Caylee Anthony Drowned In Family Pool Theory

[Just Jayla]

You carried me away right with you! Still haven't found the Lee/Casey convo. Now back to finish perusing Mom4's post and pretend I have not been thinking off-topic one little bit. :angel:

I'm guilty, too-Just found my posts on chloroform, the ladder, and trunk stains all over the forum-Gotta watch what I'm doing and where my brain is straying! :angel:

 

[ynotdivein]

According to GA he saw KC leave the house around 12:50.
1-2 pm the computer usage was 1%
1:00 PM- AL calls

Possible date ask, which led to attempts to find babysitter? And then if no one took the bait (see following contacts) KC was so frustrated she did something bad & took it out on her baby?

1:26 PM- texts JG
1:37 PM- text from JG
1:44 PM- calls AH
@2:00PM-GA leaves for work


From 2:00-3:00PM the computer usage was at 82%

Doing what? Do we know if she was IMing friends here trying to get a babysitter?

2:53 PM- the weather was 89 degrees but mostly cloudy.

2:52 PM- call from JG which he claims he heard Caylee in the background.


* The computer usage from 3-4PM is not listed
3:04 PM- call from GA

He left an hour ago supposedly. What's to call about?

3:23 PM- the weather was 82 degrees overcast.

3:35 PM- calls AL

So GA called at 3:04 what, "just to check in"?, then she called Tony 31 minutes later...

At 3:48 the temperature dropped to 75 degrees and was raining.

By 3:53 it was 73 degrees and a heavy rain.

At 4:03 it was 75 degrees and a light rain.

Now the flurry of phone calls.

So between 3:35 and 4:10 something happened to crank the urgency up, either to find a babysitter or to find help with whatever happened to Caylee. But it was raining. Odds that Caylee chose to take a dip in the pool minimal. Also, if something happened to Caylee in this timeframe it's hard to think that KC would experience it, spend 8 minutes trying unsuccessfully to contact her parents, and then give up and text Tony at 4:18:

4:10 PM- calls GA at work
4:11 PM -calls CA twice
4:13 PM -calls CA twice
4:14 PM- calls GA
4:18 PM- texts AL

4:18 pm - cell tower pings near Chickasaw Trail

4:19 PM- text from AL
4:19 PM- calls AL
4:21 PM- calls JG twice
4:25 PM- calls CA

At this time was she still trying to find a sitter? Getting more desperate about it maybe, since AL had called her FOUR HOURS AGO maybe seeing if they could spend some "alone time" together that night?

Significantly, what and how was Caylee feeling that day? Afternoon rain keeping her from swimming maybe; mommy spending time on the computer instead of paying attention to her... anyone who has been around 2+ year olds knows the kinds of fits they can pitch. A self-absorbed mother without her own parental reinforcements present (why did you call an hour after leaving again, GA?) might do almost anything to quiet her down, especially if said mother had hot plans for the evening...

I do believe that whatever ended Caylee's life happened that day. I think that Caylee was in the trunk by that night, probably wrapped in the blanket only, no bags. Mom4life, your meteorology is convincing me even more that this was no accidental drowning... (As if the duct tape didn't speak for itself, but that could have been a post-mortem ploy as other posters have posited.)

As my good friend Clover might say: MOO MOO MOO

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Everyone has such good points/counter points.

My problem is that I don't trust/believe GA any more than I trust/believe KC.
The fact that he called at 3:04PM after he had just left home to go to work an hour earlier and claims that KC left with Caylee two hours prior, makes no sense. Who was he calling and why?

Does LE examine these little weirdnesses, compare them to other typical days and demand reasonable explanations for them? It makes no sense that GA would contact an empty house or even call KC on her cell upon immediate arrival to his workplace. :waitasec:

 

[Aedrys]

Everyone has such good points/counter points.

My problem is that I don't trust/believe GA any more than I trust/believe KC.
The fact that he called at 3:04PM after he had just left home to go to work an hour earlier and claims that KC left with Caylee two hours prior, makes no sense. Who was he calling and why?

Does LE examine these little weirdnesses, compare them to other typical days and demand reasonable explanations for them? It makes no sense that GA would contact an empty house or even call KC on her cell upon immediate arrival to his workplace. :waitasec:

Probably because he's been lying with almost every word that comes out of his mouth. He most definitely lied about the last time he saw Caylee (In his microscope note, he identifies the 15th, not the 16th, being an important day. Wouldn't the last day you saw your granddaughter be an important day? So probably the last time he saw her was the 15th). He was probably calling to see if Casey was at the house, and was probably bothered him because he didn't see Caylee that morning. He may have been calling to talk to Caylee or see if she was okay. Probably knowing that Casey wasn't working and returned to the house everyday, he figured he could call her there and she would answer. Remember, he knew what Casey really did everyday, he just wouldn't do anything because Cindy said not to. Or more likely, Cindy always took care of Casey's problems, so George got lazy and just let Cindy worry about it...except at this point, he was probably actually worried that something might have actually happened to Caylee.

You really can't trust anything this entire family says. And I don't believe for a second a drowning was involved. That's way too easy to milk for all the attention in the world. No, she panicked because of the duct tape and knew that couldn't easily be explained by an accident. What is she going to say, that she accidently put duct tape on Caylee? Yeah, she accidently fell on Caylee while holding duct tape in her hands three times...even Casey was smart enough to know that wasn't going to fly with her family...

 

[spyhouston]

Why did GA call KC that afternoon??? He certainly didn't need to know her plans because she had already told him that they were going to stay at Zanny's that night and she had already told CA the plans IIRC. Why did KC need to pick up Caylee at 5 PM 'like a normal day' if Caylee was going to stay the night??? Lots of lying going, like we didn't already know that!!!

 

[CA Mom]

Why did GA call KC that afternoon??? He certainly didn't need to know her plans because she had already told him that they were going to stay at Zanny's that night and she had already told CA the plans IIRC. Why did KC need to pick up Caylee at 5 PM 'like a normal day' if Caylee was going to stay the night??? Lots of lying going, like we didn't already know that!!!

Without looking at phone records, I seem to remember that GA RARELY called KC by phone. I'm also wondering "why the call from GA?"

 

[DaughterAlice]

I have a crazy thought, and I don't have time to read all the previous posts, so I'll feel foolish if this has already been discussed.

What if moving the ladder was sort of a knee-jerk reaction by CA or GA after the realization of what may have really happened to Caylee? They didn't know the circumstances at the time, nothing about where her body was, or the duct tape, or the 31 days of party, or the tattoo, but they maybe DID suspect something, so . . . . why not give KC a possible alibi? I'm not saying it was well thought out or anything - but maybe it was something along the lines of "set the scene & we'll think of a story to fill it in later."

Yeah, I know . . . crazy, right?:crazy:

 

[wenwe4]

What bothers me is if the fight the night before was so "violent" that CA tried to choke kc, why the flurry of calls to her Mom that afternoon? The same person she was so angry with, kc making calls to her "perpetrator" and asking for help? KC also didn't see CA in the morning before she left for work, so this is the first verbal contact since the choking incident? Since KC told GA she and Caylee were going to spend the nite @ Zanny's, what would be the need to have a babysitter w/the gparents?

 

[Just Jayla]

Probably because he's been lying with almost every word that comes out of his mouth. He most definitely lied about the last time he saw Caylee (In his microscope note, he identifies the 15th, not the 16th, being an important day. Wouldn't the last day you saw your granddaughter be an important day? So probably the last time he saw her was the 15th). He was probably calling to see if Casey was at the house, and was probably bothered him because he didn't see Caylee that morning. He may have been calling to talk to Caylee or see if she was okay. Probably knowing that Casey wasn't working and returned to the house everyday, he figured he could call her there and she would answer. Remember, he knew what Casey really did everyday, he just wouldn't do anything because Cindy said not to. Or more likely, Cindy always took care of Casey's problems, so George got lazy and just let Cindy worry about it...except at this point, he was probably actually worried that something might have actually happened to Caylee.

You really can't trust anything this entire family says. And I don't believe for a second a drowning was involved. That's way too easy to milk for all the attention in the world. No, she panicked because of the duct tape and knew that couldn't easily be explained by an accident. What is she going to say, that she accidently put duct tape on Caylee? Yeah, she accidently fell on Caylee while holding duct tape in her hands three times...even Casey was smart enough to know that wasn't going to fly with her family...

I do agree that they are not to be trusted, and I also agree with the direction you are going as far as George-seemed like it was becoming a frequent thing that GA was challenging KC on her behavior. Going to Sports Authoirty was not about a robbery-He knew she did not work there and wanted to bust her-He knew the deposit slip was fake...He was calling her, which is atypical for a guy that is working unless he had a reason to call-and he was right on her butt about the gas cans. Furthermore, he definately pegged her for hurting Caylee, he stated his hesitation to believe this to LE, but not upon their prompt, upon his own inner conflict.
Maybe he was feeling his oats, FINALLY, and was gathering his evidence before he laid it out for CA once and for all. KC was of the age where GA had a reasonable expectation for her to be (at least looking to be) gone out of their house and on their own. It was time for George to enjoy his wife alone, they had raised their kids.
Futile exercises for GA anyway, seems he just decided to go along with CA instead of making his presentation against KC, because that would have made him look like a real jerk to dump on KC while she was being "dumped on" by LE and the media.
So to bring it back around to the topic at hand, I have to wonder what went through GA's head about the ladder-Did he believe CA when she called and asked about it? Did he think to himself that maybe KC placed it there as a cover up? Did GA come up with the ladder story himself? He clearly knew something was hinky about it, according to Tracey's account of his body language when KC brought the ladder up in conversation.

 

[nyvictoria]

I have a crazy thought, and I don't have time to read all the previous posts, so I'll feel foolish if this has already been discussed.

What if moving the ladder was sort of a knee-jerk reaction by CA or GA after the realization of what may have really happened to Caylee? They didn't know the circumstances at the time, nothing about where her body was, or the duct tape, or the 31 days of party, or the tattoo, but they maybe DID suspect something, so . . . . why not give KC a possible alibi? I'm not saying it was well thought out or anything - but maybe it was something along the lines of "set the scene & we'll think of a story to fill it in later."

Yeah, I know . . . crazy, right?:crazy:

The only "crazy" thoughts in this case are those spouted by the Anthony camp :crazy: As far as they go, nothing at all would surprise me. IF, and that's a big if, the ladder was moved, I'd be willing to side with your theory that it may have been a staged scene and probably one of many they considered. It calls to mind Cindy urging Casey (wink wink) to say she borrowed the shovel to cut the bamboo. Nothing was off limits. I'm convinced they pretty much immediately knew Casey was responsible but they were willing to sell their souls to the devil anyway and did so at every turn!

 

[Jolynna]

I keep going over this accidental drowning theory to see if it is even remotely possible. One obvious fact to me to consider was what was the weather like that Monday.

Using the link provided in our monthly time line the morning was 86 degrees, calm and clear until 1:53pm.

According to GA he saw KC leave the house around 12:50.
1-2 pm the computer usage was 1%
1:00 PM- AL calls
1:26 PM- texts JG
1:37 PM- text from JG
1:44 PM- calls AH
@2:00PM-GA leaves for work


From 2:00-3:00PM the computer usage was at 82%

2:53 PM- the weather was 89 degrees but mostly cloudy.

2:52 PM- call from JG which he claims he heard Caylee in the background.


* The computer usage from 3-4PM is not listed
3:04 PM- call from GA

3:23 PM- the weather was 82 degrees overcast.

3:35 PM- calls AL

At 3:48 the temperature dropped to 75 degrees and was raining.

By 3:53 it was 73 degrees and a heavy rain.


At 4:03 it was 75 degrees and a light rain.

Now the flurry of phone calls.

4:10 PM- calls GA at work
4:11 PM -calls CA twice
4:13 PM -calls CA twice
4:14 PM- calls GA
4:18 PM- texts AL

4:18 pm - cell tower pings near Chickasaw Trail

4:19 PM- text from AL
4:19 PM- calls AL
4:21 PM- calls JG twice
4:25 PM- calls CA

At 5:53 the weather is 75 degrees and clear.

The weather was warm enough and nice enough to go in the pool in the morning but then very quickly turned to heavy rain by afternoon. Narrowing down a time line, the computer was in high use from 2-3pm and KC assumptively had little interacton with Caylee. Now if JG was correct in hearing Caylee in the background we can move the time line to 3-4pm. At 3:23 it was overcast and by 3:48 it was raining. She placed a call to AL at 3:35pm. It would be between 3pm and 3:35pm for a possible quick swim. It would be interesting to see what the computer usage is for this time frame but none is listed.

The accident could be possible but IMO, I don't believe it when you add in the duct tape and chloroform. I came up with a possible scenario to explain what could have happened in that time frame. KC tells Caylee she can go for a swim. Seeing that it will rain soon makes it easy for her to get Caylee out of the pool quickly. The chloroform could be on a towel/blanket used for Caylee when she gets out of the pool making her unconsious. She could also be going thru the motions of changing her from her bathing suit making everything appear normal. KC could then apply the duct tape to her leaving her near the pool which could explain the cadaver dog hit. Leaving her wrapped up she then moves her to another place in the yard to hide her like in the playhouse which was another area the cadaver dog hit on. By this time it could be starting to sprinkle and she was rushing to get inside forgetting about the ladder by the pool. She would then return the next day to retrieve her to move her to the car. My personal opinion is this was done with intent, spite and selfishness. Whatever did happen, there is no reasonable or acceptable explanation for why it happened.

BBM

If Caylee had been out for any length of time, blow flies would have found the fresh corpse and laid eggs. The eggs would have hatched after Caylee went into the trunk. Which didn't happen.

Only "coffin flies" which can wriggle into tight sealed containers (like a car trunk) were found in the trunk. There were only "coffin fly" eggs, maggots, cocoons. If Caylee had been out anywhere not tightly sealed overnight, there would have been signs in the trunk of blow fly colonization too.

 

[Aedrys]

I have a crazy thought, and I don't have time to read all the previous posts, so I'll feel foolish if this has already been discussed.

What if moving the ladder was sort of a knee-jerk reaction by CA or GA after the realization of what may have really happened to Caylee? They didn't know the circumstances at the time, nothing about where her body was, or the duct tape, or the 31 days of party, or the tattoo, but they maybe DID suspect something, so . . . . why not give KC a possible alibi? I'm not saying it was well thought out or anything - but maybe it was something along the lines of "set the scene & we'll think of a story to fill it in later."

Yeah, I know . . . crazy, right?:crazy:

That's not crazy at all. In fact, I'm betting the unfortunate accident route was the first thing to pop into Cindy's mind - you know, we can spin this and get lots of sympathy and attention, and deflect it away from a cold blooded killing. The pool was most likely the easiest avenue for that, so I think Cindy moved it or got George to move it and they were going to go with a pool accident until Casey scoffed that idea. Then they couldn't use that idea
anymore and just left the ladder where they moved it to.

I wouldn't put anything past these people. When people's reaction to a murder is how can we use this to our advantage, there is something seriously wrong with those people. It wasn't let's find her and bring her home, it was how can we exploit this situation and make money off of it. They are truly sick, disgusting people, and had Casey gone along with it, they would have claimed an unforunate pool accident happened. Not that that would have worked, especially after the remains were found, but they would have tried it. If they still read here, it probably amuses them that a pool accident is still being debated.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Probably because he's been lying with almost every word that comes out of his mouth. He most definitely lied about the last time he saw Caylee (In his microscope note, he identifies the 15th, not the 16th, being an important day. Wouldn't the last day you saw your granddaughter be an important day? So probably the last time he saw her was the 15th). He was probably calling to see if Casey was at the house, and was probably bothered him because he didn't see Caylee that morning. He may have been calling to talk to Caylee or see if she was okay. Probably knowing that Casey wasn't working and returned to the house everyday, he figured he could call her there and she would answer. Remember, he knew what Casey really did everyday, he just wouldn't do anything because Cindy said not to. Or more likely, Cindy always took care of Casey's problems, so George got lazy and just let Cindy worry about it...except at this point, he was probably actually worried that something might have actually happened to Caylee...

snipped bm and BBM.

Yes, and Casey learned everything she knows from her old man, GA.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

I have a crazy thought, and I don't have time to read all the previous posts, so I'll feel foolish if this has already been discussed.

What if moving the ladder was sort of a knee-jerk reaction by CA or GA after the realization of what may have really happened to Caylee? They didn't know the circumstances at the time, nothing about where her body was, or the duct tape, or the 31 days of party, or the tattoo, but they maybe DID suspect something, so . . . . why not give KC a possible alibi? I'm not saying it was well thought out or anything - but maybe it was something along the lines of "set the scene & we'll think of a story to fill it in later."

Yeah, I know . . . crazy, right?:crazy:

Except, between ladder moving and gas can stealing, there was a lot of digging and bush/storage box moving going on, brick laying, pool filter changing and waiting around for two people to come home who have always lived there, text messages, bs phone calls and supposed tactical diversions, high speed car chases that cannot be substantiated, bs bamboo digging episodes as well as various other clues to mysterious backyard activities like trained sniffer dog hits on sand boxes and poolside areas as well as car trunk. Let us not forget lime spreading.

True, none of the above may have anything to do with the pool.

My favorite is the sudden urge KC had to clear the yard of bamboo shoots so the child she knew would never be returning to play there again wouldn't end up tripping on the bamboo - is that some kind of a clue? So weird. KC is out and about, decides to drive home, borrows a shovel from the neighbor after she backs her car into the driveway, why? Because, as per CA, Casey needed to remove bamboo from the patio cracks. Did I hear someone say cracK?

Let us not forget that KC proclaimed in front of Tracy that she used the borrowed shovel to get the ladder out of the pool. Ummmm. Could this have been the day that CA noticed the ladder near the pool and the gate left open? Why would KC make that statement in front of her parents and Tracy too? It's either a dig to her parents or the truth, one or the other. It could be a bald faced lie too but why lie about that and not just stick to the bamboo shoot story?

Causes one to wonder :waitasec:.

 

[steadychick]

What bothers me is if the fight the night before was so "violent" that CA tried to choke kc, why the flurry of calls to her Mom that afternoon? The same person she was so angry with, kc making calls to her "perpetrator" and asking for help? KC also didn't see CA in the morning before she left for work, so this is the first verbal contact since the choking incident? Since KC told GA she and Caylee were going to spend the nite @ Zanny's, what would be the need to have a babysitter w/the gparents?

First, fight or no fight, I think if KC needed a sitter, she would call anyone and everyone no matter what their relationship at the moment. Most telling, IMO, is that Cindy did not answer or call KC back. Cindy was angry and probably refused to return the calls. In addition, if as some speculate, KC then went to Gentiva to try to drop Caylee off before proceeding to Tony's (I believe cell pings support this possibility), Cindy may have assumed KC was on her way and made sure she was gone when KC arrived.

Second, I think you hit on an important "mistruth" in GA's statements. We're all pretty convinced that GA knew she wasn't working, so whatever story she she told him (if she did) about going to work is a lie and George knew it. IF she told him that she and Caylee were spending the night with a friend, it may be that she was planning on taking Caylee with her to Tony's, but ran into opposition that afternoon from Tony about doing that and had to quickly change her plans and find find someone to take Caylee. Sure would like to know what her conversations with Tony that day were about. For that matter, have we heard anything about the content of her conversations/texts with her friends and Tony that day? If she told any of them that she needed a sitter that day, she is toast. Too much to hope for??????:waitasec:

 

[nanny2five]

Another haunting remark that comes to mind every so often that I have not heard an explanation for is ~ when Lee asks KC something like, was it like what happened before? or, the same thing that happened before?

Lee suggests that something else had happened before - a near accident? a lashing out of some sort? a drunk fest? leaving Caylee unattended? a seizure? - one can only imagine. I wonder what he was referring to.

i saw that too Woe.be.gone in my memory lee says "was it like the last time" but i could be wrong about the exact wording. i wondered if maybe Caylee had almost gotten into the pool or even gotten in and they found her in the nick of time. i dont really believe she drowned in the pool but if we knew what lee was talking about when he said that it might shed some light on the matter.

 

[TallyHo]

Bumping for re-revisiting... :crazy:

 

[pip]

Ahhh, when all else has failed at pin the tail on the donkey, the defense resorts to "it was an accident" (which I do not believe at all). This tells us the defense is at the end of their rope with drumming up a plausible 'she didn't do it' defense for her. So ICA is ready to say Caylee drown and she disposed of the body? Explain the duct tape. Wouldn't this defense require ICA to take the stand to change her sworn story from Zanny to a drowning?

 

[believe09]

Certainly will solidify a judgement on Zanny's lawsuit. Just sayin.

 

[cloud9]

Just thinking...

IF Caylee drowned in the pool from an accident, ICA could have called 911. Would that not have served ICA (in her own mind) well in getting rid of Caylee once and for all.

IF ICA drowned Caylee (not an accident) would it not have served ICA well by calling 911 and claiming it WAS an accident?

Easier, did, done and over.

BUT that's not how things played out. Sooooo, as far as the pool what am I missing?