CO - Jessica Ridgeway, 10, Westminster, 5 Oct 2012 - #21

[absentia]

David Berkowitz aka The Son of Sam. Wonderful parents and childhood AFAIK.

he was adopted and felt shamed and rejected b/c of this. he thought his birth mother died giving birth to him. he had guilt and anger due to that.
not a happy childhood.

 

[StJohn]

Not sure if Austin Siggs, was DNA swabbed by WPD, but if he had a bio relative whose DNA is in CODIS, Colorado has a familial DNA law.. This is how the Grim Sleeper(CA) Serial killer was identified after 2 decades.

http://www.forensicmag.com/article/family-feud-familial-dna-search-controversy-continues
To search or not to search, that is the question.

Forensic familial DNA searching for investigative purposes has made headlines in recent years, particularly with the capture and prosecution of the high-profile “Grim Sleeper” serial killer suspect in California. In this case, a search of California’s DNA database revealed that the DNA from a young man who had recently been arrested in the Los Angeles area partially matched samples taken from Grim Sleeper crime scenes.

The match strongly indicated that this man was either the child or parent of the person committing these crimes. From that lead, detectives narrowed the investigation to the arrestee’s father, tested a discarded slice of pizza the suspect left at public food court, and ultimately arrested Lonnie David Franklin Jr. as the Grim Sleeper.

I suspected this could be the case, having heard about the relative who had a conviction for bank fraud. So I am wondering if LE already had AS in their crosshairs, based on a familial DNA match. LE may have hoped to force a confession by releasing the picture of the cross - if so it was brilliant strategy on their part.

 

[DylansMom34]

http://www.rrcc.edu/warrentech/

The Warren Tech website. It is NOT an alternative high school or school for troubled youth. FWIW

 

[Marah]

If the jogger did grab the cross off of him, wouldn't they have released that information at the time?
I am pretty sure they have said all along the cross is from one of Jessica's crime scenes.

 

[jillycat]

And some of us really want to know every aspect of what makes a person like this tick. What causes it - and what can be done about it. I don't believe he was born evil. So what causes someone to do this? If we stop asking the questions - the answers will never be found. To understand it also helps so we can identify it and protect against it.

These individuals "tick" like faulty hard drives or corrupt software. Just as you can't run an F disk on a factory-defective hard drive and get a functional computer, or clean up a perverted file, you can't "rehabilitate" a sociopath. There is badly written or missing code in these people that is not created by bad childhoods, not getting invited to proms, flunking tests, being bullied, viewing *advertiser censored*, or being abused.

The world can be a tragic, maddening, and grief-provoking place. But the number of people overcoming these factors and aspiring to have positive impact on such factors, or in spite of them, is greater than the number of individuals taking up the sport of systematically hunting fellow humans, hacking them up, and tossing remains in open spaces or hoarding body parts in the family home.

We can understand the common traits of such individuals and study how they operate and how to avoid contact with them and limit the potential for their opportunistic encounters with victims. But if we put these individuals on Zanadu and fed them nothing but honey from the gods and gave them Joseph and Mary as parents, they would still find someone weaker to prey upon and harm.

I think of it like this - a reticulated python or piranha might make interesting science and behavior study projects or pets from a safe distance, but their nature is unchanged by altering their environments or giving them decent care.

 

[DylansMom34]

If she did grab the cross off of him, wouldn't they have released that information at the time? I am pretty sure they have said all along the cross is from one of Jessica's crime scenes.

Yeah, that is what I remember too, that it came from one of Jessica's crime scenes. My guess is, the victim of the attempted abduction at Ketner Lake was shown the cross and recognized it. (MOO)

 

[Dr. Know?]

I wanted to correct something that I have read lately here about the amount of tips (even though they have arrested AS). It wasn't 1000, it was over 9400. Considering Isabel Celis' case only has around 3000+ since April of this year, I'm impressed. jmo (hopefully majority weren't psychics)


Posted: 10/23/2012
Last Updated: 2 days ago

WESTMINSTER, Colo. - Westminster Police officers are working their way through 9,400 tips in the abduction and murder of 10-year-old Jessica Ridgeway.

Officers have received 3,400 tips via email and 6,000 phone tips, Investigator Trevor Materasso of the Westminster Police Department told 7NEWS reporter Jaclyn Allen

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/new...ips-in-jessica-ridgeway-abduction-murder-case

 

[MidwestMama]

Just to throw in my :twocents: about the subject of abuse, as a result of participating in a support group, I have met many individuals who have been victims of abuse at the hands of parents, family, etc. I have heard unimaginable stories. Many of these people are living exemplary lives, some having gone through extensive therapy. My experience has been that females seem to be more inclined to seek therapy than males - I guess because there is still some stigma involved in seeking therapy, some still view it as a sign of "weakness".

That being said, not sure any amount of therapy would have changed (or will change) who A. Sigg has become.

I agree. Some of the STRONGEST people I know have horrific tales to tell of abuse they have survived.

 

[kmn]

I think if the cross came off during the jogger attack, the pic would have come out back then. She may have gotten his DNA from fighting him off which matched the cross. MOO

 

[nursebeeme]

I actually heard it on the news. Warren Tech was a HS alternative. It is a HS in the school system, "Career and Technical High School for Jefferson County Public Schools". Regardless if I heard it on the news, in my experience as well, alternative HS's are for kids who aren't quite making it in mainstream HS. I didn't just make this up.

I believe that school is a like a career center.... (that is what we call them here).. not for behavior problems or kids who cannot cut it For our career center has mechanic programs, LPN program, culinary arts, etc.. :twocents:

 

[EmilyB]

While I agree it is an 'alternative HS', it doesn't mean all the kids going there couldn't make it in regular HS. As the other poster pointed out, some are going there to be trained in a vocation so that upon graduation, they have a career to go into. It attracts many kids who cannot afford college or do not want to pursue college. I have a friend whose son goes to Warren Tech. They offer training in many different fields.

They interviewed some kids on the news and what I said before is what they said about Warren Tech. I'm just going by what was said on the news and my own personal experience with those kinds of schools. My sister went to one. She wasn't a trouble maker at all but was struggling in a regular high school. She thrived in the alternative. (P.S. I never said it was for trouble makers!)

But I really feel that AS was struggling in a regular HS and I think he was fascinated with Forensic Science, so he chose to go to Warren Tech for that reason. JMO!

Edited to add that my half brothers went to an "alternative HS" and the one is like a genius. He's now going to college and majoring in Genetics.

 

[Confusion]

This is not what Warren Tech is.

http://www.rrcc.edu/warrentech/

The Warren Tech website. It is NOT an alternative high school or school for troubled youth. FWIW

I guess I misunderstood what people were saying. I thought they said he quit high school and then went there (which I thought was before he got his GED.) This place just sounds like all of the other technical/community colleges around here.

 

[basilcat]

IIRC LE were purposely vague about where the cross was recovered - it was never specifically stated that it was found during the course of investigating Jessica's case - in fact, IIRC, they only said it was located from a "crime scene" - which could be the attempted abduction of the jogger at Ketner lake.
The fact that LE also stated that they had "strong evidence" to link the two cases leads me to believe that they had actual physical evidence from the jogger attack and not just eyewitness testimony...
Maybe?

 

[human]

Joran van der Sloot: two murders of young women, father: prosecutor, mother: art teacher, privileged, happy home, good education, bright future, two other children in the family pursuing professional careers.

I would likewise be very interested in links to research that documents a direct link between an unfortunate childhood and serial murderer behavior. It simply isn't there. For decades, researchers have attempted to identify markers that can predict sociopathic, or serial murderer behavior. Everything from phrenology to brain size and, most recently, DNA, have been explored. To date, there is no correlation between physical characteristics, or environmental influences, and sociopathy, or serial murderers.

The above is based on studies in various fields, and I don't have time to search for related links.

I don't feel like looking anything up either Too lazy.

What do we really know about <modsnip>?

I know of a family that has two great kids and one a mess. But what most people do not know is that the father was a drug addict until he cleaned up For some reason, that child in the family I know was affected and the other two were not.

We do not know what happened in <modsnip> family at all that may have affected him. The fact that his parents are so protective of him certainly gives me a clue that something is not right

 

[Sleuths4Me]

I actually heard it on the news. Warren Tech was a HS alternative. It is a HS in the school system, "Career and Technical High School for Jefferson County Public Schools". Regardless if I heard it on the news, in my experience as well, alternative HS's are for kids who aren't quite making it in mainstream HS. I didn't just make this up.

ITA...Warren Tech is a Vo-Tech alternative school for those in HS, sometimes students go to both reg high school and others just to Warren Tech...I had an ex-bf that went to Warren Tech and he only went there while a few of his friends did both schools or just one...most just did one...they didn't want to be in the reg school..and couldn't handle the work load of traditional schooling. This is just my experience

 

[human]

I agree. Some of the STRONGEST people I know have horrific tales to tell of abuse they have survived.

Wouldn't it be great if we could have parenting classes and other things such as good daycare and preschools that support parents so that children don't have to suffer abuse.

Rather, it appears that we would rather spend the money on prisons, and trials, and destroyed lives.

Not everyone is going to be having a great life, but couldn't we at least care about children and families in this country instead of having bake sales to support schools and programs, etc?

 

[Confusion]

They interviewed some kids on the news and what I said before is what they said about Warren Tech. I'm just going by what was said on the news and my own personal experience with those kinds of schools. My sister went to one. She wasn't a trouble maker at all but was struggling in a regular high school. She thrived in the alternative. (P.S. I never said it was for trouble makers!)

But I really feel that AS was struggling in a regular HS and I think he was fascinated with Forensic Science, so he chose to go to Warren Tech for that reason. JMO!

Edited to add that my half brothers went to an "alternative HS" and the one is like a genius. He's now going to college and majoring in Genetics.

I agree completely. My son was loading and playing games on computers before he was 2, and writing simple programs (in BASIC) before he started kindergarten. When he was 2, if you asked him how to spell run, he'd say "r-u-n-enter!" He's extremely intelligent, but has extremely severe social phobia. He has catatonic panic attacks and selective mutism (he gets so anxious he isn't able to speak). He didn't need any kind of academic help, but he did need the structure and small class size. Once he started going there, he never missed a day of school and had straight A's every quarter. In fact, he had 4 more credits than he needed when he graduated.

 

[jokie7348]

I don't post much anymore, but I have had a couple of thoughts on two points that I will add.
I was an education professional for 36 years and I saw the gradual shifting of the vocational school for those who were not able to make the grade in regular high school to a tech-savy school with qualifications and entrance exams. There are certainly alternative schools for those with mental/behavioral problems; and there are alternative schools for the performing arts. Students have a vast choice of educational opportunities including special classes with individual education plans for the mentally challenged.

The second thought that has been niggling at the back of my brain is that I read early on (no link) that the torso could not be identified as male or female. I am wondering if he dissected the body between the navel and genitals to hide semen DNA.

Just my own thoughts and certainly my own opinions.

 

[tlcya]

Wouldn't it be great if we could have parenting classes and other things such as good daycare and preschools that support parents so that children don't have to suffer abuse.

Rather, it appears that we would rather spend the money on prisons, and trials, and destroyed lives.

Not everyone is going to be having a great life, but couldn't we at least care about children and families in this country instead of having bake sales to support schools and programs, etc?

In my perfect world we would do ALL of the above and more.

 

[human]

These individuals "tick" like faulty hard drives or corrupt software. Just as you can't run an F disk on a factory-defective hard drive and get a functional computer, or clean up a perverted file, you can't "rehabilitate" a sociopath. There is badly written or missing code in these people that is not created by bad childhoods, not getting invited to proms, flunking tests, being bullied, viewing *advertiser censored*, or being abused.

The world can be a tragic, maddening, and grief-provoking place. But the number of people overcoming these factors and aspiring to have positive impact on such factors, or in spite of them, is greater than the number of individuals taking up the sport of systematically hunting fellow humans, hacking them up, and tossing remains in open spaces or hoarding body parts in the family home.

We can understand the common traits of such individuals and study how they operate and how to avoid contact with them and limit the potential for their opportunistic encounters with victims. But if we put these individuals on Zanadu and fed them nothing but honey from the gods and gave them Joseph and Mary as parents, they would still find someone weaker to prey upon and harm.

I think of it like this - a reticulated python or piranha might make interesting science and behavior study projects or pets from a safe distance, but their nature is unchanged by altering their environments or giving them decent care.

I do not believe any infant is born evil.

I know one sociopath for sure. He has three children. Two of the boys have beaten their mother.

This father is so without morals--lying, stealing, etc etc etc. The children have observed and learned.

We can say what we want as parents, but children learn by watching us.

I fell some people are defensive about this topic for personal reasons. We all do the best we can. When we become aware of something that may not be the best in our personality or life,then we have the responsibility to start examination of changes that need to be made.

Forgive yourself and others, because no one is perfect.