed when you
participate in a felony you can be charged equally even if you did not hit or shoot
the victim yourself.)

Pressured by LE confronting Elisa with the fact that she failed the poly,Elisa
begins to spill the details of the body dismemberment and the disposal locations.
I can only guess that she felt that she was safe enough in releasing that info to LE
since her and Adam 'really didn't kill Zahra' and more importantly with the flesh gone the
DNA evidence that might have led to the two men would be gone as well.
As long as nothing proved Adam or Elisa actually murdered Zahra, Elisa may have felt
the investigation would eventually stall there and go no further.
Or perhaps Elisa felt there would reasonable doubt at trial due to that same lack of evidence.

Still, until we have the word from LE that this is also their theory I have to keep in mind that
Elisa failed the 3 main questions in that poly and that could mean very simply that she killed Zahra
and her and Adam disposed of the body. The two man rape thing may turn out
to not be involved in her death. She may have survived that abuse only to later have been
murdered at home by Elisa in one of her fits of rage.
Click to expand...

BBM
I agree.........
EB/AB knew Zahra had to die!
Zahra could tell her story later to someone!
EB/AB knew Zahra's story would put ALLOT of people behind bars!!!!
FOREVER!!!
 
It seems obvious that EB or AB didn't kill Zahra. Why are they not charged with murder?

EB told her story to her DP lawyer. Ms. Dubs then informed LE where to find the evidence.

EB has not been charged with murder, thus she has told a story that relieves her of the burden of murder.

If the coroner finds evidence that Zahra's cancer returned, EB & AB won't be charged with murder.

On the other hand, if he doesn't...they'll probably fry (do they do that in NC?) or enjoy the lethal cocktail reserved for societies finest felons.
 
Paulette said:
It seems obvious that EB or AB didn't kill Zahra. Why are they not charged with murder?

EB told her story to her DP lawyer. Ms. Dubs then informed LE where to find the evidence.

EB has not been charged with murder, thus she has told a story that relieves her of the burden of murder.

If the coroner finds evidence that Zahra's cancer returned, EB & AB won't be charged with murder.

On the other hand, if he doesn't...they'll probably fry (do they do that in NC?) or enjoy the lethal cocktail reserved for societies finest felons.
Click to expand...

BBM. I'm not so sure EB has told a story that "relieves her" of the burden of murder. No one has been charged yet.
 
Theory on what happened..
abuse, I had previous suspected sexual abuse for the fact they kept her so isolated.
I think she was raped in exchange for drugs, drug money OWED to EB, or just plain sick and horrible acts that she and others were allowed to commit on Zhara.

AB perhaps he was not there when she was raped but I suspect he knew fully well the things that were going on.

For him to dismember the body, he most certainly knew somthing he was trying to cover.

I wonder who the person who came foward is? Even if second or third hand information it seems to be relevant. A mattress outside the home of the alledged rapist.
Zhara bleeding from private parts down her legs.. a little girl with a grown man and a violent rape could cause massive bleeding and rupture to femal organs.
EB seems to have taken her home to lay and suffer and die. That would explain blood in the car also if it was used to transport her back home.

there are so many things that we can assume or think or wonder what happen but the facts that are coming out each day get worse and worse.
I do not want to compare cases due to all child molestation and murders are horrible but as far as one of the most heartbreaking this has got to be one of the most disturbing and horrific ways to end a little girls life.. a survivor who faught to live, kept the smile on her face even living in that hell and then to pay the price with her little life.

If there is a devil on earth he surly has EB and AB in the palms of his hands !
 
I think she was raped in exchange for drugs, drug money OWED to EB, or just plain sick and horrible acts that she and others were allowed to commit on Zhara.
Click to expand...
sherryk- I understand the part about "in exchange for drugs" but I am lost when it comes to the "drug money owed to EB" part, how would rape be a payment TO EB? Or is it just late and I'm reading wrong?

From the moment EB's daughter testified about the $10,000 from a "man in the Uk" I have felt Zahra was used so EB could make money.
But I don't think she was sexually abused by her father, or that he was an active participant in his daughters murder-I'm not so sure about disposal- waiting for one of two things- an arrest or Grand Jury indictment (which if I remember correctly Grand Jury is held the first Monday of the month) that may come next week- or actual evidence that he was involved not just the word of the woman sitting in jail.

This case is so horrible already that I have decided not to jump at every "gory detail" that is rumored to have been done, or told to LE by EB for her own gain. Until it is confirmed by LE I am filing it all away to keep myself somewhat insulated. (Just call me Scarlett "I'll worry about that tomorrow")
 
kalekona said:
sherryk- I understand the part about "in exchange for drugs" but I am lost when it comes to the "drug money owed to EB" part, how would rape be a payment TO EB? Or is it just late and I'm reading wrong?

From the moment EB's daughter testified about the $10,000 from a "man in the Uk" I have felt Zahra was used so EB could make money.
But I don't think she was sexually abused by her father, or that he was an active participant in his daughters murder-I'm not so sure about disposal- waiting for one of two things- an arrest or Grand Jury indictment (which if I remember correctly Grand Jury is held the first Monday of the month) that may come next week- or actual evidence that he was involved not just the word of the woman sitting in jail.

This case is so horrible already that I have decided not to jump at every "gory detail" that is rumored to have been done, or told to LE by EB for her own gain. Until it is confirmed by LE I am filing it all away to keep myself somewhat insulated. (Just call me Scarlett "I'll worry about that tomorrow")
Click to expand...


My mind is a lltte cloudy too, just too much horrible news with these little ones.

The drug money. Previous people in the start of this said they were scared of her and drug money owed.. ( i believe from news and NG) I do not know what kind of drugs but perhaps she owed them money is (( thanks for pointing that out I had it backwards.. again mind mentally exhausted over)

maybe her supplies or drugs came from higher up and she owed "them" money and gave them Zhara for a few hours. To be honest maybe it was done more than once if she owed monies to persons also.


so basically my post should of been ... exchange for drugs and/or money she owed them for supplied drugs that she wasnt able to sell and owed money to them....
 
Beatrice said:
Background Details...

http://www2.journalnow.com/news/2010/oct/31/missing-girl-did-not-want-to-leave-australia-ar-498291/

What does the last sentences mean exactly?

But life in America turned anything but happy for Zahra.

When she asked for a bicycle, her new stepmother exacted a heavy price.
Click to expand...

Punishment was her routine
http://www2.hickoryrecord.com/news/2010/nov/01/10/punishment-was-her-routine-ar-500792/
snip-
Zahra Baker wanted a bicycle.

It was last spring when she lived with her father and stepmother, Adam and Elisa Baker, in Country Manor Estates, a trailer park in Hudson, a community in Caldwell County.

Neighbor Renee Bobbitt liked to watch her grandson and the other children play outside.

Zahra, the 10-year-old girl with the Australian accent, joined right in despite the prosthetic leg she used after her left leg was amputated above the knee due to bone cancer.

“You’d see her on the one good leg, and she’d hop as fast as they could run,” Bobbitt said.

But Elisa Baker, who the neighbors knew as Lisa, didn’t think Zahra had made enough progress on her prosthetic to deserve a bicycle.

“She told her the only way she’d get a bicycle is if she learned to run,” Bobbitt said.

The Bakers’ rented single-wide trailer was on a sloped road that ends in a cul-de-sac.
The cul-de-sac is a place where everybody knows what’s going on. Trailers are close, and people peer outside their curtains if a strange car drives in. People step outside to smoke and talk and watch the kids play.

Neighbors saw Lisa repeatedly making Zahra run up and down that hill. Sometimes it seemed to be for therapy; sometimes it was for punishment.

“I’ve seen her smack her a couple of times and (be) all up in her face because she wasn’t running,” Bobbitt said
 
This is just a theory. No facts nothing to back it up etc. I went over possibilities and plausible causes this morning looking at the warrants. This possibility crossed my mind. EB could be as BB says a drug dealer. In my own opinion she is a drug user too. When they went after BB and TB they were desperate for money, they even demanded more. If EB were to owe someone a great deal of money, they may have threatened ZB. If EB told AB of this. I am sure desperation would become of him. Now lets say money was given. Yet EB still is using. This time, there is no threat. This time it is an exchange for debt. She in her drug induced mind says sure go have at it. In ZB's room. Something goes wrong. Now she covers this up to AB that it is just her "brooding" and "puberty" yet it gets worse and ZB succumbs to injuries to that fact. EB tries to hide it from AB. Now she makes up a story that someone kidnapped ZB. We can't go to the police. They will kill her. Giving her a little more time. AB is dead set on going to the police. They have to get rid of the prosthesis. They throw it in a dumpster. She comes up with the fire and boss thing. (She's mad at the boss because he wouldn't give AB money for the debt.) (After the fact.) No one asked about ZB. So now he is pushing just calling the police. They argue over it. He finally says I'm calling. She says if you're calling you have to say this.......He does. After that he don't know which way is up. He kept thinking they would find ZB alive he can't keep his days straight or his story because he don't know what happened. Just a thought.
 
This is the sickest crime I have ever heard of. The parents and anyone else involved should be put in the general population of a maximum security prison because putting 2 <criminals> out of their misery would hardly do any justice to the suffering this poor child endured. She never new life to be good. She never saw or felt the love of her parents. My mind can't even go to her last days and the massive amounts of blood found in the house. Those parents had everything to do with this and should be punished no differently than how they punished her. It makes me sick that there are loving parents out there that would have taken this beautiful child and given her a good life that she deserved. There are no words that can describe the <people> that did this. I believe karma will have its way with them. Rest in peace you sweet beautiful little girl. May you enjoy eternal love and happiness and never feel pain again. I believe that our dear Lord has a special place for you, next to him, where you will always be protected from the harm that this cruel world dealt you.
 
essies said:
Punishment was her routine
http://www2.hickoryrecord.com/news/2010/nov/01/10/punishment-was-her-routine-ar-500792/
snip-
Zahra Baker wanted a bicycle.

It was last spring when she lived with her father and stepmother, Adam and Elisa Baker, in Country Manor Estates, a trailer park in Hudson, a community in Caldwell County.

Neighbor Renee Bobbitt liked to watch her grandson and the other children play outside.

Zahra, the 10-year-old girl with the Australian accent, joined right in despite the prosthetic leg she used after her left leg was amputated above the knee due to bone cancer.

“You’d see her on the one good leg, and she’d hop as fast as they could run,” Bobbitt said.

But Elisa Baker, who the neighbors knew as Lisa, didn’t think Zahra had made enough progress on her prosthetic to deserve a bicycle.

“She told her the only way she’d get a bicycle is if she learned to run,” Bobbitt said.

The Bakers’ rented single-wide trailer was on a sloped road that ends in a cul-de-sac.
The cul-de-sac is a place where everybody knows what’s going on. Trailers are close, and people peer outside their curtains if a strange car drives in. People step outside to smoke and talk and watch the kids play.

Neighbors saw Lisa repeatedly making Zahra run up and down that hill. Sometimes it seemed to be for therapy; sometimes it was for punishment.

“I’ve seen her smack her a couple of times and (be) all up in her face because she wasn’t running,” Bobbitt said
Click to expand...

This is not therapy for wearing a prosthetic its cruelty. There is no way that an above knee or disartic amputation which is classed as an above knee will ever run or walk like a child with 2 legs; even with physiotherapy my daughter has gone through the gait is quite noticable.

The walk is more like a limp, and the run is like how Terry Fox ran it is like a very fast skip hop. For some reason EB seemed to feel that she should be able to walk run like children with 2 real legs. Impossible!!
 
[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5871497&postcount=104"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - The Evidence Trail Zahra Baker[/ame]

dar107 said:
http://content.news14.com/Zahra Warrants/13.pdf

Date of Search Oct.31/Nov.1 2010

The following items were seized:

33 blood swabs
hair and tissue
tissue scraping from wall
cut section of floor
cut section of wall
cut section of door frame
carpet fibres
3 latex gloves
hearing aid parts
knife w/ sheath
6 cans of paint
notebook w/ writings
assorted receipts
assorted certificates/cards for Zahra
stun gun
5 cell phones
kodak disposable camera
sanyo digital camera w/ memory card
photo CD w/ negatives
photo of Zahra
red towel
8 empty pill bottles
2 bottles w/pills
set of crutches
TV/VCR combo ??




The items seized above paint a horrid horrible disgusting picture. No matter what story/theory you try to weave out of it.
Click to expand...

So it was tissue and not just described as blood on a wall. Imo, her bedroom, the wall that was cut and taken. A huge possible splatter pattern, imho, by seeing what they cut out of that wall.

Tissue.

Maybe a gun, seriously. Possibly a really horrendous beating. Not so much a knife, imho.

Possibly tissue from decomp against the wall, though? The wall section was so large in height, but just speaking of the 'tissue' part, I'd think decomp could be included as causing that... yes?

IMHO, it was a gun or something like a baseball bat, but nothing that could be confused with an accident. Unless it was decomp tissue, but personally I kind of doubt that it was (the section's too big).
 
writer7 said:
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - The Evidence Trail Zahra Baker



So it was tissue and not just described as blood on a wall. Imo, her bedroom, the wall that was cut and taken. A huge possible splatter pattern, imho, by seeing what they cut out of that wall.
Tissue.

Maybe a gun, seriously. Possibly a really horrendous beating. Not so much a knife, imho.

Possibly tissue from decomp against the wall, though? The wall section was so large in height, but just speaking of the 'tissue' part, I'd think decomp could be included as causing that... yes?

IMHO, it was a gun or something like a baseball bat, but nothing that could be confused with an accident. Unless it was decomp tissue, but personally I kind of doubt that it was (the section's too big).
Click to expand...

BBM
I thought so too,but it could also have been from the bathroom wall also. JMO

Since they took the entire section of the wall in the bedroom I thought the scraping probley came from a different place.
 
Clue Hopper said:
This is just a theory. No facts nothing to back it up etc. I went over possibilities and plausible causes this morning looking at the warrants. This possibility crossed my mind. EB could be as BB says a drug dealer. In my own opinion she is a drug user too. When they went after BB and TB they were desperate for money, they even demanded more. If EB were to owe someone a great deal of money, they may have threatened ZB. If EB told AB of this. I am sure desperation would become of him. Now lets say money was given. Yet EB still is using. This time, there is no threat. This time it is an exchange for debt. She in her drug induced mind says sure go have at it. In ZB's room. Something goes wrong. Now she covers this up to AB that it is just her "brooding" and "puberty" yet it gets worse and ZB succumbs to injuries to that fact. EB tries to hide it from AB. Now she makes up a story that someone kidnapped ZB. We can't go to the police. They will kill her. Giving her a little more time. AB is dead set on going to the police. They have to get rid of the prosthesis. They throw it in a dumpster. She comes up with the fire and boss thing. (She's mad at the boss because he wouldn't give AB money for the debt.) (After the fact.) No one asked about ZB. So now he is pushing just calling the police. They argue over it. He finally says I'm calling. She says if you're calling you have to say this.......He does. After that he don't know which way is up. He kept thinking they would find ZB alive he can't keep his days straight or his story because he don't know what happened. Just a thought.
Click to expand...

This sounds pretty plausible --AB seems a practical type while EB does like to take the lead. AB seems a pretty physical type meaning he's more attuned to working outdoors and not as ''imaginative'' as EB. I suspect he was more likely to sleep after a hard day's work whilst EB definitely had more time for scheming.
 
EB's birthdate is June 6,1968=6/6/68,three sixes in a row,kinda creepy huh?
 
Welcome to WS Kathaboo! There are many threads that discuss this but her log in names usually had the 666 reference. You can search EB's internet activity on these threads and there are quite a few comments regarding her "gothfairy fantasy" stuff. There are some people who believe EB may have caused Zahra's death as a sadistic sort of statement for the 666 reference - although to my knowlege it is just speculation.
 
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