Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia - #3

[Sutton]

The PW raid occurred because someone had an axe to grind with him & nominated him due to his, lets just say behaviour not in line with his job & position where he was employed.

That might be true, but PW has repeatedly inserted himself into the case. That, paired with his creepy behaviors, makes him a difficult suspect to dismiss.

Didn't police say they found items when searching the Irwin Rd property (where SR lives) that lead them to search PW's Richardson Rd property? (I am going off memory here, could be wrong.)

 

[Parkie]

Can you provide a source which confirms they have been eliminated. As of May 2015, PW was still not eliminated, so it must've been recent.

No I can`t sorry, but I believe in what I`m told. Sutton has more on it above from news sources, etc.

 

[Sutton]

Parkie

The comments by Street Puffters! are still on YouTube (I thought you'd previously said they were removed, once again, going off memory). I Googled
"Street Puffters!"
and he or she is quite the commenter.

Do you think that person is the CSK? Because the comments are so oddball, I have a hard time seeing that person putting together an abduction.

Or did you only mean that Puffters made a comment similar to one made by the Claremont Ghost?

 

[Fortune Cookie]

Street Puffters! is not the CSK.... too young.

 

[papertrail]

• Makes 1[SUP]st[/SUP] appearance when he appears at Conti exit at S 00.02.28 or 38 secs of 1.08 on Flect youtube copy. He 1[SUP]st[/SUP] looks south. Note: it is clearly evident the sleeve on his left arm is rolled to just near elbow.
• S 00.02.30 or 40secs on 1.80 Flect youtube copy; he then looks directly north. Note: it is clearly evident the sleeve on his right arm is rolled to just near elbow.

• S 00.02.30 he may be holding an item in his right hand.
• S 00.02.31 back inside Conti.
• S 00.02.31 to S 00.02.34 or 40 to 44 secs in Flect youtube copy man moves from pole 1 towards Conti door and is met by a guy dressed in dark clothes exiting the Conti. They move off.
• 00.02.36 ice machine
• 00.02.52 or 45 to 46 secs of 1.08 Flect youtube copy; inside Conti 38 sec guy with 2 others and phone in left hand.
• N 00.02.5? last frame of 46secs of 1.08 Flect youtube copy shows JR at pole 3.
• N 00.03.00? or 47 secs Flect youtube copy shows Conti guy / 38 sec guy has exited Conti.
• N 00.03.00? or 59 secs Flect youtube copy shows Conti guy / 38 sec guy hailing taxi with 2 others, light flash from headlights, is he holding item in left hand, sleeves are rolled.
• Note: re the above 3 timestamps I cannot make out the last digit.
• From this 59 secs mark the inside conti group of 3 appear to move closer to JR, she changes her stance to between pole 3 and kerb. At the S 00.03.00? or 1min 01sec mark Flect copy, JR moves.
• S 00.03.51 or 1 min 04 sec mark Flect copy the 2 others with inside conti / 39 sec guy can be seen moving around
• On the hayleyjane1985 youtube copy at N 00.03.58 JR is still standing at pole 3 and the inside conti / 38 sec guy and 2 others are not in view.

Note: the ‘S’ or ‘N’ before timestamp indicates footage captured via cctv looking south or north.

See further timestamp information being posted today for further information on NEW discovery.

Re my reference to pole 1, pole 2 and pole 3. These pole references refer to the sequence they appear on the cctv footage. Pole 1 is south of the Conti entrance / exit door and is where JR and 2 friends (as seen on cctv footage) gathered prior to walking to Club Bayview. Pole 2 is the pole JR 1[SUP]st[/SUP] stood at when her friends were departing in the taxi (as seen in cctv footage and CIA re-enactment segment). Pole 3 is the final pole that JR stood at.

I have made a series of screen shots for the timestamps mentioned above. Let me know if you would like me to post them.

 

[silver tongue]

Maybe the serial rapist 'signature' is to take his victim to the tombstone in the cemetery of someone he knows, or is familiar with and either rapes, or kills his victims there. I wonder if they ever looked into exactly where the Karrakatta girl was raped and checked the tombstones around that area for links?

yes this did cross my mind also .maybe his parents sexually or mentally abused him and are buried in the karrakatta cemetry and this whole mess is a result of him taking[ in his sick mind] revenge against them; like you said id be going through every single head stone that fits in with the csk time line

 

[papertrail]

yes this did cross my mind also .maybe his parents sexually or mentally abused him and are buried in the karrakatta cemetry and this whole mess is a result of him taking[ in his sick mind] revenge against them; like you said id be going through every single head stone that fits in with the csk time line

this link will take you to the Metropolitan Cemetery Board's online site; once there you will find a series of map links. The description given by Bret Christian (from memory) is that the Rowe Park girl was "taken deep into the cemetery" and it was also mentioned that she fled to Monash Avenue which is included in the MCB's map. Could she have been taken to the pale pink or pale yellow section perhaps ? The 1st link when you open up the below link contains a complete map with all detail.

Perhaps this girl was not taken to the tombstone areas at all; she could have been taken to the Hollywood Reserve section which is bushland and located between the pale pink and pale yellow sections and very close to Monash Avenue.

http://www.mcb.wa.gov.au/OurCemeteries/Karrakatta/Map.aspx

 

[silver tongue]

this link will take you to the Metropolitan Cemetery Board's online site; once there you will find a series of map links. The description given by Bret Christian (from memory) is that the Rowe Park girl was "taken deep into the cemetery" and it was also mentioned that she fled to Monash Avenue which is included in the MCB's map. Could she have been taken to the pale pink or pale yellow section perhaps ? The 1st link when you open up the below link contains a complete map with all detail.

Perhaps this girl was not taken to the tombstone areas at all; she could have been taken to the Hollywood Reserve section which is bushland and located between the pale pink and pale yellow sections and very close to Monash Avenue.

http://www.mcb.wa.gov.au/OurCemeteries/Karrakatta/Map.aspx

thanks for that paper trail
yes he very well could of headed to the bush land in the cemetery but why if he just wanted to rape take the risk of being spotted by security or any body else . he could of just raped her in his vehicle, at the beach in the sand dunes after dark in perth in the 90s beaches were deserted . some body said on this thread the lady who found one of the missing girls quote whoever did this was one sick f.... which indicates to me some body with a grudge against women i would be intrested to know what the karrakatta victim looked like did she resemble the other 3 girls from claremont maybe he is targeting acertiain look that reminded him of somebody who once wronged him in what way one can only guess ithink the cemetry is part of his game plan

 

[papertrail]

Part 1

Main footage used = hayleyjane1985 youtube copy 54.02 minutes.

• 1[SUP]st[/SUP] timestamp (6 numerals) is taken from above youtube footage and is not the cctv timestamp
• 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] timestamp is CCTV minute / seconds on CIA doc
• Letter ‘S’ or ‘N’ prior to 1[SUP]st[/SUP] timestamp signifies cctv camera facing north or south.

See 1[SUP]st[/SUP] attachment for notated cctv image "JR and friends exiting Conti".

S 23.41.04. 36.45 to 36.49 JR and 2 females exit Conti; JR clutching dark jacket between both arms and body. One female on Jane’s left moves towards a bouncer who is talking to a female in dark jacket, long hair; is this a friend of JR’s now referred to as G2 (girl 2). Note: she does not appear to exit the Conti with JR and 2 others ?

Woman on left of JR (JR exited with) wearing short skirt, short sleeved t-shirt now referred to as G1. Note: G1 and G2 not shown to group with JR near pole and F1 and F2 on CCTV CIA footage (see attachment 3 "JR and 2 friends at pole 1 with unknown man).

2[SUP]nd[/SUP] female to exit with JR wearing dark coloured waistcoat and belted pants; walks ahead of JR now referred to as F2 (friend 2 see attachment 1).

At the time JR and 2 friends exit, a 3[SUP]rd[/SUP] female who I believe may be Lynda appears to have been waiting outside and walks into frame from direction MM came from; wearing long sleeved shirt and light coloured high-waisted pants and now referred to as F1 (see attachment 1).

Note: as Lynda walks towards JR and friends, there appears to be some sort of discussion and JR ‘hangs back’.

Note: Lynda stated on CIA doc that they all felt ‘bored’ that is why they tried Club Bayview. She was waiting outside for Jane and friends to join her. Was Lynda the one that was bored?

S 23.41.10. Person exits (girl?) wearing jacket with long sleeves carrying handbag in left hand. Veers right (south). No apparent consequence. May have been joined by a man and they walk south together. Man looks in direction of JR and friends at pole 1.


A man M2 that exits immediately after JR moves past her left side at this time. He continues on and walks towards Bayview Tce; at this time JR flings her head back and looks towards him. Could this be MM1 detailed further below; he has similar hairstyle ?

S 34.41.57. JR and 2 friends (F1 and F2) gravitate to pole situated south of exit door.; this pole will now be referred to as Pole 1. Man standing / leaning on southern side of pole. He appears to be quite tall and bulky? Who is he; now referred to as M1 (not to be confused with MM1 detailed below) see attachment 3?

Lynda F1 (woman has short hair like Lynda in CIA doc) and waist-coated woman F2 stand closer to this man. Jane stands between F1 and F2 although stands back and then moves forward; did she know him or was she introduced at this time and then felt comfortable to move forward ?

If this was a 1[SUP]st[/SUP] time intro, could this be the martial arts expert who worked with SS that had met Jane once ? At this time Jane is facing north; she is holding dark jacket clutched between her left arm and body.

S & N 23.41.58. CIA prepared re-enactment segment of JR and friends walking to and returning from Club Bayview inserted into cctv footage. Is the time between timestamps on cctv footage where re-enactment is inserted the actual time JR and friends walked to and from the club ?

Note: Re-enactment shows JR and 3 friends therefore who was the extra female friend; could this be either G1 or G2 (see attachment 1 or 3) that were talking with bouncer when JR and F2 and G1 exited? G2 appears to have been with bouncer before JR exited and stayed with bouncer until later – see detail further below.

SPECIAL NOTE: SEE 52.34 OF 54.02 CIA RE-ENACTMENT SHOWS JANE LOCATED AT A DIFFERENT POLE WHILST WAVING GOODBYE TO HER FRIENDS IN TAXI; THIS POLE WILL BE REFERRED TO AS POLE 2. IT IS A POLE NORTH OF THE FINAL POLE WHICH WILL BE REFERRED TO AS POLE 3.

POSITIONED BETWEEN POLE 2 AND 3 THERE WAS A RUBBISH BIN IN 1996 SEE CCTV FOOTAGE 2[SUP]ND[/SUP] SNIP BELOW WHICH IS AT N 23.58.36.
See 4th attachment for CIA re-enactment segment showing JR at pole 2.

N 23.58.36. 37.39 of 54.02 (above). JR standing between Pole 2 and kerb. 2 bouncers wearing uniform and 1 (?) wearing light-coloured suit.

N 23 58.40 to 23.58.47. 37.54 of 54.02. JR adjacent to pole 2. now looking directly at Gugeri St direction moves out (approx 2 metres) onto Bayview Tce looking directly north to Gugeri St.

N 23.58.48. 37.54 of 54.02. M1 on south side of pole 1 not there. JR not in view

S 23.58.58. 37.55 of 54.02. M1 at pole 1 there but has moved north of pole; may be wearing jacket over darker coloured shirt, baggy trousers. JR not in view.

continue to part 2

 

[papertrail]

Part 2

Part 2

S 23.58.58. 37.56 of 54.02. Dark trouser man exits Conti alone. see attachment 5 (but it is attachment 1 in this post)


Looks in direction of JR and makes a bee line for what was to be her final location at pole 3.

Carrying item in lefthand rear pocket; is this a mobile phone?

High forehead, hair styled ½ over ear very similar to MM. Shirt sleeve rolled up. Carrying what turns out to be a jacket in right hand. WILL REFER TO THIS MAN AS ‘MM1’.

Could he be M2 (detailed in part 1) who later returned to (inside) Conti using another entry point; hairstyle very similar ?

As MM1 approaches pole 3 (JR not in view in first few frames and keep in mind this follows her moving out onto Bayview Tce and focused on Gugeri, captured on north facing cctv) she comes into view for the 1[SUP]st[/SUP] time at pole 3.

Does this mean that she had spotted MM1 from where she had been located at pole 2 and moved to pole 3 location; quite possibly.

There is an interaction with this man.

When he is closest to her, it appears he looks at his watch on his left wrist (see below for further detail re t-shirt).

JR moves closer to him and from this time she tracks him as he passes her and onto Bayview Terrace or north towards Gugeri; he is the only person she has reacted to in this way.

From this time, JR is positioned at pole 3 and intently focuses her attention towards Gugeri direction. I believe this is significant.

WATCH MM1 (frame by frame) as there are several instances when you get a good profile and front on view (although still blurry) of his face THERE IS INTERACTION BETWEEN MM1 (dark trouser man)? AND JR.

HE MAKES A VERY SIMILAR HAND GESTURE WITH HIS LEFT HAND TOWARDS HER AS ’MYSTERY MAN’ DID.

HE IS CARRYING A JACKET. SHIRT SLEEVES ARE ROLLED UP. LIGHT FLASH ON LEFT HAND; COULD THIS BE A RING MAYBE WITH A STONE?

PATTERN IN CENTRE OF T-SHIRT APPEARS TO BE CIRCULAR IN SHAPE; IS IT A SOCCER BALL, WORLD CUP GAMES WERE ON DURING 1996 ? See attachment 6 (2nd and 3rd attachments this post). I am hoping someone can get a clearer shot of the pattern !

This pattern becomes visible BUT ONLY IN ONE OF THE FINAL FRAMES (viewing his watch) BEFORE HE GOES OUT OF VIEW.

I have attached a zoomed in view attachment 2 and 3; it is blurry and I have ‘played’ with a graphics programme in an attempt to show the pattern. I BELIEVE HE IS WEARING A T-SHIRT UNDER AN OPEN SHIRT.

SHIRT COLLAR IS TURNED UP; COULD THIS SIGNIFY HE IS EUROPEAN OR SOUTH AMERICAN (I keep in mind the Chillean connection to rape of woman in Freo raised recently by ex policeman Dobson) WEARING SHIRT COLLAR IN THIS MANNER; NOT AN AUSSIE WAY AT ALL ?

Note: could a chillean accent be mistaken for a European accent – Spanish is the language of Chile ? I mention this at this point because of the witnesses who spoke about rogue taxi drivers described a ‘european’ accent.

APPEARS TO LOOK AT WATCH WHEN CLOSE TO JR. JR REACTS AND CHANGES HER STANCE, MOVES FORWARD TOWARDS HIM. JR APPEARS TO TRACK THIS GUY AS HE PASSES HER AND HE EITHER CROSSES BAYVIEW TCE OR WALKS ALONG ROAD. IS THIS WHO JR HAS BEEN WAITING FOR ?

DID THEY MEET WHEN SHE WAS INSIDE CONTI WITH HER GIRLFRIENDS ? WAS HE A PATRON OR STAFF MEMBER or a ‘taxi’ driver having some 'free' time?

Is it an ‘urban myth’ that POLICE STATED THEY HAD NAMES OF ALL PEOPLE INSIDE CONTI OR WAS IT THAT DETECTIVE STANBURY STATED IN ANSWER TO LEIBMANN’S QUESTION TO HIM REGARDING IDENTIFICATION OF PEOPLE ON FOOTPATH ON CCTV WHEN DISCUSSING A PARTICULAR SECTION OF CCTV FOOTAGE RELEVANT TO MM.

IF POLICE DO HAVE NAMES OF EVERYONE THERE THAT NIGHT (inside and out), THIS MEANS POLICE SHOULD KNOW WHO THIS GUY IS BUT HE HAS FLOWN UNDER THEIR RADAR BECAUSE THEY DON’T REALIZE HE IS POSSIBLY MM.

THIS ‘OTHER’ INTERACTION BETWEEN MM1 AND JR OCCURRED APPROX 2 MINUTES 43 SECONDS PRIOR TO MYSTERY MAN’S APPEARANCE ON CCTV.

GIVEN JR MOVED FROM POLE 2 TO POLE 3 AND STAYED AT THAT LOCATION AT THE TIME MM1 APPEARS AND THEREAFTER, I BELIEVE THIS IS SIGNIFICANT.

WAS THIS GUY THE DRIVER OF THE 4 DOOR HATCHBACK THAT DRIVES SOUTH ON BAYVIEW TCE AS JR IS CHECKING HER WATCH AFTER MM GOES OUT OF VIEW ? have you seen the footage of what appears to be MM walking north on the footpath after his interaction with JR ? attached in part 3.

DID MM1 GO NORTH TO COLLECT HIS VEHICLE AND BRING IT CLOSER?

DID HE GO BACK TO HIS VEHICLE AND DECIDE TO RETURN AS THE MAN WE KNOW AS MM ?

DID HE MESS UP HIS HAIR AND PUT ON HIS JACKET TO DELIBERATELY CHANGE HIS APPEARANCE FOR WHEN HE RETURNED?

I NOTE THAT THERE WAS (AND STILL IS) A CAR PARK LOCATED BEHIND THE NORTH EASTERN STRIP OF SHOPS BETWEEN BAYVIEW AND LEURA adjacent to post office.

WHERE WAS MM1 WALKING TO ? CAR PARK ON GUGERI OPPOSITE CONTI ? CAR PARK BETWEEN BAYVIEW AND LEURA ? OVER RAILWAY PEDESTRIAN FOOTBRIDGE TO CAR PARK NORTH OF RAILWAY STATION ?

HOW LONG WOULD IT TAKE TO WALK TO AND RETURN FROM ANY OF THESE CAR PARKS ?

I BELIEVE MM IS WEARING A JACKET WITH SHIRT UNDERNEATH AND T-SHIRT UNDER SHIRT. LOOK CLOSELY AT THE COLLAR AREA OF THE ENHANCED FRAME THAT ENZEDER and SUTTON WORKED ON. YOU CAN SEE THE OUTLINE OF WHAT MAY BE A ROLLED UP outer SHIRT SLEEVE AND YOU CAN SEE THAT MOST OF HIS LOWER HAIRLINE IS BETWEEN HIS SHIRT COLLAR AND NECK AND YOU CAN SEE THE COLLAR OF A JACKET. tried to attach notated photo can't get it to work so will attach in part 3.

PS sorry about the capitalization.

 

[silver tongue]

hadnt every body been accounted for except for mm!regarding mm1
yes i think that is mm and thats the best shot weve seen of him, one thing stands out is the receding hair ,hed probably be bald by now

 

[papertrail]

part 3. missing attachments from part 2.

attachment 1 this post. Is this MM walking north on footpath and north of JR after their encounter?

attachment 2 this post. notated zoomed enzeder or sutton enhanced footage of mm showing detail shirt collar, hair, rolled sleeves and end of jacket sleeve.

 

[papertrail]

hadnt every body been accounted for bar mm!

that is what I am trying to get at. Is it an urban myth that everyone inside and outside the conti except for mm had been identified. Where is this information because it is not detailed on the CIA doc. The only thing that refers to indentifying people is when Detective Stanbury answers the question posed to him by Leibmann that everyone in the particular footage they are viewing with MM on it and Stanbury says that everyone on the particular footage they are viewing at the time have been identified except for MM.

I think it is an urban myth that everyone, inside and outside were identified except for MM. Can someone please provide the proof if I am incorrect.

 

[papertrail]

thanks for that paper trail
yes he very well could of headed to the bush land in the cemetery but why if he just wanted to rape take the risk of being spotted by security or any body else . he could of just raped her in his vehicle, at the beach in the sand dunes after dark in perth in the 90s beaches were deserted . some body said on this thread the lady who found one of the missing girls quote whoever did this was one sick f.... which indicates to me some body with a grudge against women i would be intrested to know what the karrakatta victim looked like did she resemble the other 3 girls from claremont maybe he is targeting acertiain look that reminded him of somebody who once wronged him in what way one can only guess ithink the cemetry is part of his game plan

And I also find it very strange that given Kings Park is only a block from the cemetery why he did not use Kings Park. I then considered using the cemetery was a fear tactic to put his victim in absolute and total fear of her life, a control and dominating mechanism; that's what the choice of using the cemetery tells me. He let this victim go so she might have been compliant to what ever his 'instructions' were eg don't scream.

Interesting too is that Jane Rimmer's employer location (Nedlands Child Care Centre) was at 47 Carrington Street which is a street very close to the cemetery.

He may well have taken all victims to the cemetery.

 

[papertrail]

hadnt every body been accounted for except for mm!regarding m1
yes i think that is mm and thats the best shot weve seen of him, one thing stands out is the receding hair ,hed probably be balled by now

I am sure you mean 'bald' and that you mean MM1 who is the dark trousered guy that interacted with JR.

 

[silver tongue]

correct, time for a cup of tea

 

[silver tongue]

so it looks like we have a soccer fan about 35 ,european about 5;10 who likes night clubbing

 

[Sutton]

Papertrail

You've stunned everyone else into silence. I will comment soon.

 

[Sutton]

Here are some initial thoughts on Paper's post.

First, posters should go to the video and skip to 37:56 in YouTube time. Play the video in as slow motion as you can.

[video=youtu;nNNF1E3mg3c]http://youtu.be/nNNF1E3mg3c[/video]

This is the guy you want to watch (Papertrail refers to him as MM1):



I think he does interact with Jane.

1. Where does he go--does he stop and talk to Jane or does he keep walking?
2. Is he Mystery Man? I think it's possible.
3. Mystery Man wore dark pants and a shirt or a jacket with a wide, open collar. The man above, MM1, has the top buttons of his shirt undone, which makes his collar appear wider and more similar to Mystery Man.

Here is my 'issue' with this guy being Mystery Man: Jane looks surprised to see MM in the original footage. That is at about one minute past midnight. Why would she be so surprised to see someone she just saw 3 minutes earlier? Even if she thought he was going home for the night, I think her expression indicates "Wow, what are you going here?!"

What does everyone else think? Is MM the same guy as MM1?

 

[elastic]

And I also find it very strange that given Kings Park is only a block from the cemetery why he did not use Kings Park. I then considered using the cemetery was a fear tactic to put his victim in absolute and total fear of her life, a control and dominating mechanism; that's what the choice of using the cemetery tells me. He let this victim go so she might have been compliant to what ever his 'instructions' were eg don't scream.

Interesting too is that Jane Rimmer's employer location (Nedlands Child Care Centre) was at 47 Carrington Street which is a street very close to the cemetery.

He may well have taken all victims to the cemetery.

It is possible, but its probably more likely he knows the cemetery inside and out. He has been there for a long time during his upbringing, or has gotten to know it very well later on in life, so much so he is prepared to obviously rape his victims there knowing he would probably be somewhere familiar and unseen. I do wonder if there is a possibility a tombstone was nearby that reflected something that happened in his personal life, a family member, or a former girlfriend who had died and he may have obsessively gone to the cemetery getting to know the place like the back of his hand. That is all obviously speculation, but it seems more likely that the familiarity the place bought to him made him comfortable enough to carry out his sick acts. I think he may have raped and killed here on other occasions, probably all of the time he was doing these deeds. I doubt the Police in their early days would have bothered to investigate the place, or maybe check the Karrakatta link when an FBI Agent told them it was linked. If he had raped there previously then he may possible rape and kill there again. The investigation had no focus really until the 3rd (now 4th) known victim was killed so maybe it was then that our serial rapist chose another spot, or stopped completely knowing the Police are hot on his heels, or maybe he is now locked up after changing his MO and kill spot/tactics.