Child of Rage

[IHAVENOCLUE]

All these pix are so HAUNTED! :what:

 

[Bonnette]

Is it just me, or are JB's eyes super dilated in these photos?

No, it's not just you! Her eyes are very dilated, and in fact her whole visage looks creepy and spaced-out to me. But then, everything is wrong with these pictures...everything.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

3 LOU SMIT: But didn't you board your dog over
4 at the Barnhill's?
5 JOHN RAMSEY: We did. They became attached
6 to him. We had them keep him once or twice and
7 they really loved him. They lost their dog and he
8 died and so they really became attached to
9 Jacques, and it was kind of a good setup because
10 they took care of him and the kids could play with
11 him. So it was, for us, it was, as parents, it was
12 kind of neat.
13 LOU SMIT: So did the kids go over there
14 quite often?
15 JOHN RAMSEY: Yeah. It was not uncommon for
16 them to go over there or Jacques would come over.
17 He'd stay with us sometimes and he became
18 increasingly their dog because they were just so
19 attached to it. And we thought it was kind of nice
20 because they were older. It was nice companionship
21 for them. It was kind of neat for us because the
22 kids could still have a dog and we didn't have to
23 deal with a dog 24 hours a day.
24 So, more and more as time went on, he stayed more
25 at the Barnhills than he did at our house.

PETER BOYLES: "Jacque the dog, again, JonBenet's dog, but the dog was given to the people across the street. A lot of people have talked about where was the dog that night. The dog had been given to the neighbors because the neighbors quote, liked the dog and so the dog lived there. What can you tell us about the dog?"

LINDA WILCOX: "Well, first of all, Patsy didn't want a dog. And, she didn't want JonBenet to have a dog. This particular dog didn't get the potty training thing down very well, he tended to leave puddles. He was pretty much relegated to the wood floor at the bottom of the spiral staircase and out the side door off the patio. However, they had, John told Patsy to get JonBenet a dog. It was John's decision to get a dog and Patsy chose a Bichon. She got it from a pet store, and I came there one day, his name was Jacques, a little guy, cute little furball. Well, one day the dog went to the vet and came back. But the dog that went to the vet was smaller than the dog that left. I had said something to Patsy, the next week I walked in and I asked Patsy what happened to Jacques. She's like, "What?" And I said, this isn't Jacques. And she's like, SHHHH, don't tell anyone, no one else knows. Turns out the first dog had something wrong like some kind of liver disease or something and it was dying. It was a bad dog, so she called the pet store and made a switch before anyone knew.

One more thing...I think the first summer, the summer of '94, they took the dog with them to Michigan. See Patsy took care of the dog, John took no responsibility for it whatsoever. He tolerated it at best. And, if it got anything of his, heaven forbid. I don't know this, but I think they got rid of the dog because when they were in Michigan, they were busy with pageants. They were doing other things and there was no one to look after the dog. I think they gave it to the neighbors when they left for the summer because they didn't want to hassle with the dog. Life was good for them until it was inconvenient."

Someone posted this on a forum in '03:

I just wanted to set the record straight about Patsy, John and the Barnhills. From the day of JonBenet's murder neither John nor Patsy contacted the Barnhills. Even though Jacques was supposedly JonBenet's dog. Joe Barnhill and I have spoken on numerous occasions and he very sadly said he has never been contacted by the family and doesn't know why. The only one that contacted him was one of their investigators telling him to "be quiet- and never talk about what he saw the morning of the murder"...He said "they told me I was mistaken"....I found that to be very odd. Never once was he contacted when his wife was deathly ill and ultimately died very near the time that Nedra died.

Also, the media interview Joe Barnhill for the 5th anniversary, and referring to Jacques, he said, "I think he's mine" which definitely makes it sound like the R's didn't talk to him post-murder.

 

[UKGuy]

Over the years, I've often wondered about the Ramsey dog, a Bichon Frise (a cross between a water spaniel and poodle). These dogs are often groomed in the same fussy kind of way that JBR was.

Kolar mentions in his book that the Ramseys "shared custody" of the dog - an interesting turn of phrase. What does this suggest? Were the Ramseys away from home so often that the dog would have lived at a kennel, otherwise? Was something happening in the home that made it more convenient for the dog to be elsewhere at times? Was the dog not well treated, and needing a break? Were JR and BR incapable of looking after an animal when JBR and PR were pageant-ing?

After JBR's murder, the dog went to live permanently with the neighbors, which strikes me as one more atypical thing about the setup in the Ramsey home. One might opine that the dog liked the neighbors and was given to them permanently because the Ramsey house was in chaos as a result of the murder; but added to other elements in the curious picture that emerges of the Ramsey family, it gives me pause.

Like you, Dodie, I was struck by statements about JBR loving the dog and visiting him. To my knowledge, no mention has been made of Burke's interaction with animals. I've often wondered about this issue.

Bonnette,
Yes interesting points. Particularly about BR, worth a follow up. I've always had the impression that the R's had so much money, that they simply indulged their latest whims or desires?

.

 

[Bonnette]

I've always had the impression that the R's had so much money, that they simply indulged their latest whims or desires?.

Right, same here. Eileen's post (above) offers chilling insights into just how this dog was viewed from the outset, as basically an uninteresting and unwanted prop.

 

[txsvicki]

The dog was too much trouble to work and persevere at potty training. Sounds like he did pretty well if he held it until the patio door. The adults couldn't wean or potty train kids much less a puppy.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

From a June 1998 interview:

PATSY RAMSEY: Well, he had been
4 going to see his -- he has a therapist, a child
5 therapist, and I just, I wanted at make sure
6 that we take care of our mental health, all of
7 us, during this, because particularly for him,
8 you now when he's 40 to have repercussions of
9 all this. So he had been in therapy, and, then
10 we knew ahead, before Burke did, that it was
11 going to be okay to have the interviews with --
12 fellows were going to come to Atlanta, and it
13 was going to be kind of a kid friendly
14 environment and all that.
15 And I think Dr. Jaffe said to him,
16 in his most recent, you know, closest to the
17 time of the interview that those people were
18 going to come from Colorado and that they were
19 really knuckling down on the investigation and
20 wanted his cooperation again. That Dr. Jaffe
21 would be there. You know. It would be okay.
22 And so that's about the extent to
23 which I spoke with him about it. Well, he kept
24 wanting to know why we weren't going to
25 Charlevoix. You know, let's go, let's go, let's
0126
1 go. I said well, actually next week a couple of
2 folks are coming from Colorado and they want to
3 ask some questions about anything you might
4 remember, you know, that's all.

 

[hetty]

Did anyone notice that in the programme the mother caught the little girl masturbating openly, publically in the back of the car?

Something discussed elsewhere on the board in relation to this case I remember, something that had been an issue within the R family.

 

[dodie20]

I just did a little research, and Mr Barnhill, is the neighbor who reported seeing JAR at the R's on Christmas. He also said that when the police asked him to stop giving interviews, it was at the request of the Rs. The nerve! In 1 interview, JR said He went to the Bs to retrieve JBs bike, and even offered to fetch it from the basement, but in his book, he said that Mr Barnhill, (who was so old and decrepit, he could barely write), hand delivered it to his house. Again, the nerve! And this is the account I believe, because in yet another interview, JR said that he had only been in the house once, to eat dinner. But, the doggy custody was a very bizarre arrangement, to say the least, and for JR to call the set-op, 'neat', is arrogant, IMO. The way PR made the dog swap, and then the way they abandoned him, is disturbing. A living creature was treated like a toss away thing, but, IMO, the dog was better off out of the Rs house...too bad JB couldn't get out too. All moo.

 

[dodie20]

From a June 1998 interview:

PR usuing the age '40', as the age for repercussions is interesting, don't you think? because she herself, was just shy of 40, when all this happened. moo

 

[txsvicki]

I've wondered if she expected john to live until about age 85 when burke would be around 40 years old. Maybe thinking ahead in case he starts talking after john is dead and will read, then he can be labelled crazy by the other relatives.

 

[sharkeyes]

Creepy photos...weird expressions, inappropriate (IMO) poses,....freaky stuff.

Now, as far as Child of Rage goes, I remember seeing that on HBO years back; but I watched the YouTube video to refresh my memory. Here is what I see:

A total sociopathic personality, e.g. Richard Kuklinski, aka "The Iceman" (search YouTube for videos of him being interviewed if you're interested).
No empathy.
Flat affect, no expression.
No sense of remorse.
A child who lives in her own head.
A child who believes those she hurts or wants to hurt deserve it.
A child who was taught by masters.

 

[dodie20]

Creepy photos...weird expressions, inappropriate (IMO) poses,....freaky stuff.

Now, as far as Child of Rage goes, I remember seeing that on HBO years back; but I watched the YouTube video to refresh my memory. Here is what I see:

A total sociopathic personality, e.g. Richard Kuklinski, aka "The Iceman" (search YouTube for videos of him being interviewed if you're interested).
No empathy.
Flat affect, no expression.
No sense of remorse.
A child who lives in her own head.
A child who believes those she hurts or wants to hurt deserve it.
A child who was taught by masters.

unless my research is off, this little girl grew up to be a success story. But, every time I read about serial killers, I think about stories like this, and wonder how they can be expected to turn out any other way. Like Eilene Warnos. She had a horrible, horrible life, and she turned out exacly like she should have. The same thing for Danny Rolling, who went on a killing spree. His life was just awful, and all of the abuse really messed up his mind. Parents turn their children into monsters, and almost never have to answer for their sins.

 

[Mama-cita]

Count me in as thinking the pics are über creepy. Man, Nedra is one skeery looking woman! We're talking Nurse Ratched scary!

 

[Pensfan]

Is it just me, or are JB's eyes super dilated in these photos?

Yes, her pupils are dilated which is really hinky when you consider that the studio lights should have constricted her pupils. Was JB prescribed Ritalin or an equivalent?

Pensfan
verified psychiatric mental health nurse

 

[eileenhawkeye]

Would you say that JonBenet's pupils look dilated in this picture too? This picture has always stood out to me because I feel like her pupils look abnormally big:

 

[midwest mama]

I cannot believe that I haven't followed this case. This is pure narcissism, before my very eyes

Amen and Amen to you!!! I have used the term 'narcissism' throughout my posts on threads in this forum with regard to the Ramseys. The BEHAVIORAL aspects in this case just reek of it. :maddening:

From Kolar's book, pg 279-280:

"It has been my experience that the interpretation of a crime involves an understanding of the dynamics and psychology of human behavior. As humans, our behavior tends to reveal our motives, and we all behave for specific intent and purpose. We are driven by our desires and objectives.

Determining motive demands more than the simple task of following the physical evidence. Uncovering motive involves careful evaluation of all the elements associated with a crime.

Solving a crime requires a comprehensive, objective interpretation of both the physical evidence and the human behavior associated with the events under investigation."

Hope to see you back on other threads as well, badhorsie:seeya:

 

[sharkeyes]

View attachment 26007

(You can click on the photo to see a larger version)

Had to come back and look at that one again....I don't know why, but to me they look like they are characters in some steamy, dysfunctional, brooding Tennessee Williams play, like Cat on a Hot Tin Roof on steroids. "....and Big Mama too......"

 

[Pensfan]

Would you say that JonBenet's pupils look dilated in this picture too? This picture has always stood out to me because I feel like her pupils look abnormally big:

Wow. Her pupils are really dilated in that photo too. I wonder what medication Perfect Patsy was giving her? Some antidepressants cause dilated pupils. Anticholinergics will do the same. Maybe JB was given an anticholinergic to help her incontinence? Hmmm. With her pupils dilated to that size, JB would have experienced pain in any amount of sunlight. She wouldn't be able to play outside or even ride in a car without sunglasses.

 

[txsvicki]

My pupils were always dilated as a child with no medication at all, so it could be possible to happen naturally. Age 6 is about the right age to start givi g add meds though. They can really decrease appetite and i doubt if patsy would want much weight lost with the pageants being the main focus of life.