CO - Jessica Ridgeway, 10, Westminster, 5 Oct. 2012 - #23

[Marilynilpa]

Sorry if this has been recently posted, I'm not quite up-to-date:

Police encourage children and parents' vigilance, especially in light of Jessica's slaying. The suspect charged in her death, 17-year-old Austin Sigg, is also accused of trying to kidnap a woman in May. But police also note that the firestorm that followed has detectives spending countless hours investigating a crime that is rare.

http://www.brushnewstribune.com/ci_...ion-attempts-rise-after-jessica-ridgeway-case

 

[michellemarls]

I have too.

BTW ether you have Asperger's or you don't. If you are not exhibiting all signs of it, then you don't have it.

Children can go into adulthood before diagnosis of ASD or AS, because it simply isn't a case of you either have set character traits that fit a certain criteria or you don't. It can take even the best and highly experienced Phsychiatrist a long time to determine a diagnosis. This is because individuals with ASD or AS all exhibit some or most of the problems they may have with social interaction, communication and repetitive and indepth interests and behaviours.

I suppose Austin Sigg could hold some character traits. His interest in death, could be intense and obsessive. Lack of empathy and impulsivity. Disregard for social norms....hmmm it's hard to say.

 

[otto]

here is the link to the pic
it is a Google Earth shot of the Moore street


http://gaddafi.freesmfhosting.com/index.php/topic,70.msg420.html#msg420

What I'm seeing is the tall fence on the left, but there doesn't appear to be a sidewalk there.

This is from Bing Maps ... and it shows a small area between the tall fences where Jessica would have been out of sight of most houses. I can't quite figure out how he did this ... without parking the vehicle and stalking her a short distance.

I'm just imagining how all this could have ended quite differently had the friend's dad been at that entrance to the park to collect Jessica, or if he had called her home to ask why she was delayed.

 

[otto]

Regarding the possibility that Austin has something like autism, we know that he's not the extreme ... he is not the autistic child that is obsessed with an object, like a comb, that he compulsively bangs on a piano key for hours and hours. Some autistic children (the tradition definition of autism) do that. Austin, if he has any form of autism, has a very mild form that permits him to function normally in society ... such that he learned language, computers, could participate in all normal activities, and has basically functioned the same as anyone else.

I'm curious ... those that think Austin may be autistic, what characteristics does he have (that we know he has) that indicate that he is autistic?

 

[nikb]

People, please stop confusing sociopathy with autism.lease: They are totally different things. People with autism do not understand how to interact with other people, but they are not anti-social, they are not hostile, or aggressive and they don't violate other people's rights. No way in hell is Sigg autistic. He is a sociopath.

Sorry if this has already been discussed over and over. Wanted to reply while this particular post is fresh on my mind but I know I'm a bit behind.

I apologize if my posts came off as confusing the two. If they did, I'm glad you pointed it out because that wasn't my intent at all (and I know you might not have been responding to me specifically, but I wanted to clarify my own point of view) I meant only that some of the things that have been said about him reminded me of some of the things I observed when working w/autistic kids. Even if he is autistic to some degree, I don't for a second think that's the ONLY thing he has going on. IMO it's not "just" one thing most likely. I for sure didn't mean to imply that all autistic people are sociopaths, not at all. But COULD someone have signs/symptoms/traits similar to autism and also be a sociopath? I'm not an expert, but I would think it's possible.

 

[michellemarls]

Regarding the possibility that Austin has something like autism, we know that he's not the extreme ... he is not the autistic child that is obsessed with an object, like a comb, that he compulsively bangs on a piano key for hours and hours. Some autistic children (the tradition definition of autism) do that. Austin, if he has any form of autism, has a very mild form that permits him to function normally in society ... such that he learned language, computers, could participate in all normal activities, and has basically functioned the same as anyone else.

I'm curious ... those that think Austin may be autistic, what characteristics does he have (that we know he has) that indicate that he is autistic?

To be honest i do not think he is Austistic. The traits that could fit are intense interest in a specialised subject, difficulty "fitting in", hence bullying becomes an issue. Lack of empathy could be a big one...inability to understand how his actions impact on others. Impulsivity...i suppose if he had a thought in his head regarding "death" he could act on it with disregard for the consequences.

Having said all that, i don't believe he has either ASD or AS. Or if he has that is not the reason he took little Jessica. imo.

 

[TnVolsFan]

Sorry if this has already been discussed over and over. Wanted to reply while this particular post is fresh on my mind but I know I'm a bit behind.

I apologize if my posts came off as confusing the two. If they did, I'm glad you pointed it out because that wasn't my intent at all (and I know you might not have been responding to me specifically, but I wanted to clarify my own point of view) I meant only that some of the things that have been said about him reminded me of some of the things I observed when working w/autistic kids. Even if he is autistic to some degree, I don't for a second think that's the ONLY thing he has going on. IMO it's not "just" one thing most likely. I for sure didn't mean to imply that all autistic people are sociopaths, not at all. But COULD someone have signs/symptoms/traits similar to autism and also be a sociopath? I'm not an expert, but I would think it's possible.

This is exactly my thoughts- I even stated that in my opinion he's definitely mentally ill in some form or fashion- sociopath, psychopath, schizophrenia whatever- but that it may also be compounded with a spectrum disorder- do I think he killed JR BECAUSE he could be ASD?? NO, but could ASD be a part of who this young man is? I think it's possible.

I for one wasn't comparing the two or confusing the two- only stating my thoughts based on photographs and testimony from people who knew him.

 

[nikb]

Nobody is confusing psychopathy with autism. I personally believe that AS shows more signs of autism than of psychopathy, but autism isn't what would make him do what he did. People with autism are just like people without it - some are hostile, and some aren't; some are anti-social, and some aren't; some can be aggressive, and some never are; I think you get the idea.<snipped for space>

BBM and snipped for space (though it was hard to decide what to snip!). This is so well put Confusion, thanks button just wasn't enough. This describes so well exactly what I was thinking too.

 

[SapphireSteel]

It's too easy these days to jump to labels.

I personally think autism and adhd is wayyyy over diagnosed and over treated.

No one can diagnose ARS until they've sat with him and interviewed him probably for days...and even then they need a couple of degrees to do it with any credibility.

Just because someone shows signs of a particular illness, doesn't mean they have it.

In fact IIRC you can "inherit" certain behaviours by being raised by a sufferer.

My own loved nieces show signs of hypochondria, because they grew up with a Munchausen mother, however they are not actual hypochondriacs. They also both exhibited symptoms of anorexia for a while, but they are not anorexic now. Their mother is a compulsive eater.

:dunno:

It's interesting but can be insulting to some groups if you judge without real knowledge.

The overwhelming percentage of the mentally ill are a danger to no one but themselves no matter how sick they get.

It is important to remember that abducting, assaulting and dismembering children is not a recognised symptom of ANY mental illness.

So no one's right, no one's wrong, we just don't know :waitasec:

perhaps we need to lay off the labels for now.

:cow:

 

[beach]

I signed on for the first time this morning and the Autism/Asperger's posts jumped out at me since my son has Asperger's Syndrome. Have I missed something suggesting that Sigg has HFA or Asperger's?

No you haven't. You have missed only more speculation regarding AS personality and behaviors (what little we have heard about them) and whether sociopathy or any other personlity type or diagnosis may fit the admittedly sparse info we have about him.

Som members who have personal experience or knowlege of autism spectrum were noticing some possible similarities to reported behaviors.

Mod message

Thanks because this whole debate that has turned into bickering over Autism/Asperger's left me clueless.

Just let it go. I would say it is okay for discussion and speculation, but when the bickering starts and voiced by non-verified professionals, the discussion stops.

I'm sure many of you have personal experiences on which you base your opinions, but there seems to be no respect for those with different viewpoints.

So, unless we get confirmation that Sigg was indeed diagnosed with Autism/Asperger's that line of discussion needs to stop. Completely derailing the thread and causing problems between members.

:tyou:

 

[beach]

they remove pics here ?

I'm not quite sure why your map pic was removed (it could be several reasons but I am unaware of specifcally why). I have alerted the mods to let you know why. Give them time to reply...it might take a bit. Thanks for your patience!

 

[tlcya]

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=159"]The Rules - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

Thanks Beach. I hate to see right fighting shut down any discussion but everyone seems to have voiced their thoughts on the matter, and viewpoints will continue to differ.

As mods, you have the ability to steer us back on track when we derail.

Thaks for all you and the others do to kep us in line.

 

[johan555]

I'm not quite sure why your map pic was removed (it could be several reasons but I am unaware of specifcally why). I have alerted the mods to let you know why. Give them time to reply...it might take a bit. Thanks for your patience!

Thanks beach
They delete posts and comments and pictures without any explanation.

 

[Confusion]

Mod message

Thanks because this whole debate that has turned into bickering over Autism/Asperger's left me clueless.

Just let it go. I would say it is okay for discussion and speculation, but when the bickering starts and voiced by non-verified professionals, the discussion stops.

I'm sure many of you have personal experiences on which you base your opinions, but there seems to be no respect for those with different viewpoints.

So, unless we get confirmation that Sigg was indeed diagnosed with Autism/Asperger's that line of discussion needs to stop. Completely derailing the thread and causing problems between members.

:tyou:

Could you please include diagnosing him as a sociopath there too? Thanks.

 

[beach]

Thanks beach
They delete posts and comments and pictures without any explanation.

Sorry! It has been really shorthanded around here the past few days, plus we have several cases that have required a LOT of mod attention, so they (we) are all spread pretty thin. Sometimes we just don't have time to PM at the moment but I am sure whoever removed it will be happy to explain when they see my request.

 

[SapphireSteel]

"I think it's all I've got within me not to just want to just burn him, and I mean burn him," Jessica's great-grandmother, Donna Moss, said Wednesday evening. "I meant literally lit him on fire. Send him to hell in a blaze of glory."

She said she has to fight the rage she feels and she knows as a Christian she should forgive.

"I'm really angry and really hurt this person has done this," she said.

Moss also fears a second person was involved, citing Sigg's surprising young age.

"My heart just goes out to his mother because I can't understand how it would have to feel to be the mother of a monster like him," Moss said.

A couple of interesting points amongst many in this article.

The first obviously is the fact that Jessica's family seem to still suspect an accomplice (as do I);

The second, that ggma has so much compassion for Mindy Sigg. She obviously perceives ARS mum as another victim. Maybe ARS was abusive to his mum too...she may have been scared of him.

I'm fairly sure the immediate family knows a little bit more about ARS and the crime than we do.

http://www.wtvm.com/story/19903905/family-wants-to-just-burn-accused-killer-of-jessica-ridgeway

:cow:

 

[nikb]

Mod message

Thanks because this whole debate that has turned into bickering over Autism/Asperger's left me clueless.

Just let it go. I would say it is okay for discussion and speculation, but when the bickering starts and voiced by non-verified professionals, the discussion stops.

I'm sure many of you have personal experiences on which you base your opinions, but there seems to be no respect for those with different viewpoints.

So, unless we get confirmation that Sigg was indeed diagnosed with Autism/Asperger's that line of discussion needs to stop. Completely derailing the thread and causing problems between members.

:tyou:

Oops sorry. I was behind and just saw this. I'll see if I need to delete anything.

 

[tlcya]

We are going to have nothing much to discuss on this case til trial I suspect. With the gag order in place and no new info to chew on, and things being shut down for discussion because of bickering, peparing myself for the crickets to chirp.

Off to lighten things up in the basement. Hope steelydan has posted some funnies recenlty. Or maybe woofie has linked some bizarre news story.

 

[D'sWifey]

I didn't comment earlier because I was deeply offended when a member was referring to ARS as Autistic. I have a five year old Autistic son and I can tell you this.. Autistic children and adults, see the world differently than we do. They see beauty when it is not apparent to others and they love harder and deeper than a "normal" human being. They do not have it in them to severely harm others. My son has shown me a whole new world through his eyes. along with the rest of the special children that I encounter often. Autism is not a disease. It is a gift IMHO. If only we as human beings could see things the way that Autism does... what a wonderful world it would be. Thank you.

 

[johan555]

Sorry! It has been really shorthanded around here the past few days, plus we have several cases that have required a LOT of mod attention, so they (we) are all spread pretty thin. Sometimes we just don't have time to PM at the moment but I am sure whoever removed it will be happy to explain when they see my request.

here is the Pic again