Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia - #2

[Bartholemeus]

I was saying that I believe her boyfriend knew MM, not that he was a POI. Yes and The guy at Drocs wake who's initials are GL also was the one to like drocs pic of his right foot and the swamp after an altercation with who we believe is TT a POI named by the police.Also after Drocs' picture of his right foot going up, we have a new member called myleftfoot. Telling.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't believe TT has been named as a POI by police. Droc claimed TT was interviewed. He probably was. I suspect he is now a priority POI. But let's stick to the facts.

 

[crabstick]

How do you know they dumped the bodies in that position the same night? Bodies weren't discovered for months.
One officer stated there was salt water present. They could have been on a boat for days.
These bodies were ripped from the car, rambled down to position, then left. As the bricklayer said, the taxi nearly collided with him. It was dirty. The taxi may have made a quick three point turn on the road, or driven further down, into sand dunes to a boat?

Pipidinny was only one way in, one way out at the time?

Their position was carefully planned. The whole murder was planned over a long period of time.

I don't why people ask why murders aren't solved and keep calling police corrupt. Police aren't incompetent. There is pages and pages of info on why murders are now harder to solve. These people had planned this premeditated murder with intimate planning and knowledge to avoid detection.
The cops have been going through DNA and questioning people till now from the nights girls went missing meticulously so when they take this to court, people go to gaol.
The cops must shake their head and laugh. You have to grasp how many officers ere involved. Rolling teams.

The victims were stalked for their names via taxi communications and possibly tow truck, well both actually. That would have made it much easier. So would have putting them on a boat removing them from sight. These victims weren't dumped same night, although I haven't check whether Ciara has been.

I don't why people are asking why it may have stopped. You would be an idiot to rob a bank these days. Why does anyone think it stopped.

The cops are collecting DNA off people there that night. They will then work their way out with the DNA. If you lived in this town. They will find you.

Luck favours the brave huh. What's brave about killing and disposing of a young girl? I'd consider driving with a dead body more Psychotic than brave. Shakes head.....

 

[Sutton]

I struggle to believe SS wasn't well hidden. I think he changed his disposal method...

7. He may have buried her in his back yard and then seen a media article about another crime where a body was found on the killer's premises years later, and even though there was no DNA the killers fate was sealed. This may have prompted him to dump the bodies where it couldn't be connected to him geographically...

As snipped within the following reply.

Very specific for a theory Barth.

Brightgirl--I don't see where anyone has welcomed you to WS yet, but welcome!

You may or may not know that this thread is on its last chance. Past issues with cryptic posts and personal attacks have shut this thread down many times. The mod decided to reactivate the thread one last time.

What does your post mean? This is a public forum and readers with a reasonable understanding of the case should be able to understand all posts.

I posted the originally question asking why SS was never found. The reply was detailed, gave possible options that might have influenced disposal of her body, and clearly stated they were the poster's own opinion.

I am not a moderator, and but would like to keep this thread alive. Please post normally and I hope you have some theories on the case.

 

[Sutton]

Luck favours the brave huh. What's brave about killing and disposing of a young girl? I'd consider driving with a dead body more Psychotic than brave. Shakes head.....

Bravery is not the same as heroism. Murder and disposal of the body might require bravery on the part of the killer. They definitely require evil, and sickness! Unfortunately psychos are sometimes brave.

 

[MyLeftFoot]

I think the police have a lot more information, so for the most part people may think they know, but way off.

Evidence from the crime scenes may suggest he polishes his car a lot, or his boat. Plenty of chemicals discovered.Both dump sites are in a locale that have proximity for the capacity to leave from Claremont in a yacht (yacht club 500 metres away) unchecked or seen by authorities, even in a hot situation with all the cops around, then head North or South in a yacht to a vehicle liaison at marina in the night, or beach to place the bodies then back to the yacht; the vehicle only has one person when heading back to vehicle stowage, wherever that maybe. Not in Claremont? The spatial locations of the bodies appear deliberate, and it may be on a nautical map.

There is so much the general public don't know.

Someone said Sarah lived on Mill Point road. There is a Stirling st off Mill Point road. Sarah went missing from cnr Stirling hwy and Stirling st. Cutlerwent missing from Mill. Exact home address of where Sarah lived would be useful, but shall remain private for obvious reasons, and that's fair enough.

Having access to all the data would mean it could be mapped with relationships. The police already have this.

Questions like, did Sarah attend primary school at St Columba South Perth? Things we will never know...

There is a lot of disinformation that has been posted, so its hard to know what is 'fact'

Question for you Crabstick....What makes you say that plenty of chemicals were discovered. My source says that isn't the case!

 

[crabstick]

The chemicals will be found in this forum, or they are in referenced in print media about the case. ie. A book. The particular drug is mentioned in this forum. The chemical has a plethora of uses. Its actually illegal in Australia.

There is a very real possibility that drinks were spiked. There was a spate of drink spiking at the time.

Early in the case, police released some statements. There is a lot of info on the ground in the public that is not with the police, some of it rumour, or the police haven't released that info to the general public. I'm of the era, so a lot of people around my age have a lot of info because they visited the area often.
There was a lot of people from outer suburbs that visited the 'night hot spot'. Don't let anyone tell you different. Plenty of people around me have been questioned. Some of them were in the hotel, some standing next to the victims without knowing it. Some were there, and plenty DNA tested. Police have been questioning people there right up till now. They are still gathering evidence, and there is more than one video in that town. I haven't spoken to many people at all but the limited discussion I have had has been with people that were there.

(modsnip)

This case has spatial connotations. Its been said to me without asking.

We are talking about a serial killer. Some conversation is going to sound weird.

I was here on my lonesome until a bucket load of people were banned from other website forums.

Billy Whizz said Sarah was abducted from 347 Stirling Hwy and Stirling rd, opposite corner?; the same angle the bodies lie, exactly 347 km from Southern cross, the Pantone colour, 347, for St Patrick Green, the day Ciara was abducted?

I just checked. The angle to Southern Cross is 77.15 degrees, exactly 90 degrees to 347 degrees the discovered victims lie; and the 347 vector passes through the Cottesloe hotel. This may explain why officers questioned Bradley Murdoch.

Question for you Crabstick....What makes you say that plenty of chemicals were discovered. My source says that isn't the case!

 

[Sutton]

The chemicals will be found in this forum, or they are in referenced in print media about the case. ie. A book. The particular drug is mentioned in this forum. The chemical has a plethora of uses. Its actually illegal in Australia.

There is a very real possibility that drinks were spiked. There was a spate of drink spiking at the time.

Early in the case, police released some statements. There is a lot of info on the ground in the public that is not with the police, some of it rumour, or the police haven't released that info to the general public. I'm of the era, so a lot of people around my age have a lot of info because they visited the area often.
There was a lot of people from outer suburbs that visited the 'night hot spot'. Don't let anyone tell you different. Plenty of people around me have been questioned. Some of them were in the hotel, some standing next to the victims without knowing it. Some were there, and plenty DNA tested. Police have been questioning people there right up till now. They are still gathering evidence, and there is more than one video in that town. I haven't spoken to many people at all but the limited discussion I have had has been with people that were there.

Some of the people creating disinformation and bulking up this thread, are not from here, so I don't know why they talking so much garble.

This case has spatial connotations. Its been said to me without asking.

We are talking about a serial killer. Some conversation is going to sound weird.

I was here on my lonesome until a bucket load of people were banned from other website forums.

Billy Whizz said Sarah was abducted from 347 Stirling Hwy and Stirling rd, opposite corner?; the same angle the bodies lie, exactly 347 km from Southern cross, the Pantone colour, 347, for St Patrick Green, the day Ciara was abducted?

I just checked. The angle to Southern Cross is 77.15 degrees, exactly 90 degrees to 347 degrees the discovered victims lie; and the 347 vector passes through the Cottesloe hotel. This may explain why officers questioned Bradley Murdoch.

Please cite your exact source for the chemical comment. This forum is not a source. Neither is "a book." Please cite the source or retract the comment. Thanks.

 

[Sutton]

Question for you Crabstick....What makes you say that plenty of chemicals were discovered. My source says that isn't the case!

I'm guessing your source isn't MSM, and don't want you to spread any rumors, but where do you think the car washing theory came from if there were no chemicals to indicate such?

I have no opinion on the presence or absence of any chemicals...yet. According to your conversations with your "source"/friend can you post a possible theory on the disposals or perpetrator(s)? You've made some good posts, but I don't know if I've seen any of your theories yet. Are you holding out on us? ;-)

Please no veiled accusations--those are really confusing for me to follow.

 

[Brightgirl]

As snipped within the following reply.Brightgirl--I don't see where anyone has welcomed you to WS yet, but welcome!You may or may not know that this thread is on its last chance. Past issues with cryptic posts and personal attacks have shut this thread down many times. The mod decided to reactivate the thread one last time. What does your post mean? This is a public forum and readers with a reasonable understanding of the case should be able to understand all posts. I posted the originally question asking why SS was never found. The reply was detailed, gave possible options that might have influenced disposal of her body, and clearly stated they were the poster's own opinion. I am not a moderator, and but would like to keep this thread alive. Please post normally and I hope you have some theories on the case.

Hi and thanks for the welcome. My statement of Barth's theory being very specific means exactly that, and is my own opinion. I found it a very specific theory. That is all. <modsnip>

 

[Brightgirl]

Question for you Crabstick....What makes you say that plenty of chemicals were discovered. My source says that isn't the case!

I don't know about a boat/Yacht being used, although it wouldn't surprise me in one of the cases. But the police themselves said they thought the killer washed his car onsite, plenty of references to it on WS and other sites and Deb Marshalls book. So I would say they have found cleaning chemicals onsite.

 

[MyLeftFoot]

I'm guessing your source isn't MSM, and don't want you to spread any rumors, but where do you think the car washing theory came from if there were no chemicals to indicate such?

I have no opinion on the presence or absence of any chemicals...yet. According to your conversations with your "source"/friend can you post a possible theory on the disposals or perpetrator(s)? You've made some good posts, but I don't know if I've seen any of your theories yet. Are you holding out on us? ;-)

Please no veiled accusations--those are really confusing for me to follow.

Well that little warning may need to apply to others but I am not into rumours. Neither am I into accusations, veiled or not.

My source is purely professional. not a friend. I can tell you it came straight from the horses mouth but that still doesn't make it rock solid for me...it only tips the scale towards no chemicals of significance.
I can only guess the car washing theory is based on general SK behaviours and not because of chemicals found.

 

[Sutton]

Hi and thanks for the welcome. My statement of Barth's theory being very specific means exactly that, and is my own opinion. I found it a very specific theory. That is all. <modsnip>

Okay, just a bit odd. I was hoping someone would say, that theory doesn't make sense because the killer wasn't on a schedule, he could have ________. Or explained why any of the reasons weren't credible. Or added more reasons to the possibilities.

<modsnip> But I see what you mean. I guess this a Suttony reply, bc I am always asking posters to explain.

I like Bartholemeus's replies because I understand them!! I don't necessarily agree with them. I try to thank every reply I find helpful when I am following a thread. I do it as an appreciation that someone cares about the victims. I try to support lots of views, because i don't want to have tunnel vision.

I miss some posts bc I don't come for two days and there are a bunch of posts to catch up with.

Crabstick and I had some posts removed last night (three, to my knowledge). If there were others, I don't know about them. I'm not sure if I can post that here, but I think it's okay when it's that general.

I think we can discuss MM. We just can't be accusatory in tone or list names or ** (whatever that is, it means nothing to most of us) or say MM is the moderator or something. I'm sure you can say, "I believe MM is a man who originally met JR here, and is now working for the fire dept. I believe this because _______."
And then list clear supporting facts. No names or accusations.

 

[Sutton]

I would ask you then Sutton, to not post anything without citing your exact source for the comment. I thought this was about sleuthing and coming up with theories. I didn't realise we were under oath and in a court of law. LOL. Not aloud to post a theory without Citing exact sources. <modsnip>

All sources must be cited, per T.O.S. Common knowledge facts or things that have been cited many times (like MM was caught on CCTV) don't have to be cited each time.

You can say, 'this is a possibility' or 'some people thought' or 'it's my opinion' but you can't post it as fact.

I always try to list my source. If I missed something, please ask and I'll go back and find it.

You aren't under oath, and you can't be prosecuted. But the T.O.S. is a contract, so I guess any of us could lose posting privileges.

Likely, the thread will get shut down permanently.

I'm not a moderator, but this is pretty well known. You should contact a mod though if you don't want to post your MSM source or don't want to retract your statement. The moderator for this thread is Bessie.

 

[bessie]

ADMIN NOTE: Questions about TOS always should be addressed in a private message to an administrator or moderator. Do not post assumptions.

If your purpose here is to discuss other members, please don't waste your time.

Also, basic rule of thumb on WS: If you cannot link it, you cannot post it, nor post about it.

Theories and speculation should be based on "fact". And, statements of "fact" should be backed up with a link to an acceptable source.


Rules: Etiquette and Information

 

[Sutton]

Well that little warning may need to apply to others but I am not into rumours. Neither am I into accusations, veiled or not.

My source is purely professional. not a friend. I can tell you it came straight from the horses mouth but that still doesn't make it rock solid for me...it only tips the scale towards no chemicals of significance.
I can only guess the car washing theory is based on general SK behaviours and not because of chemicals found.

If didn't mean that as a warning. I was asking you to word your reply so it remained within T.O.S. and didn't get deleted.

Who is the horse?

I am not trying to regulate every post. I am trying to prevent the thread being permanently locked.

For crying out loud, don't y'all know how to post within T.O.S., with manners and still get your point across? Just say,

"I don't believe there were chemicals involved. Purely rumor, but the actual horse told me there were no chemicals involved when I fed her a fistful of oats. The horse is the secondary inspector. I tend to believe her, but it's not been officially released. Why are you convinced chemicals were present?"

That makes sense about the car wash idea if LE was thinking the CSK had to use his car for work and part of the assault/disposal likely took place in the car. Or maybe he is profiled to be meticulous? Or maybe they have a few girls who were potential victims (but escaped unharmed) who all mentioned an odd guy with a fresh ride? MOO.

 

[MyLeftFoot]

If didn't mean that as a warning. I was asking you to word your reply so it remained within T.O.S. and didn't get deleted.

Who is the horse?

I am not trying to regulate every post. I am trying to prevent the thread being permanently locked.

For crying out loud, don't y'all know how to post within T.O.S., with manners and still get your point across? Just say,

"I don't believe there were chemicals involved. Purely rumor, but the actual horse told me there were no chemicals involved when I fed her a fistful of oats. The horse is the secondary inspector. I tend to believe her, but it's not been officially released. Why are you convinced chemicals were present?"

That makes sense about the car wash idea if LE was thinking the CSK had to use his car for work and part of the assault/disposal likely took place in the car. Or maybe he is profiled to be meticulous? Or maybe they have a few girls who were potential victims (but escaped unharmed) who all mentioned an odd guy with a fresh ride? MOO.

"Straight from the horse's mouth" is an expression meaning...from the originating source...in the instance from LE. I hope that clarifies things for you.

 

[Sutton]

According to SR, ...the police should be looking for a fellow passenger, a man who had shared the taxi with Ms Spiers. Mr Ross said the man did not appear to know her.

SR goes on to say he dropped SS and the man off at the Windsor hotel, where the man pushed SS out of the cab and paid the fare.

This happened the night before SS went missing. Has this been publicly addressed or dismissed by LE?

http://www.australianmissingpersonsregister.com/Spiers.htm

 

[Bartholemeus]

According to SR, ...the police should be looking for a fellow passenger, a man who had shared the taxi with Ms Spiers. Mr Ross said the man did not appear to know her.

SR goes on to say he dropped SS and the man off at the Windsor hotel, where the man pushed SS out of the cab and paid the fare.

This happened the night before SS went missing. Has this been publicly addressed or dismissed by LE?

http://www.australianmissingpersonsregister.com/Spiers.htm

There seems to be no evidence that this happened. SR said he first dropped a women in Dalkeith who shared the taxi, before heading onto South Perth. That women who allegedly shared the taxi has never turned up. I believe the guy allegedly with SS has never been identified either.

The general consensus is that this never happened and that SR made it up for whatever reason.

 

[Bartholemeus]

The main suspects

LW

Suss
1. Stalked women for years
2. Domineering mother
3. Fits the profile

Flaw in theory
1. No forensic evidence turned up after extensive searching
2. How did this guy convince women to get in his car?

SR

Suss
1. Lied about having SS in his car the day before
2. Has a taxi

Flaw in theory
1. Not considered intelligent enough to withstand police interrogation
2. Not considered intelligent enough carry out these crimes

PW

Suss
1. Mates with SR. PW is educated, professional, successful, rich and lives in moneyed Claremont. Old mate Stevo tasers cats and pisses in eskies.

Flaw in theory
2. He has an alibi for one of the nights. Would have had to have SR deliver at least one of the girls. We can pretty much rule out PW as a solo.

PW/SR Combo

Suss
1. They're at different ends of the intelligence scale. Why are they mates? Yes, they met because because PW is a human rights lawyer and represented SR. But why keep in contact? Maybe because PW wanted to get his hands on SR's house at a discounted rate?
2. Alone, either man can't do the crime. Together, they have everything they need.

Flaw in theory
1. SR was never caught out in lies after thorough police interrogation.
2. The reason why they're mates is explanable


Judoman

Suss
1. Knew 2 of the girls and went to uni with the 3rd. Could have known all 3.
2. Is a POI. He did something that put himself on the radar. Maybe he was reported by many women for trying to give them lifts?
3. Allegedly failed polygraph
4. Suits the profile
5. Had his own house less that 5 minutes away
6. Judo black belt. Could have subdued the girls easily

Flaw in theory
1. If he knew all 3 girls he must have done a lot of km's and waiting until 3 he knew were vulnerable and out in the open.

TT

Suss

1. Just a very suss bloke all round. Creepy as **it.
2. Droc made some pretty serious allegations about him. Why would Droc do this if there was no truth to it?
3. Had a taxi. Was in Claremont the night of CG abduction
4. He is now probably a POI

Flaw in theory
1. There are flaws in Droc's claims. Doesn't mean there is no truth to it, just means if Droc has made those incorrect assumptions then how many more did he make?
2. Plice claim they looked at him thoroughly and are/were sure it's not him.

Mark Dixie

Suss

1. Worked locally (unconfirmed of his whereabouts at the time of all 3 murders)
2. Rampant sex fiend
3. Convicted sex attacker/murderer

Flaw in theory

1. His MO in all his sex crimes is frenzied and impulsive. CSK is planned and measured

Romald Zack

Suss
1. Knew CG
2. Was having trouble getting over a relationship. Was sectioned to Graylands Mental Hospital
3. Was murdered or suicided so could explained the stopping of the killings

Flaw in theory
1. There is no real evidence linking him to the crimes

Many Leucus

Suss
1. Had access to a taxi
2. Has a history of violent crimes against women

Flaw in theory
1. Police say they investigated him and ruled him out
2. Profile doesn't match. The CSK is more likely to be controlled and would not have a history of domestic violence. Sex crimes maybe, but domestic violence, no.

 

[billywhizz]

The main suspects

LW

SR


PW

PW/SR Combo

Judoman

TT

Mark Dixie

Romald Zack


Many Leucus

Most of them have provided DNA. Latest article on CSK says they are doing familial DNA testing, which means they have DNA, but haven't found the right person who matches.

This doesn't mean none of the above aren't involved, but they may have a limited role such as delivery driver etc.

Interesting you think RZak was murdered/suicided. I think he was too. So do most, except for the coroner.

http://www.***********/r/Unresolved...de_of_romuald_zak_parents_believe_he/.compact