CO - Jessica Ridgeway, 10, Westminster, 5 Oct. 2012 - #23

[johan555]

Wouldn't that be sleuthing people unrelated to this case ... innocent bystanders.

her route is important for further research

jmo

 

[Flossie JMO]

The divorce was finalized in 2001, when Austin would have been 6 years old. Divorce that includes property and children often takes 2 years to complete, so I would guess that the divorce proceedings began 1999, when Austin was 4 years old. There were restraining orders based on domestic violence in 2001 and 2003, so I think it's highly unlikely that Austin's father was using the attached garage for working on his gokarts.

I don't think a marriage can be any more "unfriendly" than domestic violence and restraining orders:

"Parker police arrested him for domestic violence and driving under the influence of drugs. We have also confirmed, Robert Sigg and Austin’s mother, Mindy Sigg divorced in 2001. Robert Sigg’s common law wife filed restraining orders against him in 2001 and 2003 for domestic violence."

http://kdvr.com/2012/10/24/ridgeway-murder-suspect-austin-siggs-father-no-stranger-to-police/

Haven't been able to post lately, but following closely. Such a tragic brutal case, poor little Jessica

Otto your graphics are amazing, great job. On the domestic violence and restraining orders, JMO, I believe that was Robert Sigg's common law wife, not his ex wife/Austin's mother Mindy Sigg. JMO

 

[Eireannach]

BBM

He was attending college ... a technical school, like all colleges, not a university. He dropped out of high school, yet had the qualifications to attend college.

I agree with your post, but wanted to clarify that I only mentioned the High School because people think he was responsible for driving his little brother to school.

What a waste of time. Sounds like just a way for lawyers to make some extra money, and delaying the case for a month. They already know that he is going to be tried as an adult. Get on with the trial. It will probably take years before he is convicted anyway.

Frankly, I want the attorneys to exhaust all of their available options so that any attempt at an appeal based on poor representation will fail.

 

[human]

Austin is one very sick person. I don't care what neurological exception he may have, regardless of which combination of autism, dyslexia, insanity, sociopathy, hyperactivity, and whatever else, is put together. What we see in Austin is an extremely dangerous person.

ITA, but I would rather have Jessica alive as well as the untold number of other children on here who have been taken by sick individuals. I would rather not see a board like this on the net

I would like to see identifiers for issues and then treatments

When I child is determined to have issues, the whole family should come in for treatment. Yes, I was a professional who worked with families for decades. How often did I see families talk about what a brat and uncontrollable and their child was without examining their own behavior.

I was not in the treatment part, however. I could only refer people and it had to be freewill on their part. How I wish it was mandatory

Learning how to talk to your child in a respectful way goes a long way . However, I am not identifying anything that would help someone like AS, but maybe if the family had help when he was very young, it could have made a difference

 

[csziggy]

Sadly, that's about how I'd have expected it to go down. I had never been down Jessica's particular street until after, but I knew the general layout of that part of the neighborhood, and it was not a surprise to me that her abduction went unseen. It's just hard to visualize it even with Google street view or whatever. Unless you have been on the streets here, it's hard to see.

Looking at the maps of Jessica's street and Chelsea Park, I wonder if AS actually grabbed her in the park. In the close up of the park you can see there is a walkway past the play areas to a basketball court, all wide, paved so no tire tracks would show with no or a low curb at the street end. There are trees and a small rise that block the view of the basketball court from Moore Street.

Since the route JR most likely took was through the park to the next street to the west, AS could have seen her turning into the park and turned around and into the park. Once in the park she was pretty much out of sight of anyone driving down the streets. And even though there are houses whose yards back up to the park they all seem to have solid fences so there would be no view.

 

[johan555]

Looking at the maps of Jessica's street and Chelsea Park, I wonder if AS actually grabbed her in the park. In the close up of the park you can see there is a walkway past the play areas to a basketball court, all wide, paved so no tire tracks would show with no or a low curb at the street end. There are trees and a small rise that block the view of the basketball court from Moore Street.

Since the route JR most likely took was through the park to the next street to the west, AS could have seen her turning into the park and turned around and into the park. Once in the park she was pretty much out of sight of anyone driving down the streets. And even though there are houses whose yards back up to the park they all seem to have solid fences so there would be no view.

i think he grabbed her here

or here

 

[csziggy]

I wonder if she was supposed to cut thur park then why not take what looks like a direct sidewalk path behind her home to the park.?

From what I can see on Google Maps aerial view there are solid fences with no gates behind all the houses facing that walkway. I asked about that possibility threads ago and got no response.

It seems sad to me that each house seems to have a privacy fence cutting it off from their neighbors and the open areas. When I was a kid no one in our neighborhood had fences around their yards which made all the yards one big play area which spilled out into the city park next to our house. Kids miss so much by being cut off from each other - and there is less visibility so it's harder for people to watch out for their neighbors! JMO

 

[human]

From what I can see on Google Maps aerial view there are solid fences with no gates behind all the houses facing that walkway. I asked about that possibility threads ago and got no response.

It seems sad to me that each house seems to have a privacy fence cutting it off from their neighbors and the open areas. When I was a kid no one in our neighborhood had fences around their yards which made all the yards one big play area which spilled out into the city park next to our house. Kids miss so much by being cut off from each other - and there is less visibility so it's harder for people to watch out for their neighbors! JMO

I imagine they have fences to keep people who do not have good intentions out of their yards. A park unfortunately attracts people up to no good

I think the advent of so many cars has made crime more accessible as people can leave their own neighborhoods and be anonymous in other neighborhoods. Although I live in the country, a neighbor can be someone who is a mile away. In the city, people would not have a clue of who lives a mile away, generally speaking

 

[csziggy]

i think he grabbed her here

He could have grabbed her off the street but that would be a big risk. It's pretty certain that she did not make it to the school. I'm not sure where your screen capture of the dangerous area near the school is - I don't see an area like that near Witt Elementary School where Jessica attended.

Her path to Witt would have been to cross West 106th Ave. where Moore Street intersects and take a walkway across Mayfair Park. This would bring her in behind Witt so an abductor in a vehicle would have no opportunity to approach her with the vehicle.

Look at the street view of the entrance to Chelsea Park - the walkway there looks like a driveway entrance. At first I thought it was a driveway and that the basketball court was a parking area!

 

[otto]

her route is important for further research

jmo

This comment from enzeder seems to clarify her route:

"The distance from Jessica's home to Chelsea Park is point one of a mile (0.1 of 1 mile = 528 feet) so in which direction did she walk to meet up with her friend at his home?

"The walk to her friend's house is slightly more than 1,000 feet."

So she had to walk another 500+ feet to meet her friend at his home. Did Jessica continue around Moore Street, past the park to W 107th Ave, or did she cut through the park to W 107th Ave.? In the article below it says

"The route through the modest neighborhood of single-tract homes leads past Chelsea Park."

Jessica's flyer says "Missing from area of: 107th Ave/Moore Street, Westminster, CO"

Jessica's Flyer - Westminster PD's Photos on Facebook
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fb...size=960,720

 

[csziggy]

I imagine they have fences to keep people who do not have good intentions out of their yards. A park unfortunately attracts people up to no good

I think the advent of so many cars has made crime more accessible as people can leave their own neighborhoods and be anonymous in other neighborhoods. Although I live in the country, a neighbor can be someone who is a mile away. In the city, people would not have a clue of who lives a mile away, generally speaking

I think privacy fences isolate people and make it harder for people to help each other watch out for danger. When we had a crime prevention officer talk to us, he emphasized keeping our home visible from the street. Fences prevent that. (For us on our farm, visibility from the street is not possible.)

As I said, when I was growing up our house was next to a city park. Even now, my elderly parent live next to two city parks - one is developed with tennis courts and play areas, the other is mostly walking and biking trails. My parents have never had a problem with "people who do not have good intentions" entering their yards at either location. The most hassle they have is with the number of tennis balls that litter their flower beds. :lol:

Maybe I have an unrealistic idea of living in a neighborhood. I've lived in a (increasingly less) rural area for 35 years. The only fences I have are to keep my horses from wandering off. :floorlaugh:

 

[johan555]

Before leaving for school that day, Jessica called a friend who lives a few blocks away to see if he would be walking to nearby Witt Elementary School, according to police dispatch tapes.

It was 8:25 a.m. She spoke to the boy's father, who said his son would wait for her.


snip

But on that chilly day, Jessica planned to meet her friend at his home. By 8:40 a.m., she had not arrived. With only 10 minutes until the bell rang, father and son drove off to school.

http://www.denverpost.com/recommended/ci_21820092

 

[borndem]

here is the link to the pic
it is a Google Earth shot of the Moore street


http://gaddafi.freesmfhosting.com/index.php/topic,70.msg420.html#msg420

Wow, Johan!! Fantastic!! Thanks!! A big help to my visually limited imagination. It's tuff for me to visualize something like this in my head. A picture is worth 1,000 words!

 

[pinto]

I read somewhere, perhaps in connection with the Elizabeth and Lyric disappearance, that no one starts with kidnapping/disappearing people ... there's always something before that. I think something may have come up with Austin in relation to the game he played with the 11 year old girls: capture the flag, much like kick the can, I assume.

In kick the can, one person seeks and counts to 10, everyone else hides. When the seeker finds the first person, they form a team and seek the others, sometimes with a surprise coalition. ...

Well, you start with two teams in Capture the Flag, so I'm not sure how much the same. There are two flags, not just one can. I guess it's kind of similar. What was the point here?

 

[GrainneDhu]

From what I can see on Google Maps aerial view there are solid fences with no gates behind all the houses facing that walkway. I asked about that possibility threads ago and got no response.

It seems sad to me that each house seems to have a privacy fence cutting it off from their neighbors and the open areas. When I was a kid no one in our neighborhood had fences around their yards which made all the yards one big play area which spilled out into the city park next to our house. Kids miss so much by being cut off from each other - and there is less visibility so it's harder for people to watch out for their neighbors! JMO

Seems like a regional thing to me. Where I live in Iowa, the norm is still for no fences. When I've visited places like LA, San Diego or Phoenix, almost all the houses had fences. You're right, to this Iowan's eye, it does look like isolation but to the people who live there, it no doubt feels comfortable.

 

[nikb]

Well, you start with two teams in Capture the Flag, so I'm not sure how much the same. There are two flags, not just one can. I guess it's kind of similar. What was the point here?

More info than you ever wanted to know about both games, and a number of others:

http://familyfun.go.com/playtime/sports-athletic-games/tag-chase-games (there are 3 pages)

Kick the Can: http://familyfun.go.com/playtime/sports-athletic-games/tag-chase-games/kick-the-can-708085/

Capture the Flag: http://familyfun.go.com/playtime/sports-athletic-games/tag-chase-games/capture-the-flag-708076/

Probably irrelevant but an interesting aside, the Wikipedia page about Kick the Can notes "...the game of Kick the Can is becoming less and less known to each generation.... At one point in time, teenagers played Kick the Can with younger children, and the game and its variations were passed on from child to child."
[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kick_the_can"]Kick the can - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

 

[krkrjx]

I wonder if the information from the missing flyer regarding missing from 107th/Moore area is incorrect. IIRC, someone claimed to have seen Jessica that morning on 107th, but then it was reported that was a mistake. But the info could have "stuck" long enough to appear on the flyer before being refuted.

I noticed on the custody report that the "location of incident" listed Jessica's home address. This could be because that's the location where LE took the initial incident report. Or...it could be that ARS told LE he grabbed Jessica from that location. If it just means location of incident report, Jessica may have been taken from another location on her walking route. My best guesses would be in the park or along the fenced area directly across from the park. I also think that Jessica could have been walking to J's house that morning, even if they usually met at the park. That morning was not typical due to the weather; walking routes may change slightly due to that, and there were likely fewer people out and about including fewer kids walking than usual.

I do believe LE now knows exactly where the kidnapping occurred. ARS had waived his right to remain silent at the time of his arrest, so I would think LE would ask questions regarding where he first saw her, and where he made the grab, etc.

All of the above is JMO.

 

[pinto]

Seems like a regional thing to me. Where I live in Iowa, the norm is still for no fences. When I've visited places like LA, San Diego or Phoenix, almost all the houses had fences. You're right, to this Iowan's eye, it does look like isolation but to the people who live there, it no doubt feels comfortable.

Some of that is due to the locale: a lot of swimming pools in LA, SD, PHX, and big fences are safety necessities. There is also the issue of keeping dogs in and keeping coyotes out, etc etc. I agree that it looks nicer w/o fences, and my neighborhood doesn't even allow them, but good fences do make good neighbors!

 

[borndem]

There appear to be tall fences where I wrote "home", but that is also clearly visible from the houses on the other side of the street. Further down, just at the start of the park, there are also tall fences and there is nothing on the opposite side of the street.

Otto, that's the same area I mentioned as well -- there are no houses on either side of the street -- just the area of the park before the entrance, and two fenced-in backyard areas on the opposite side (her side). I've never been in the area, other than a google maps "walk down the street," but that area is the most deserted... the fence on her side of the street, and the grassy area where the Chelsea Park sign is, just before and at the park entrance. In the google map I used, there is not a sidewalk on her side of the street.

Johan's idea is also a good one as well -- it could have happened on 107th Avenue on the other side of the park...

I wonder if ARS told them exactly where he accosted or enticed her... I wonder if we'll ever know...

 

[KaaBoom]

Frankly, I want the attorneys to exhaust all of their available options so that any attempt at an appeal based on poor representation will fail.

The question is how much tax money do you want to spend on trials like this?

Murder trials used to take a few days to complete. Even capital murder. Appeals could be wrapped up in a few months and an execution could be completed in less then a year after the crime was committed.

Now the process takes years just to get to trail. The appeals last for decades, and usually the convicted murderer dies of natural causes before he is even executed. Whats the point?

I'm all for people getting a fair and speedy trail. But this just seems to me to be a way for judges and lawyers to milk the system.

Siggs isn't even up for capital punishment, and his trial probably won't even start for another two or three years. Something is wrong with the system IMHO.