Cincinnati Zoo kills gorilla after child gets into his cage, May 28, 2016

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I responded to an earlier post on this thread about a child leaving the house while parent/s slept. In this local drowning case, the parents have been charged with second degree murder in the death of their little girl.

Parents charged in 2-year-old's drowning in Dearborn

Both charged with second-degree murder, other charges


By John Steckroth - Digital news editor

Posted: 10:48 AM, June 10, 2016
Updated: 10:55 AM, June 10, 2016

DEARBORN, Mich. - The parents of a 2-year-old girl who died after falling into a neighbor’s pool in Dearborn were charged with second-degree murder and are expected to be arraigned Friday.

The Wayne County Prosecutor’s Office authorized charges for the parents on Thursday.

Both parents are charged with second-degree murder, involuntary manslaughter and second-degree child abuse.

The parents were taken into custody without incident.

Their arraignment is scheduled for Friday at 2:15 p.m...

http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/...gn=Breaking News Alert&utm_term=wdiv_breaking

ETA: Additional link
http://www.detroitnews.com/story/ne.../06/10/parents-drowned-pool-charged/85694436/
From the first link...

Neighbors in the area say police have been to the girl’s home before and the kids are often found wandering the neighborhood.

“Those kids seem to be escape artists, but I think they’re just negligent parents who are sleeping all the time,” neighbor Vincent Laing said.

Police confirmed that child protective services had been involved at some point.

I suspect there's drugs involved along with serious neglect.

As opposed to (from the presser announcing no charges) ...

Discussing the May 28 incident, Deters said the boy's mother "did not act in any way where she presented this child to some harm. She had three other children with her and turned her back."

[Snip]

Witnesses said that it all unfolded in a matter of seconds, Deters said, relaying what was told to investigators in a case that has attracted wide attention.

[Snip]

He added that the boy was not hurt in the incident, adding later that social workers had been "very impressed" with the conditions inside the family's home

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-...-family-in-gorilla-incident-at-cincinnati-zoo


ETA

Not saying you were comparing the charges vs lack of charges, Bette, I just thought the differences were noteworthy.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk
 
...Not saying you were comparing the charges vs lack of charges, Bette, I just thought the differences were noteworthy.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

Simply acknowledging that there are definitely times when parent/s are charged with neglect when it's determined that they are/were just that. I agree that drugs/alcohol are likely involved in the drowning case, plus the fact that this is not the first time these youngsters have "escaped" while their parents slept. Parents in zoo case are not being charged because there was no negligence determined during thorough investigation.
 
wyle - thanks for posting and pointing out the misinformation that is still being spread, it is amazing how many established facts people are ignoring, yet they also keep repeating complete falsehoods and social media nonsense.
 
I think it is just a matter of time before this mother sues the zoo. She is waiting for all the media frenzy to cool down IMO.

This is the family's cash cow that dropped out of the sky! There is no way they are going to let this incident go by without a suit. Just wait, you will see.

Some people cannot look at the fact that their son was very fortunate not to have been hurt. They need to count their blessings and not be greedy. Had he been hurt, sure, there would have been a big law suit! But, he wasn't hurt, so what's the lawsuit for?

I have been to Cincy zoo many times. So have millions of other people. Why is it that this one child breaks thru the barriers and gets into the animal compound? There have been many children at the zoo with parents who are inattentive or barely watching their children. IIRC, the zoo does have attendants that walk around the large dangerous animals to make sure visitors are behaving. As we all know, a child is fast and small at this age and in a split second can do something unimaginable if not being watched.

My personal opinion is that if this mother cannot say a simple "Thank You" to the zoo for protecting her son, she is showing us a side I do not admire or respect. This also leads me strongly to believe that she will be suing.

My opinions only.



"so what's the lawsuit for?"

what lawsuit? the entirely fictional one that the woman has stated she has no intent to file?
 
Well, IMO, there is currently a social climate in the U.S. to deny any and all personal responsibility for bad outcomes-- it's always someone or something else's "fault" when there is a bad outcome.

The overwhelming attitude, IMO, is that parents are not responsible for parenting anymore. And neither is "the village" of other parents, who will be sued if they try to step in or interfere in any way to help or save a child. If there is a bad outcome, the early and persistent parental goal, IMO, is to sue the deep pockets to win a bunch of money. It's far, far easier (and more socially acceptable lately) to do things like blame the zoo and sue them, than to admit that parents need to closely supervise their active kids.

I realize that no criminal charges were recommended against this mother, and I didn't expect charges in light of the case with the toddler in the African painted dogs exhibit. But IMO, she is still 100% responsible for what happened, even if it's not a criminal case. If 4 kids were too many for her to properly supervise, then she should not have taken 4 kids all at once.

I think the zoo should sue her for negligent supervision of her child, which lead to the shooting of the endangered gorilla, and the loss of their property, and future gorilla breeding of Harambe. Among other losses and expenses the zoo has experienced due to her negligence, IMO.

At a minimum, she should be banned from ever setting foot in that zoo again, IMO. None of this is the fault of the zoo, IMO.

Sue her for what? If every business sued parents that lost contact with their child for a moment they'd be a lot of rich lawyers around, and they'd be the only people benefitting from such a legal mess.

I don't think people are blaming the zoo any more than the parents, as far as the investigation went it was put down to a tragic set of circumstances with nobody in particular at fault.

Banning the mother for life seems rather snippy IMO and again, she's not suing the zoo or asking for compensation.
 
I responded to an earlier post on this thread about a child leaving the house while parent/s slept. In this local drowning case, the parents have been charged with second degree murder in the death of their little girl.

Parents charged in 2-year-old's drowning in Dearborn

Both charged with second-degree murder, other charges


By John Steckroth - Digital news editor

Posted: 10:48 AM, June 10, 2016
Updated: 10:55 AM, June 10, 2016

DEARBORN, Mich. - The parents of a 2-year-old girl who died after falling into a neighbor’s pool in Dearborn were charged with second-degree murder and are expected to be arraigned Friday.

The Wayne County Prosecutor’s Office authorized charges for the parents on Thursday.

Both parents are charged with second-degree murder, involuntary manslaughter and second-degree child abuse.

The parents were taken into custody without incident.

Their arraignment is scheduled for Friday at 2:15 p.m...

http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/...gn=Breaking News Alert&utm_term=wdiv_breaking

ETA: Additional link
http://www.detroitnews.com/story/ne.../06/10/parents-drowned-pool-charged/85694436/

Those charges are totally ridiculous. What the hell do they think the parents should have done? Handcuffed the kid to the bed while they slept, maybe? That would probably be considered child abuse. This country is getting to the point where anybody can be thrown in jail, for any reason. No wonder we have the largest prison population in the world. :facepalm:
 
Those charges are totally ridiculous. What the hell do they think the parents should have done? Handcuffed the kid to the bed while they slept, maybe? That would probably be considered child abuse. This country is getting to the point where anybody can be thrown in jail, for any reason. No wonder we have the largest prison population in the world. :facepalm:

Strange story. There is a thread open for it.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-drowned-parents-charged-Dearborn-3-June-2016
 
Well, IMO, there is currently a social climate in the U.S. to deny any and all personal responsibility for bad outcomes-- it's always someone or something else's "fault" when there is a bad outcome.

The overwhelming attitude, IMO, is that parents are not responsible for parenting anymore. And neither is "the village" of other parents, who will be sued if they try to step in or interfere in any way to help or save a child. If there is a bad outcome, the early and persistent parental goal, IMO, is to sue the deep pockets to win a bunch of money. It's far, far easier (and more socially acceptable lately) to do things like blame the zoo and sue them, than to admit that parents need to closely supervise their active kids.

I realize that no criminal charges were recommended against this mother, and I didn't expect charges in light of the case with the toddler in the African painted dogs exhibit. But IMO, she is still 100% responsible for what happened, even if it's not a criminal case. If 4 kids were too many for her to properly supervise, then she should not have taken 4 kids all at once.

I think the zoo should sue her for negligent supervision of her child, which lead to the shooting of the endangered gorilla, and the loss of their property, and future gorilla breeding of Harambe. Among other losses and expenses the zoo has experienced due to her negligence, IMO.

At a minimum, she should be banned from ever setting foot in that zoo again
, IMO. None of this is the fault of the zoo, IMO.
Excellent post! Completely agree!!! You stately so eloquently what I have been trying to.:clap::clap::clap::goodpost:
 
Snipped for focus.

I think there is a "reasonable" and common sense factor here that seems to escape the consideration of some apologists who desperately want the zoo to be at fault. Like every zoo, this zoo has numerous signs advising not to touch, feed, harass, or interact with the animals, and numerous redundant barriers to allow viewing, but prevent casual, or even determined entry into the exhibits. This woman knew it was a zoo with animals, she speaks English fluently, and presumably is able to read English.

So let me give a comparable example from a highly developed nation (not a 3rd world country). I have spent a lot of time in Germany. I can speak and read a few words of German, but I am far, far from even basic conversational skills, and I am certainly not fluent. But I still retain my intelligence, despite the language barrier, right? I don't lose my adult reasoning abilities, or lose my common sense, or become stupid about dangerous things just because I don't speak the language fluently of whatever country I'm currently in.

So, I have taken my kids several times to Freizeit-Land in central Germany, which is a standard amusement ride park, with a zoo.

Here it is:

http://www.freizeitlandgeiselwind.de/attraktionen

Several of the rides for small kids there are unattended by park staff, with just signs (in German) advising adults how to put the kids on the rides, and dangers to watch out for. One ride is a slow-ish swan boat ride that goes in a circle in the water. You walk up and pace the ride, and sort of fling your kids into the swan boat, then haul them out when they've gone around enough times. Another is like a hot air balloon thing that goes in an elliptical circle. That one simply has a red line painted on the ground ("risk of death or head injury if hit"-- in German), and no rails or fences, you strap your kid in, and then push the button on the same post for it to go. (Then run like he77 so you don't get whacked in the head by the ride.) There isn't a lot of "suing" or complaining going on by Germans because there aren't 18 redundant safety barriers-- it's expected that adults will have enough sense to evaluate the situation.

My point here is that even with my limited language skills, I'm able to determine what is safe for my kid (and me, lol!), and what isn't, and when I should be closely supervising them. Or I'm aware I should leave the park if it appears to be too much danger for me to properly supervise my kids. I have options, just like this mom did. She chose to allow her attention to be so distracted and removed from supervising her child (in a crowded public place!!) that he took advantage and intentionally breached all of the barriers. He's a very young, active child with no judgement or appreciation of consequences-- not his fault-- fault of the adult in charge. She owns a daycare-- surely she should understand close supervision of little kids better than many parents, right?

This woman is not so stupid she didn't know she was at a zoo with potentially dangerous animals in enclosures with barriers. Her child wanted to breach the barriers, and told her so. Then she diverted her attention away from him (instead of watching him even more closely), and he did exactly that. That's not the fault of the zoo for not having armed guards patrolling the barriers to keep active children from sneaking in. That's a lapse in adult supervision and attention to the child. IMO. She failed, not the zoo. IMO. 35 million people did NOT breach the gorilla barriers. But this child did, intentionally. It wasn't an accident. He didn't fall in from the public sidewalk. He was not being watched and supervised closely enough. If an adult had been continuously interacting with him, or holding his hand, admiring the gorillas, he never would have had the CHANCE to crawl thru the bushes and the barriers. He needed continuous supervision during that experience, and he didn't get it from any adult. And we're all glad and relieved he lived thru the experience-- heck, his mom joked about it.

She's very, very lucky her child is ok.

BBM-red. Exactly!!!
 
Those charges are totally ridiculous. What the hell do they think the parents should have done? Handcuffed the kid to the bed while they slept, maybe? That would probably be considered child abuse. This country is getting to the point where anybody can be thrown in jail, for any reason. No wonder we have the largest prison population in the world. :facepalm:

Not really. There is a history of neglect in the home, including a misdemeanor charge just one week ago.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-drowned-parents-charged-Dearborn-3-June-2016
 
I knew there would be no charges on the mother. If she took him to the zoo, left him there, and went somewhere else, then maybe (maybe) we would have seen the charges. But she was there at the exhibit. So I knew she wasn't going to be charged. Unfortunately no one is going to pay for what happened to Harambe.
 
I knew there would be no charges on the mother. If she took him to the zoo, left him there, and went somewhere else, then maybe (maybe) we would have seen the charges. But she was there at the exhibit. So I knew she wasn't going to be charged. Unfortunately no one is going to pay for what happened to Harambe.

Things happen. An unfortunate set of circumstances. Why does anyone have to pay? Any of us who are parents can think of times where we are lucky nothing happened to our children.They are unpredictable. It just takes a second and they do somethinf while you look down to tie your other child's shoe. Or you wipe a nose. Etc etc etc
 
I knew there would be no charges on the mother. If she took him to the zoo, left him there, and went somewhere else, then maybe (maybe) we would have seen the charges. But she was there at the exhibit. So I knew she wasn't going to be charged. Unfortunately no one is going to pay for what happened to Harambe.

Why does anyone have to pay?

I wonder how much money has come into the zoo since Harambe's death. I have a feeling donations went way up.
 
Why does anyone have to pay?

I wonder how much money has come into the zoo since Harambe's death. I have a feeling donations went way up.

So money is the answer to everything? And here I thought it was a root of all evil. An endangered animal is dead. Money isn't going to replace him.
 
I knew there would be no charges on the mother. If she took him to the zoo, left him there, and went somewhere else, then maybe (maybe) we would have seen the charges. But she was there at the exhibit. So I knew she wasn't going to be charged. Unfortunately no one is going to pay for what happened to Harambe.

Why does anyone have to pay?

I wonder how much money has come into the zoo since Harambe's death. I have a feeling donations went way up.

So money is the answer to everything? And here I thought it was a root of all evil. An endangered animal is dead. Money isn't going to replace him.

Oh for Pete's sake. So contrary. To what end exactly? Pay with money, pay with "justice," nothing's bringing him back from the dead, so what were you referring to in the first place?
 
Why does anyone have to pay?

I wonder how much money has come into the zoo since Harambe's death. I have a feeling donations went way up.


Just like celebrity humans, elvis presley, kurt cobain, bob marley, all worth more dead then alive. So sad that it takes a silverback's death to get the public's attention to the zoo's financial need's.
 
Should a person in this situation be convicted of neglect just for not having physical control of their child at all times?

For example, if the child was standing right next to her and she was holding his hand, then her phone rings so for literally one second she lets go of her childs hand and he bolts and ends up getting through the fence - is that neglect?
 
Should a person in this situation be convicted of neglect just for not having physical control of their child at all times?

For example, if the child was standing right next to her and she was holding his hand, then her phone rings so for literally one second she lets go of her childs hand and he bolts and ends up getting through the fence - is that neglect?

Apparently a half a million Americans think it is, but the zoo that refuses to spend money on a barrier to keep a child from falling into the gorilla pit, is not negligent at all.:rolleyes:
 
Parenting Is Now Officially Impossible*

It’s impossible to be a parent in 2016. Living under a viral microscope of social media has all but extinguished any hope parents ever had.

When a child gets lost or hurt, it seems we have forgotten the anguish and intense anxiety the parents go through. It’s as if parents are two-dimensional paper cutouts, either good or bad. Emotional strife has no room on the Internet when blame can be invoked. And that blame can act as a balm, spreading over the masses in a comforting swatch of “this would never happen to me.”

Much more at the link and worth the read.

*Not the Onion!
 
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