CO- Dylan Redwine, 13, Vallecito, 19 November 2012 - #47

[mixologist74]

I don't want to argue, as we have no idea on what basis this particular warrant was granted. However, I thought I would give a link and definition for probable cause specifically.

If anyone (Not specifically meaning you BayouM...) does wish to understand search warrants and probable cause, please read the following and visit the links...

A link, and a quote as it concerns "probable cause". This is a specific legal term:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Probable_cause#Definitions_in_the_United_States



BBM

Probable cause for a search warrant cannot be a "fishing expedition" (no pun intended). There have to be particular reasons given for why a person would reasonably suspect that there would be evidence of an actual criminal act occurring in a place they want to search.

There are a great many more details, and information on this page which includes many case citations.

Law Enforcement Legal Update
by Robert Phillips
Ch. 6 - Searches with a Search Warrant
http://www.legalupdateonline.com/4th/366#cont369

IMO, LE had to be looking for something in particular, even if we don't know what that something was. So I agree with you. It could have been as easy as looking around for email communications, phone communications, etc. I guess we'll never know for sure unless/until we see a search warrant affidavit.

 

[Dee10]

Which case is this?

Although this little girl was found alive but... :anguish: & I haven't had a chance to read today's news on the case. Just horrific!

CA -10 year old girl , Northridge, 27 March 2013 - Kidnapping suspected
[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=203372"]Found Safe CA -10 year old girl , Northridge, 27 March 2013 - Kidnapping suspected - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

 

[NC Analyzer]

I didn't mean to discredit LE in CO with the comparison- more the media machine of southern California vs a rural town. I am sure i will be glad one day when everything LE has holds up in court because it was properly obtained and not revealed unduly. Until then, it is an exercise in frustration!

I know. I guess I'm trying to remain optimistic about this case. So tired of all the Kyron's, Baby Lisa's, Haileigh's, et al. Just hoping ONE case like those will finally see a resolution. lease:

 

[mixologist74]

I'm curious as to what, in your opinion, the use of a call to a "burner phone" would be? Keeping in mind, of course, that there are many reasons for using a pre-paid cell (the terminology I prefer as my pre-paid is not a burner phone for nefarious purposes). Why wouldn't LE simply say that we haven't been able to verify the owner of the phone number texted?

Since the contents were not disclosed either, then I have to think there is something more specific besides just not knowing who the text was sent.

I'm stuck wondering why R's last text to DR was at 9:27, and then the last text from DR's phone was 10 minutes later. It seems odd that he wouldn't have answered R's last text, but would have texted someone else...

As always, all of the above is MOO! :cow:

Pre-paid cells, I refer to as burners, purely for the fact that you buy and then can lose/ditch them and they're cheap. I had to get a "burner" once, when I was on my way to a wedding in an area that had no cell reception on AT&T, but had pre-paid cells for sale in a Dollar Store I went to. I used it to get a hold of people while in the bad reception area, and then I "burned" it. I had no further need for it after that. Hope this helps.

 

[NC Analyzer]

IMO, LE had to be looking for something in particular, even if we don't know what that something was. So I agree with you. It could have been as easy as looking around for email communications, phone communications, etc. I guess we'll never know for sure unless/until we see a search warrant affidavit.

WRT phone communication...that would have been a separate warrant. They may have asked to see the computer(s), but we haven't heard anything about those. I do know that it takes some time to forensically evaluate a computer, so maybe that's part of the hold up in this case.

 

[Dee10]

Dee THANKS ! I forgot all about that statement. I wonder if LE stands by that same statement today. Like do you still not believe there is an SO in the area abducting children? Would be telling, no ?

LE has a duty to protect the public, so if they have changed their stance, I truly believe they would say so JMO.

 

[Confusion]

I don't understand why everyone places so much importance on who received the last text from DR. LE hasn't said anything about who received any texts from him or what they said. ER did say at some point (maybe on DP) that it was to a friend, but I can understand completely why the friend wouldn't want to talk to the press about it (or the friend's parents wouldn't allow it.) My guess was that it was a female friend, and maybe a bit more personal than she wanted to share with the general public (not anything real intimate, but maybe embarrassing for someone at that age.) MOO

 

[TxJan1971]

Yep. I've been trying to explain this repeatedly to no avail. LE has some kind of evidence or they wouldn't be able to obtain a search warrant. There is "something"...it might be simple or it might be complex, but in order to obtain a warrant and search the property (for several hours with a forensic evidence van, no less) they had something specific that they used to convince that judge.

BBM
Jumping off your post,

In his home, still jumbled from a 12-hour search by investigators several days ago, Mark is having a harder time holding on to that hope.

http://www.canoncitydailyrecord.com/ci_22110078/dad-its-wait-wonder

 

[TxJan1971]

I don't understand why everyone places so much importance on who received the last text from DR. LE hasn't said anything about who received any texts from him or what they said. ER did say at some point (maybe on DP) that it was to a friend, but I can understand completely why the friend wouldn't want to talk to the press about it (or the friend's parents wouldn't allow it.) My guess was that it was a female friend, and maybe a bit more personal than she wanted to share with the general public (not anything real intimate, but maybe embarrassing for someone at that age.) MOO

BBM
Jumping off your post to provide verbiage:

ER:
9:30 would be early, and it’s definitely early for him to stop texting, especially when he was so excited to see his friends.

Dr. Phil:
His friends on that end?

ER:
Yes, his friends in the southwest.

Dr. Phil:
And was he texting them up until 9:30?

ER:
I believe the last text was about 9:30… somewhere around there.

Dr. Phil:
To those friends?

ER:
Yes.

 

[TxJan1971]

I've provided a link to the article about RN's texts with DR as well as one photo of the cell phone text from Monday a.m. (RN to DR).

See entire far left hand column.

There is a small photo of the cell phone text from Monday a.m. from RN to DR. If you keep scrolling beneath that photo, it lists the actual messages/times between RN/DR beginning Sunday when DR arrives at the airport.

Please note that the last text from RN to DR occurs at 9:27 p.m. and it does NOT display any response from DR at 9:37.

Ryan: (Time 9:27 p.m. Nov. 18) Call me when you get here too


http://www.durangoherald.com/article/20121215/NEWS01/121219687/-1/news01&source=RSS

 

[Annie1004]

Since the search warrant was executed over 3 months ago, it appears nothing damning was found or MR would have been arrested by now IMO. I know forensics tests take time, but in a case like this, all kinds of rushes would have been in place to get answers ASAP. I am not sticking up for MR, rather only pointing out that obvious signs of a crime were not uncovered by LE during the search - clues or puzzle pieces maybe, but no smoking gun.

 

[Bayou Mistress]

How Police Obtain Search Warrants
Police officers obtain search warrants by convincing a judge or magistrate that they have "probable cause" to believe that criminal activity is occurring at the place to be searched or that evidence of a crime may be found there. Usually, the police provide the judge or magistrate with information in the form of written statements under oath, called "affidavits," which report either their own observations, or those of private citizens or police undercover informants. If the magistrate believes that the affidavit establishes probable cause to conduct a search, he or she will issue a warrant.

BBM
http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/search-warrant-basics-29742.html

Without the affidavit(s), we can not surmise the intent of the search and Dylan being last seen there (as reported by MR) is enough in itself. Sorry I didn't rely on wiki.

 

[Seajay]

Yes, and this was in a high-population area as well. AND, the child was apparently abducted from her home in the middle of the night. Not only is stranger abduction rare even in a bigger area, but abduction by a stranger from a home is even more rare. I too thought of Dylan because of the comment in the last press release about DR "somehow" leaving the home. (To me that makes it seem as if they don't believe he left on his own.)

It doesn't seem to be all that rare. Polly Klaas was abducted from her room, Madeline McCann was abducted from her room, Isabel Celis was abducted from her room, Elizabeth Smart was abducted from her room, in Los Angeles a 10 year old was abducted from her room this week, Jessica Lundsford was abducted from her home. All of these abductions were by strangers. So it does happen. If it happened once, it will happen again. It can happen anywhere. Including Vallecito, CO.

 

[Seajay]

The 10 year old girl in Northridge CA. Recovered safely about 12 hours after being reported missing. Assaulted but dropped off in public and recognized by a bystander. The differences are huge. Instant and large LE and FBI presence, huge media splash and hyper aware public. Granted, Southern California is not Southern Colorado. The circumstances in Northridge may yet be extraordinary. But can you imagine if the FBI had shown up on Monday night to look for Dylan????

Even with a large LE & FBI presence, I doubt they would have found her had she not been dropped off. Had the perps decided to keep her for awhile, this wouldn't have ended in 12 hours. JMO.

 

[Seajay]

Pre-paid cells, I refer to as burners, purely for the fact that you buy and then can lose/ditch them and they're cheap. I had to get a "burner" once, when I was on my way to a wedding in an area that had no cell reception on AT&T, but had pre-paid cells for sale in a Dollar Store I went to. I used it to get a hold of people while in the bad reception area, and then I "burned" it. I had no further need for it after that. Hope this helps.

Over at the LISK site, that term was used a lot by LE while searching for a serial killer. The killer called one of the sisters of a girl he murdered and taunted her about her sister's death. LE tried tracing the origin of the phone calls, which were made in Madison Square Garden, the Port Authority and Times Square, all by someone using a phone registered to a Mickey Mouse. LE traced those calls to a burner phone, a disposable phone, like you described.

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=161018"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

 

[WesternMD]

Winter and early Spring winds are still howling in parts of the USofA... anyone else having problems keeping candles lighted for Dylan's path home?

 

[Dee10]

It doesn't seem to be all that rare. Polly Klaas was abducted from her room, Madeline McCann was abducted from her room, Isabel Celis was abducted from her room, Elizabeth Smart was abducted from her room, in Los Angeles a 10 year old was abducted from her room this week, Jessica Lundsford was abducted from her home. All of these abductions were by strangers. So it does happen. If it happened once, it will happen again. It can happen anywhere. Including Vallecito, CO.

With all due respect Seajay, IMHO it is disservice to both Madeline & Isabel to state the above (BBM) as fact...it maybe your opinion, but these cases have not been solved. Still waiting for justice for both these beautiful girls.:scale:

 

[Lordeebee]

How Police Obtain Search Warrants
Police officers obtain search warrants by convincing a judge or magistrate that they have "probable cause" to believe that criminal activity is occurring at the place to be searched or that evidence of a crime may be found there. Usually, the police provide the judge or magistrate with information in the form of written statements under oath, called "affidavits," which report either their own observations, or those of private citizens or police undercover informants. If the magistrate believes that the affidavit establishes probable cause to conduct a search, he or she will issue a warrant.

BBM
http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/search-warrant-basics-29742.html

Without the affidavit(s), we can not surmise the intent of the search and Dylan being last seen there (as reported by MR) is enough in itself. Sorry I didn't rely on wiki.

BBM
I believe this is just a distinction between a crime happening currently, and a crime that has already happened - not whether the crime was committed by an unknown perp. As has been shown in earlier posts, the warrant is specific to the probable cause of a crime by a particular person.

 

[Bayou Mistress]

BBM
I believe this is just a distinction between a crime happening currently, and a crime that has already happened - not whether the crime was committed by an unknown perp. As has been shown in earlier posts, the warrant is specific to the probable cause of a crime by a particular person.

Please post a link to support this that isn't someone's opinion.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

It doesn't seem to be all that rare. Polly Klaas was abducted from her room, Madeline McCann was abducted from her room, Isabel Celis was abducted from her room, Elizabeth Smart was abducted from her room, in Los Angeles a 10 year old was abducted from her room this week, Jessica Lundsford was abducted from her home. All of these abductions were by strangers. So it does happen. If it happened once, it will happen again. It can happen anywhere. Including Vallecito, CO.

Isabel and Madeleine's cares are unsolved. Jessica was abducted by her neighbor. Elizabeth was abducted by someone who worked on her family's house. Polly was the only victim in your post, where a stranger was arrested for her abduction.

Can we think of some cases where boys around age 13 were kidnapped by strangers?