Caylee not in woods until after Casey was locked up proves she's innocent.

[Clock's Tickin]

Just to make sure we see both sides, remember that the prosecution still hasn't published a cause of death. This WILL BE problematic for a murder trial. They are relying very heavily on circumstantial evidence INCLUDING connections with KC and the discovery scene. If they can get a jury to buy this theory of the remains being placed after KC was jailed, it will certainly make for reasonable doubt...and reasonable doubt is all it takes. The defense only LOOKS like they are playing games--they are actually very cunning as a team. I still believe the prosecution hasn't delivered everything, so I feel pretty sure they will get their conviction, but we should not underestimate ANYONE in this case!

 

[Eidetic]

Hahaha - I hit the article bar to read the article and it came up "Bad Request" - I think that says it all!

:aktion033: Links aren't working here, either. cguru:

 

[Tulessa]

Video: Casey
http://www.cfnews13.com/MediaPlayer2...al&title=Casey

Article:
http://www.cfnews13.com/News/Local/2...e_experts.html

To all you sleuthers with far more energy to keep up with this case than I ever will, what are your thoughts about this? Do you think the jury will buy it? Can you make a good argument against Baez's claim or for it?

Baez is lining up interviews with all the searchers who claim they were in those woods off Hopespring Drive, and didn't see anything, from LEOs to Dominic, to Texas Equisearch volunteers, a psychic, and so on.

I have never seen a defense abandon more strategies than this one. Is that something that can be discussed during the trial? I'm asking because I don't know. It sure seems relevant though.

How will he explain the large roots growing through Caylee's tiny bones.:furious:

 

[thedeviledadvocate]

How will he explain the large roots growing through Caylee's tiny bones.:furious:

Hopefully the prosecutions expert witnesses can prove beyond a reasonable doubt during cross examination, that the remains were there for four to six months. And hopefully the defense experts fail to bring reasonable doubt to the four to six month scenario while they are under cross examination by the prosecution.

 

[KenoshaKid]

I still don't see where even IF the body was moved that it would prove anything other than that the body was moved. Casey could have murdered Caylee and if someone moved the body after that, the fact she murdered Caylee hasn't changed, right? What am I missing here?

EXACTLY!!!! :banghead:

 

[Searchfortruth]

Even if the defense tries to float the, "Caylee was discarded while Casey was in jail" theory, there are too many other links that point to Casey and Casey alone. All of the items found with Caylee come from Casey's home...duct tape, winnie the pooh blanket, canvas bag, trash bags, clothes and on and on. Casey's car trunk held a decomposing body during this time frame, a hair microscopically similar to Caylee's with signs of decomposition was found in Casey's trunk.

There is just no solid evidence pointing to anyone but Casey.

 

[dizzychick]

Didnt Tim from Equasearch comment that women who kill their children usually place them within 3 miles of their home? This fits the crime scene.

It was most unfortunate little Caylee wasnt found earlier however it does not point to any one other than Casey as the LE knows via plant evidence and witness reports that the only person who placed Caylee in those woods was Casey. It sickens me to see the defense use every piece of fact in this case and try to twist it to fit their plan for an aquittal.
I hope each and every time the defense tries these tactics, they back-fire BIG TIME and Casey gets pushed a little farther down the death row . This crime IMHO fits all the criteria for such a punishment as it was a horrific and wicked offense.

God rest that poor child's soul.
Dizzy

 

[marspiter]

Just to make sure we see both sides, remember that the prosecution still hasn't published a cause of death. This WILL BE problematic for a murder trial. They are relying very heavily on circumstantial evidence INCLUDING connections with KC and the discovery scene. If they can get a jury to buy this theory of the remains being placed after KC was jailed, it will certainly make for reasonable doubt...and reasonable doubt is all it takes. The defense only LOOKS like they are playing games--they are actually very cunning as a team. I still believe the prosecution hasn't delivered everything, so I feel pretty sure they will get their conviction, but we should not underestimate ANYONE in this case!

The prosecution isn't required to show a cause of death only that the victim is indeed dead. I see what your saying though and agree that a cause of death would blow this case wide open. However I'm pretty sure the state doesn't have that kind of evidence. Don't think there was anyway for them to get that kind of evidence given the time that Caylee's remains sat in the elements.

I think the defense is going to have a very hard time proving the remains weren't there and were placed by someone other the Casey. The car evidence, root growth, bone scatter, items from the Anthony home, eye witness testimony. All the evidence in this case points to Caylee last being with Casey, Caylee was no longer seen after a certain date, and Caylee's body was in Casey's car. The problem for the defense is that reasonable doubt has to be.......reasonable.

As regards the remains site and searches. It would not take a large amount of "flood water" to make searching such an area nearly impossible. We aren't talking about a cut wheat field in Kansas. Given the "swampy" conditions and the over growth of vegetation coupled with the area being used as a local dumping ground. It would be near impossible to find a needle in that hay stack. I'm not entirely certain but I don't think dogs would have helped either do to Caylee already being skeletonized by the time the search efforts got under way. As an example searchers and police did an extensive search of the area Elizabeth Olten's body was in. It wasn't until the murderer came forward and showed them where to find her that she was found. Missouri ain't exactly swampy conditions in Florida either.

What this case boils down to me is this. Can someone cover their tracks enough to circumvent justice? Does money and/or high profile attorneys really buy a NG verdict in our system of justice. To me those are the real two questions the jury will be answering.

 

[cyberborg]

The defense can whine all they want saying that Caylee was put in the woods after Casey was jailed, but the problem with their theory is the forensic plant report does not support it. Plants have their cycle of growth and the roots growing through Caylees body prove that she was there when the searchers supposedly were in the woods. Caylees body was simply concealed in mud and plants and other debris. The jury will in my opinion will consider their claim for a moment until the report on the plant growth will be exposed debunking the myth.

:clap::clap::clap::clap:

 

[cyberborg]

Didnt Tim from Equasearch comment that women who kill their children usually place them within 3 miles of their home? This fits the crime scene.

It was most unfortunate little Caylee wasnt found earlier however it does not point to any one other than Casey as the LE knows via plant evidence and witness reports that the only person who placed Caylee in those woods was Casey. It sickens me to see the defense use every piece of fact in this case and try to twist it to fit their plan for an aquittal.
I hope each and every time the defense tries these tactics, they back-fire BIG TIME and Casey gets pushed a little farther down the death row . This crime IMHO fits all the criteria for such a punishment as it was a horrific and wicked offense.

God rest that poor child's soul.
Dizzy

BBM.

O/T but KC will walk all the way to the end of Death Row and will turn and tell the guards that it was all a lie, it was really just an accident. :banghead: Sorry couldn't resist.

 

[Searchfortruth]

BBM.

O/T but KC will walk all the way to the end of Death Row and will turn and tell the guards that it was all a lie, it was really just an accident. :banghead: Sorry couldn't resist.

She will probably also tell them that the Governor called her personally, before they came, and issued a stay of execution, from a private number of course.

 

[Eidetic]

She will probably also tell them that the Governor called her personally, before they came, and issued a stay of execution, from a private number of course.

:spit:

 

[Muzikman]

The prosecution isn't required to show a cause of death only that the victim is indeed dead. I see what your saying though and agree that a cause of death would blow this case wide open. However I'm pretty sure the state doesn't have that kind of evidence. Don't think there was anyway for them to get that kind of evidence given the time that Caylee's remains sat in the elements.

I think the defense is going to have a very hard time proving the remains weren't there and were placed by someone other the Casey. The car evidence, root growth, bone scatter, items from the Anthony home, eye witness testimony. All the evidence in this case points to Caylee last being with Casey, Caylee was no longer seen after a certain date, and Caylee's body was in Casey's car. The problem for the defense is that reasonable doubt has to be.......reasonable.

As regards the remains site and searches. It would not take a large amount of "flood water" to make searching such an area nearly impossible. We aren't talking about a cut wheat field in Kansas. Given the "swampy" conditions and the over growth of vegetation coupled with the area being used as a local dumping ground. It would be near impossible to find a needle in that hay stack. I'm not entirely certain but I don't think dogs would have helped either do to Caylee already being skeletonized by the time the search efforts got under way. As an example searchers and police did an extensive search of the area Elizabeth Olten's body was in. It wasn't until the murderer came forward and showed them where to find her that she was found. Missouri ain't exactly swampy conditions in Florida either.

What this case boils down to me is this. Can someone cover their tracks enough to circumvent justice? Does money and/or high profile attorneys really buy a NG verdict in our system of justice. To me those are the real two questions the jury will be answering.

Marspiter, this great post deserved repeating, with an emphasis on the bolded parts.

Valhall has some GREAT analysis on her blog of not only K9 info, but WIND DIRECTIONS the days the dogs were there. It seems the wind wasn't blowing the right way... even if there was much to smell by that time, as Caylee was likely skeletonized by that point.

Love your sig, BTW. :dance:

 

[cecybeans]

I'm not sure what all this water stuff is supposed to prove anyway; it's based on averages in any given area, and I'm sure Muzikman and all our other FL friends can verify it can be raining on one side of the street at any given time and dry on the other.

Even though Fay did dump a lot during those days, another factor that has not been taken into effect by some is the topography of that specific site. Little micro hills and valleys can hold water for a long time while places a foot or two away can be relatively dry.

I also don't understand folks who are talking about whether an ATV would hold up in the mud. It might for recreational purposes, but even the slightest mud can create a situation in which footprints alone can trample evidence (especially skeletonized and scattered remains) and make it impossible to locate, much less something as large and heavy as an ATV tread. When it comes to searching for a decomposed body, NO pressure is acceptable, much less a huge vehicle potentially trampling evidence.

The fact is, Caylee's remains were skeletonized in mid-August - RK did not report finding a body, he reported finding something that looked like a skull. That would indicate the body had been in the elements several weeks already. The botany and entomology reports support this much more than fantastic notions that somehow RK got access to KC's car.

The defense will be able to create doubt on small and specific pieces of circumstantial evidence, but the beauty of circumstantial evidence is that it is not like a single sword which can break in half and destroy its worth, but works together like small links in chain mail and supports the most logical theory with the strength of a whole. Even if one or two pieces of evidence is questioned, the fabric of the entirety does not support any other convoluted theory other than the simple obvious one, imo.

 

[dizzychick]

BBM.

O/T but KC will walk all the way to the end of Death Row and will turn and tell the guards that it was all a lie, it was really just an accident. :banghead: Sorry couldn't resist.

you know your probably right, I can see her doing just that

 

[JustJax]

The defense can whine all they want saying that Caylee was put in the woods after Casey was jailed, but the problem with their theory is the forensic plant report does not support it. Plants have their cycle of growth and the roots growing through Caylees body prove that she was there when the searchers supposedly were in the woods. Caylees body was simply concealed in mud and plants and other debris. The jury will in my opinion will consider their claim for a moment until the report on the plant growth will be exposed debunking the myth.

(mybold)

Of course this is huge...but I don't think SODDI with even hold any water because I don't think anyone can get past Caylee's (sorry sweet babe) decomp evidence in the Casey's car that SHE abandoned. All of the dead squirrel excusses were already in place.
How could the Defense ever possibly explain the dead baby going from Casey's car to, some mysterious hiding place, to be kept until if and when Casey was incarcerated again?? Any other possible perp could not possibly have foreseen the date and time she would be locked up again so they could transport their grissley package and deposit it up the road a piece to frame her.
Where the hell are their senses of logic and reasoning at??? :waitasec: It's all just utterly rediculous and futile IMO....if this case wasn't so sad, tragic and horrific, I would even use the adjective LAUGHABLE! :furious:

 

[mommabear]

It could mean she had help. This "fact" from the defense doesn't prove innocence imo.

I remember when Casey had to come to one of her hearings (in the very beginning) before Caylee's remains were located...GA & CA had just been interviewed by Larry King and they were coming back to Florida from LA, they had stated over and over again in that interview with Larry King that they were checking out another sighting of a little girl that someone claimed looked just like Caylee.:waitasec:

That morning, while they (CA & GA) were preparing to come back to Orlando, Casey had this hearing (I can't remember what for); no one was there for her from the family, except....LA! Now, later that morning...Caylee's remains were found...coincidence??? I think LA came to this hearing and sat in the front row to somehow let KC know that he was tired of their parents being made to look like "fools" with all of the imaginary "sightings" of Caylee:banghead:, I also think that DC & LA decided that if the remains were found while KC was in jail, that might help her case in some way:angel:

...I think that KC provided LA with some "clues" during their mysterious style "chat" while she was behind bars and he told DC, the two of them figured out where to locate the remains and then set-up someone like RK with an "anonymous" tip that would make him go out there and look again, and if it worked, well, then they could lay the ground work for someone else to find the remains and possibly become "suspect"...:liar::liar:

I think KC was "shocked" that Caylee was found because the only person that knew where she would be, is LA...and he would never betray her confidences, right? With this scenario, it seems like some of the pieces of the puzzle actually "fit"...with the ultimate determination that KC and only KC killed this precious baby, and her brother did what he had to do to get their parents off of the "prime time" news junkett spouting their outlandish accusations and looking like total idiots...JMHO...

 

[azwriter]

Video: Casey
http://www.cfnews13.com/MediaPlayer2...al&title=Casey

Article:
http://www.cfnews13.com/News/Local/2...e_experts.html

To all you sleuthers with far more energy to keep up with this case than I ever will, what are your thoughts about this? Do you think the jury will buy it? Can you make a good argument against Baez's claim or for it?

Baez is lining up interviews with all the searchers who claim they were in those woods off Hopespring Drive, and didn't see anything, from LEOs to Dominic, to Texas Equisearch volunteers, a psychic, and so on.

I have never seen a defense abandon more strategies than this one. Is that something that can be discussed during the trial? I'm asking because I don't know. It sure seems relevant though.

Great question for a thread!
Sorry, but you can't fool Mother Nature. Caylee's body was surrounded by the natural growth and cycle that goes on in the area where she was found.
I do believe the jury will understand and buy testimony from experts who can set the scene of how the earth around the remains continued on. Plants, insects, everything with a growth cycle, that has gone on over and over for years and years and years, will show the body was there at a particular time of that life cycle of growth. This is scientific proof that can pinpoint how long a body has been in a specific area.
JMO, of course.

 

[notthatsmart]

In my humble opinion, of course. The science that we all read in the documents were indeed read, not listened to. The reports are scientific and were not explained in laymens terms. We are the average jury pool, mixed ages and backgrounds, so unless the court picks a jury pool that cannot read or write then it is a fair bet that the "average Joe" will certainly understand the reports of plant material growth and will be able to add 1+1 and come to the logical explanation that Caylee was in the woods the entire time.

I suppose I almost become offended by the notion that the defense would ascertain that the majority of the "average Joe's" cannot understand logic or scientifically proven reports of plant growth that remained undisturbed for months allowing roots to grow through the skeletal remains. I believe it was in the 4th grade that I had to do a science report using Hypothesis, Theory, materials, experiment with controls, observations and conclusion.
The scientists didn't misinterpret anything, it's all there for the jury to read without needing oral commentary.

Yeah I guess I am one of those people that interpret the document differently than most. First, Dr Hall says in his report that he came to the crime scene on December 15th (long after the body had been removed) Second, he bases his findings on a picture or several pictures. He estimates the size of the roots to be 1 to 2 mm in diameter. That being said, he estimates that 1 being 3 months and 2 being 6 months. Months later, the SA brings him pictures of clusters. I am not sure he ever viewed any plant material growing through the bones first hand.

 

[RR0004]

Yeah I guess I am one of those people that interpret the document differently than most. First, Dr Hall says in his report that he came to the crime scene on December 15th (long after the body had been removed) Second, he bases his findings on a picture or several pictures. He estimates the size of the roots to be 1 to 2 mm in diameter. That being said, he estimates that 1 being 3 months and 2 being 6 months. Months later, the SA brings him pictures of clusters. I am not sure he ever viewed any plant material growing through the bones first hand.

But, those that collected the remains did. And IIRC the plants were growing through other things as well.