Identified! CO - Gunnison Nat’l Forest, 3 Decomposed Bodies, long term camping near Gold Creek Campground, July 2023 - Rebecca & Christine Vance & Boy, 14

[EmiliaRT007]

The DM article posted in Post #8 sounds like they may already know who the deceased are. It says, "The coroner won't release the identities of those deceased until the next of kin has been notified."

To me I could see either side. I guess they don’t know the identities of the deceased so they are waiting until they do get some confirmation then notifying the next of kin. But if they do know why on earth are they *not* telling family?

 

[branmuffin]

To me I could see either side. I guess they don’t know the identities of the deceased so they are waiting until they do get some confirmation then notifying the next of kin. But if they do know why on earth are they *not* telling family?

I think they did tell the families. They were discovered on July 13 and by July 19, LE had already identified that the deceased were not locals, that they were related and had already spoken to individuals believed to be their relatives.

Here's the local newspaper that states that info. I think it prudent to try and identify them as quickly as possible (if possible) to ensure unnecessary false hope to other families that are missing loved ones. I don't think the lag between the 13th and the 19th is an excessive period of time.

Three found dead at Gold Creek may have been camping long-term - Gunnison Country Times

The three deceased individuals found at Gold Creek Campground earlier this month are thought to have tried to live there through the winter, according to Gunnison County Coroner Michael Barnes. As of press time, their identities had still not been released. On Sunday, July 9, the Gunnison County...

www.gunnisontimes.com

 

[EmiliaRT007]

I think they did tell the families. They were discovered on July 13 and by July 19, LE had already identified that the deceased were not locals, that they were related and had already spoken to individuals believed to be their relatives.

Here's the local newspaper that states that info. I think it prudent to try and identify them as quickly as possible (if possible) to ensure unnecessary false hope to other families that are missing loved ones. I don't think the lag between the 13th and the 19th is an excessive period of time.

Three found dead at Gold Creek may have been camping long-term - Gunnison Country Times

The three deceased individuals found at Gold Creek Campground earlier this month are thought to have tried to live there through the winter, according to Gunnison County Coroner Michael Barnes. As of press time, their identities had still not been released. On Sunday, July 9, the Gunnison County...

www.gunnisontimes.com

Whoopsy daisy! I didn’t see that. I saw that the deceased have been identified as a 14 year old boy and his mother and aunt.

 

[azure]

The stepsister mentioned in interview of valuable lessons for those considering to live off the grid but I think also reminder of the need to plan and follow up on family and friends in high risk situations. The sisters refused to share exact location of destination for living off the grid but agreed to send post card upon arrival, which didn’t happen. So, in situations as this maybe research and invest in hidden device for tracking their location, allowing for at least possibility of a welfare check when as was the case here they fail to contact family. No word for a year, no doubt family was worried but no means to locate.

I suppose. Adults can make their own decisions, even if they are unwise. I think the right thing to do in this situation would have been to call CPS. It would have been very upsetting to Rebecca, but it would have saved her son's life.

 

[ch_13]

So, in situations as this maybe research and invest in hidden device for tracking their location, allowing for at least possibility of a welfare check

RSBM.

You absolutely should not be using an electronic tracker to monitor other people without their knowledge, no matter how well meaning your intentions. It's a gross violation of their privacy and in many states it would be a felony.

 

[Dhighsmith]

RSBM.

You absolutely should not be using an electronic tracker to monitor other people without their knowledge, no matter how well meaning your intentions. It's a gross violation of their privacy and in many states it would be a felony.

Understand some may mot agree and that fine but if it’s my loved one and I’m concerned of possible risk associated with mental illness, I’ll forgo protecting their rights of privacy in efforts to ensure their safety.

 

[Dhighsmith]

I suppose. Adults can make their own decisions, even if they are unwise. I think the right thing to do in this situation would have been to call CPS. It would have been very upsetting to Rebecca, but it would have saved her son's life.

That’s definitely a legitimate option but in some cases of mental illness you may not be able to reason with them and calling authorities may result in serious agitation causing them to run.

 

[weepingangel]

Questions linger in death of family who went 'off the grid' in Colorado wilderness

The partially mummified bodies of sisters Rebecca and Christine Vance and Rebecca's teenage son were discovered at a remote campsite this month, officials said.

www.nbcnews.com

 

[dalsglen]

I have a 14yo that's in a huff with us just because we want to move to a bigger house in a different town, I can't imagine telling her we're going camping 24/7 with no wifi. I

That poor boy. Time and time again kids are failed by the parents. On that note, where was dad?

 

[RedHaus]

On that note, where was dad?

RSBM

Perhaps the father was deceased. Or perhaps the boy was not in a 'traditional' family unit. Maybe he was adopted by a single mother, or had parents of the same gender, or was the product of artificial insemination by his mother, etc.

So respectfully, IMO, the question isn't 'where was dad', but where was the boys' extended family, school administrators, and child protection and / or mental health and / or judicial systems designed to protect the poor boy.

As others have said, at 13 / 14 the boy had no choice. I am not going to go down the victim blaming route, per TOS, but it just seems that in a perfect world his tragic death could have been prevented.

 

[ch_13]

I have to say that I think there's a bit of Monday morning quarterbacking going on in this thread. I don't believe that it was obvious to anyone who interacted with Becky and Christine in the days and weeks before they left Colorado Springs that they had charted a disastrous course.

By all accounts, Becky Vance loved her son and was not abusive to him. She had apparently been successfully homeschooling him since the pandemic began. No one seemed to think she was in any way mentally ill. The sisters didn't reveal their plans to anyone prior to them leaving for Gunnison. Becky only told her stepsister that she wanted to live off the grid. That's not in any way illegal or perilous. Tens if not hundreds of thousands of people in the U.S. live that way, in communes, survivalist communities, vans and RVs, and so on. And many of those folks have children. It's not the way I would want to live and in my opinion not a good way to raise a child, but it's not necessarily abusive. There's just no way anyone could have guessed that of all the options she and Christine had available to them, they would choose to set up a camp high in the Rockies.

Unless the sisters fessed up, I'm really not sure what their relatives or CPS or any other entity could have done to prevent what happened. And while the government should obviously be intervening in cases of abuse, I don't think they should be proactively policing how parents raise their children when there have been no prior bad acts.

 

[Cedars]

...where was the boys' extended family, school administrators, and child protection and / or mental health and / or judicial systems designed to protect the poor boy.

IMO, government services are set in motion in response to complaints made by individuals, at the right time, to the correct authority, about a legitimate issue that relates specifically to that authority.

For example, in the case of Lori Vallow, who has just been sentenced, no one might ever have known her children were dead, except that her son's grandmother worried about not having skype calls with him. And somewhat freakishly, her home happened to be under surveillance by a private detective, working for a different relative on a different matter... the detective noticed there was no sign of any children and conveyed that information back. It was the relatives who took this information/welfare concern to police, and set the wheels of government authority in motion.

So I think it's appropriate for family and friends of a minor child to be concerned for the child's welfare. Not just in cases of overt child abuse, but also neglect.

Neglect includes 'where a child's environment is injurious to his or her welfare, when a parent/guardian refuses to provide food, shelter, education, or medical treatment'. Neglect

IMO her media statements show the stepsister offered her own off-grid place, because it 'at least' had shelter and access to grocery stores. So I think there was an understanding of how radical the mother's proposal was.

There's no duty for a relative to report child neglect, but I believe this would have been seen as a legitimate concern if reported to, for example, the child abuse hotline.

IMO, the stepsister made a sincere and concerted effort to prevent this outcome for all 3 of her loved ones. She probably didn't understand or think through the legal principles around child dependency and parental responsibilty, and so probably didn't see it as being her business to come between mother and child.

Making an effort doesn't guarantee the outcome you want. But you can avoid regret and guilt because at least you tried, and did the right thing.

JMO

 

[IceIce9]

Understand some may mot agree and that fine but if it’s my loved one and I’m concerned of possible risk associated with mental illness, I’ll forgo protecting their rights of privacy in efforts to ensure their safety.

Has it been reported that mental illness was involved?

 

[branmuffin]

Has it been reported that mental illness was involved?

No but it's possible the individuals who knew them best were not able to qualify the behavior as a mental illness. I find those preppers who have trip wires around the perimeter of their property and underground caches of weapons to be suffering paranoia but what I can gather based on websites solely devoted to the genre, have plenty of company in the thousands.

 

[Cedars]

No but it's possible the individuals who knew them best were not able to qualify the behavior as a mental illness. I find those preppers who have trip wires around the perimeter of their property and underground caches of weapons to be suffering paranoia but what I can gather based on websites solely devoted to the genre, have plenty of company in the thousands.

I don't think a psychiatric diagnosis is very relevant in this kind of case.

I think this is more about the popular, ordinary, non-scientific concept of 'crazy'. As in, 'that guy who created the Titan submersible must have been crazy to think it would work'. Or 'she's driving like a crazy person', etc.

I think it's about whether the person has ideas/beliefs that are in touch with reality. We none of us know everything about reality, so an idea we call crazy can actually be perfectly 'sane'.

But I'd say a simple test is whether the idea/belief helps you, and the others following you, to survive, or not.

JMO

 

[Chimera]

As far as the teen boy, once things began to get dire (assuming that's how it happened), I wish they would've taken him to a relatives' or a friend's place ?
Just my take on it.

Regardless --- rest in peace to all three.
I'm sorry it turned out so wrong for them !
Omo.

 

[RedHaus]

Several new tidbits here in this 7/31/2023 story and video, from KRDO.

1. "Though [Gunnison County Coroner] Barnes is still waiting on toxicology reports to come in, he suspects the three died as a result of malnutrition, exposure to the elements, or carbon monoxide poisoning."

2. "Christine and Rebecca's stepsister Trevala Jara said... her sisters' choice wasn't motivated by religion or conspiracy theories. She said it was a combination of multiple factors including instability due to the COVID-19 pandemic and shifting politics... "...they wanted to protect each other, and that they really thought that they could do it..." said Jara."

3. "Christine and Rebecca... met up with a survivalist once to figure out how to live on their own, but Jara said they were completely unqualified to live out in the harsh conditions."

4. [Jara] said they weren't crazy, they just got in over their heads in a horrible situation.

5. "Barnes said the bodies were visibly and unnaturally thin, indicating the three possibly died from starvation."

6. "He also believes carbon monoxide poisoning could have contributed to their deaths. When Barnes was at the campground, he noticed evidence pointing to the three people boiling [burning?] tinder for a fire in empty soup cans.

7. "Inside the tent, investigators found empty food packaging and several books on foraging and how to plant vegetables, but investigators saw no equipment for heavy winter conditions like snow boots or snow gear."

It just sounds like they were wildly unprepared for a harsh winter at 10K feet in the Rocky Mountains.

I won't speculate about their mental health, intelligence, will to preserve self, or survival instincts, as its against WS TSO. But I will continue to consider that this tragedy was likely preventable, which makes it that much harder to understand.

IMO.

 

[Teignmouth 22]

Questions linger in death of family who went 'off the grid' in Colorado wilderness

The partially mummified bodies of sisters Rebecca and Christine Vance and Rebecca's teenage son were discovered at a remote campsite this month, officials said.

www.nbcnews.com

From the article above:

"Jara attempted to appeal to her stepsisters to go slow with their plan and test out living off the grid on a property that she owns in the mountains with her husband that relies on a generator. Rebecca Vance resisted, she said."

It's a shame that option wasn't taken up. It would have been perhaps a gentler introduction to the realities of life off grid. I've dreamed of leading a quiet peaceful life away from it all myself; in a canal boat (although I can't swim!) or a cabin in Scotland. Realistically though, as a widow with no children or family nearby, with health issues and unable to drive, a dream it will most likely remain.

R.I.P.

 

[Betty P]

From the article above:

"Jara attempted to appeal to her stepsisters to go slow with their plan and test out living off the grid on a property that she owns in the mountains with her husband that relies on a generator. Rebecca Vance resisted, she said."

It's a shame that option wasn't taken up. It would have been perhaps a gentler introduction to the realities of life off grid. I've dreamed of leading a quiet peaceful life away from it all myself; in a canal boat (although I can't swim!) or a cabin in Scotland. Realistically though, as a widow with no children or family nearby, with health issues and unable to drive, a dream it will most likely remain.

R.I.P.

It's been quite a while since I last went camping, but I do recall sleeping in a tent, on the ground was much more uncomfortable than it used to be. I can't imagine dealing with the cold and wind at that altitude, on top of trying to eat, keep clean, etc. In cold weather you wouldn't be able to bathe or anything. Ugh. The people who post those You Tube videos about surviving "off the grid" should include some responsible disclaimers about who should and shouldn't try it.

 

[Snail-Overlord]

The only food found at their shelter was a single package of ramen.

Snipped. If there was an unopened packet of ramen there, it seems less likely that starvation was the cause of their deaths. IMO