Closing arguments- thread #173

[kristen4654]

Good morning all! I know that Beth Karas tweeted it took JM 3 hours and 20 mins to deliver his CA. I know it took all day with breaks and whatnot, so I am sure Nurmi will do the same. I would love to see JM rebuttal today though. I think he still has a few slam dunks up his sleeve he is saving for last.

 

[aa9511]

The time to do this is during the trial. Not after. Even if she only had two, nothing changes. She told Brewer she was going to Arizona.

I LOVE how Juan suggested that Brewer was still infatuated with Jodi and thus basically what I got from that is he is MINIMIZING everything he knows about Jodi's involvement in all of this. I suspect this is b/c Juan knows Darryl got the DVD player from Jodi, and probably knows a lot more stuff.

 

[HarvestMoon]

You don't need to be nervous about that. Juan was simply saying that under either scenario, Arias committed felony murder because she a) brought the gun, which proves premeditation or, b) according to her own story, she stole the gun from Travis's house after she killed him, which means that she committed a murder in the course of committing another felony, which is also murder 1.

I love what he said about her being guilty of one of the crimes, because after stabbing him she would not be welcome in his home. He said something like no way, nope, would she be welcomed in his house after she stabbed me. I'd have to go back to get his exact brilliant wording, but his sarcasm again, was keenly brilliant.

 

[Shelby1]

Sorry I've been at work and finally got 2 days off. I'm unable to follow this case closely as work and sleuthing just don't mix well lol...

Could someone please tell me when closing arguments will resume today EST. I'd like to watch.

Thanks

They are supposed to start at 9:00 AZ time so that would be Noon your time :seeya:

But, they will probably be late 'cause they usually are.

 

[AZWatcher]

I know how you feel. I am very paranoid due to the CA trial, (and still in shock that witch walked). I have not been thinking she will walk, but am worried about the manslaughter charge which can carry as little as 7 years. Yesterday was the first time I allowed myself to have hope on the 1st degree charge. Juan was brilliant, He showed it was premedicated in my opinion.

ITA. I never saw that other verdict coming... It never even occurred to me. I felt pretty confident after yesterday on the Murder 1.

 

[momof7]

When Nurmi objected yesterday saying Juan was misrepresenting the testimony, Juan clarified his statement by saying, "would you be surprised if I told you THAT Walmart doesn't have ANY RECORDS of ANY gas cans being returned on THAT DAY? And she said, yes, it would surprise me, because I did! Juan did a great job on that question, and gave her no wiggle room!

Yes, I believe so as well. I also think the DT knew there was no wiggle room. They did NOT cross the witness from Walmart if I remember correctly. They left it out there as is. I also believe that this was the ONLY witness that did not get cross examined by the def IIRC.

The walmart thing is HUGE imho. Its more about the lie itself, after all this time, that shows to me that she premeditated this more than she is willing to admit. Add in DB saying at the end of May during a phone call she needed to borrow 2 gas cans since she was going on a roadtrip to Mesa...nope. There isn't anyway possible that I can believe the jury won't put those two things together to realize that the trip was not last minute because TA was guilting her, but because it was a planned trip. It doesn't matter anymore whether she planned to kill when she got there, the TRIP was planned.

K

 

[TXProfessional]

Sorry I've been at work and finally got 2 days off. I'm unable to follow this case closely as work and sleuthing just don't mix well lol...

Could someone please tell me when closing arguments will resume today EST. I'd like to watch.

Thanks

Peliman, Judge said 9 am AZ time, therefore I think that is 12 pm EST

 

[tss]

amber, I thought the same thing.

I also came across several posts by professionals in the Psychology field at a higher level than ALV and they mentioned that she, even them, are not allowed to offer Opinions, like a diagnosis thought re: TA that ALV made.


Plus she went so far, in reply to a Juror question, to claim that the Victim of the most DV was JA ...this one minute youtube

Alyce Laviolette Lies on Juror Question - one of the moments she sold a piece of her soul.

[video=youtube;d6P7RZbEyZY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6P7RZbEyZY[/video]

 

[Rosemary Pierce]

I know how you feel. I am very paranoid due to the CA trial, (and still in shock that witch walked). I have not been thinking she will walk, but am worried about the manslaughter charge which can carry as little as 7 years. Yesterday was the first time I allowed myself to have hope on the 1st degree charge. Juan was brilliant, He showed it was premedicated in my opinion.

BBM: Amen!

 

[gcharlie]

Is it just me or was anyone else confused by JM jumping from "she brought the gun" right into "she stole the gun from Travis" if there is anyone on the jury hunting for an excuse to acquit or convict of a lesser offense I am afraid they could use that. I am so nervous she is going to walk.

His point was regardless of the origin/ownership of the gun, the fact that it was used and not recovered calls for first degree murder because:
a) if she brought the gun with her, this is clear premeditation

or

b) if it was Travis's gun, she stole it from him, thereby committing felony murder.

 

[TotallyObsessed]

Sorry I've been at work and finally got 2 days off. I'm unable to follow this case closely as work and sleuthing just don't mix well lol...

Could someone please tell me when closing arguments will resume today EST. I'd like to watch.

Thanks

9:00 am AZ time - that's 11:00 CT (my time) so I'm not sure about EST - 12:00??

 

[aa9511]

The way Jodi goes about peaking at the crime scene and autopsy photos is how criminal profilers describe serial killers, mass killers, arsonists and all the other psychopathic killers behave.

These sick individuals will often visit their victims graves, keep tokens of the victim/murder or revisit the scene bc these acts give them a secondary rush of pleasure they felt when they were actually committing the murder.

This is the only reason Jodi peeks at those graphic photos and why her tears are not real, IMO.

Plus it make her happy to see that Travis suffered - the pictures are proof that he suffered, that's why she gets such joy from them. Yesterday when Juan put up the picture of the gunshot in the forehead (I think it was that pic), she was kind of out of it and didn't realize to put her act on for a minute, and I SAW HER STARING DIRECTLY AT THE PICTURE ON THE MONITOR. Just staring at it with NO TEARS/RED NOSE.

 

[MidwestMama]

Is it just me or was anyone else confused by JM jumping from "she brought the gun" right into "she stole the gun from Travis" if there is anyone on the jury hunting for an excuse to acquit or convict of a lesser offense I am afraid they could use that. I am so nervous she is going to walk.

Basically, JA screwed herself with the gun.
What Juan was pointing out was this:
IF you believe JA stole the gun from her grandpa and brought it with her to Mesa, that shows premeditation and she is guilty of FIRST DEGREE MURDER WITH PREMEDITATION.

IF you believe the gun was Travis', then she killed him with his gun and then took it from the house. Taking his gun adds the felony of burglary to the murder charge meaning she is guilty of FELONY FIRST DEGREE MURDER.

So either theory of the gun, she is guilty of FIRST DEGREE MURDER! Her lie about it being his gun has really messed her up because she is guilty of FDM under either theory.

Also, Juan made sure the jury understood that they don't all have to degree on which theory of FDM:
6 can vote guilty of FDM with premed, and 6 with Felony FDM;
or any combination. IF they all feel she is guilty of FDM, under EITHER theory, she is guilty of FDM.
I really feel this will be the final nail in the coffin that finds her guilty.
I can't believe any juror would not find her guilty of FDM under one or the other theory.

 

[Rosemary Pierce]

Why don't we ASSUME the jury will do exactly as they are instructed and give them the benefit of the doubt?

WHY saddle THEM with a load from another jury and another case from two years ago?

Would anyone here want to be treated as if they weren't a cogent, respectable, law-abiding person who can and will follow the judge's instructions? Would anyone here want to be compared to some other group--a group that has nothing to do with the current jury?

No way.

Don't 'hope' the jury follows what the judge tells them to do. ASSUME they will!

And if there is blame in that last case...well...good 'ol Judge Melvin Blowhard Perry assured the acquittal as much as anyone. HE even picked some of the jurors, allowing jurors who openly said they didn't think it was "fair" to judge someone. Further, he directly impacted the jury instructions and confused the jury with all the charges. :banghead:

Thanks Madeleine....I needed that!

 

[HarvestMoon]

Has anyone put together clips of the parts of Martinez's closing that got a head shake, a "no, I didn't", a chuckle, eye roll, a smile or some other response/reaction from Jodi? I'd love to see them one after another just to get an idea of what she reacts to.

Just saw the clip where she reacted to when he mentioned her sleeping under the Christmas tree.:notgood::notgood:

You know I noticed all of he "no's" While Juan went thru the whole minute details of the murder scenario, she listened carefully, and there wasn't one single no.

 

[Maryann123]

The way Jodi goes about peaking at the crime scene and autopsy photos is how criminal profilers describe serial killers, mass killers, arsonists and all the other psychopathic killers behave.

These sick individuals will often visit their victims graves, keep tokens of the victim/murder or revisit the scene bc these acts give them a secondary rush of pleasure they felt when they were actually committing the murder.

This is the only reason Jodi peeks at those graphic photos and why her tears are not real, IMO.

Profilers say a majority of criminals return to the scene of the crime. Jodi had a friend drive by Travis' house after the memorial. She asked to see the death photos, saying I guess I have a morbid curiosity, and then she asked if she could go back in the house to get some of her personal belongings. Not, can you get my things for me, she wanted to go back in! Now, sneaking peeps of all the gore and blood. This girl is not right! She is a psychopath.

 

[GoAskAllie]

Did Jodi actually say she returned the gas can TO THE SAME WALMART? (I am aware there are posts saying there was only one Walmart in Salinas until 2010.) But, Nurmi objected TWICE yesterday when Juan stated she said the "SAME STORE". He's got something up his sleeve, me thinks.:banghead:

I don't want Nurmi to be able to refute a single word of Juan's closing. It would look bad to the jury. TIA

The answer is a big fat YES. Juan asked her TWICE under cross examination if she returned the gas can to the same store. Then he said, "Would it surprise you to learn that the Walmart in Salinas has no record of anyone returning a gas can on June 3? She said yes it would surprise her because she returned the gas can to the same store and received a cash refund.

The nature of our adversarial legal system means that Nurmi will spend the bulk of his time challenging the State's case/refuting Juan's closing argument. That's his job--and his obligation--as a defense lawyer.

 

[Peliman]

They are supposed to start at 9:00 AZ time so that would be Noon your time :seeya:

But, they will probably be late 'cause they usually are.

Peliman, Judge said 9 am AZ time, therefore I think that is 12 pm EST

Thanks, I'll start hovering around the living room around high noon. Good time to watch a JM shootout at the AZ court room. Don't think I'll be watching Nurmi though, I don't have a month to listen, just in case. lol

 

[Boytwnmom]

to "argue the alternative" as it is the jury who decides what the facts are. Juan can tell the jury what he believes the facts are but it is the sole province of the jury to decide what the facts are. So, Juan says he believes the evidence shows she brought the gun. But he also argues the alternative as the jury could find the gun was Travis's as the defense will argue. So, Juan says, even if you believe the DT theory that the evidence shows the gun was Travis's, your conclusion will be the same as that set of facts also constitutes Murder 1 but for a different reason.

It would make no sense if there were already an AGREED set of facts. But, that what the jury does, decides what the facts actually are so you need to argue in anticipation of the fact finding of the jury.

Is it just me or was anyone else confused by JM jumping from "she brought the gun" right into "she stole the gun from Travis" if there is anyone on the jury hunting for an excuse to acquit or convict of a lesser offense I am afraid they could use that. I am so nervous she is going to walk.

 

[PattyMI]

I get chills when I think about what she must have been screaming at him as she proceeded with her inhuman butchery. Because you know she was screaming something.

JMO but I believe when JA stated, "I'm gonna kill you b$tch"... she really said to TA, "I'm gonna kill you, you bast$$d". Everything she says is always the opposite.