CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #14 *ARREST*

[Noharg]

I hoped I would wake up to hear of another arrest(s). It will be interesting to see how that plays out over Christmas holiday. I doubt the holiday will stop this diligent LE team.

 

[Marli61]

Good Morning. I heard back from Patrick Nelson's wife. He said all his news crew knows is the same thing we know. They don't know when the temp custody hearing was actually filed, only that it is set for Dec 27. He said they are still working to find that out.

 

[jaspermac]

Someone mentioned KB’s Pinterest board. I took a look.

One month ago she created two new boards; Holidays & Hair and Makeup. The holiday board was full of pretty Christmas trees and decorations. To me, it appears like she was happy about the upcoming holidays and decorating.

She also has a Quotes board that was created a year ago. The majority of it is spiritual/ religious quotes.

The last pin on that board is haunting, but it’s unknown when she pinned it.

“Sometimes the bad things that happen in our lives puts us directly on the path of the best things that will ever happen to us”

That is the saddest thing ever, but she was religious so hopefully the end of it is true from a spiritual perspective.. I'm not so it just feels sad to me.

 

[Owutatangledweb]

And I wondered if the baby was in the car, and that’s why PF’s mom was handcuffed... one of the officers kept looking into the car (looking at the baby, maybe?)

In one of the videos, I swear I saw a third person walking away from the mothers car and I could not tell if the person was carrying the child or was holding hands cuffed in front. A thin person who could have been female.

 

[PrairieWind]

Maybe PF will tell LE where Kelsey’s body is located, to avoid the death penalty (if it’s even on the table). I know it hasn’t been used in CO for 40 years, and might not be used again, but the death penalty would make PF’s life in prison, if convicted or no plea, much more difficult. Let’s see what PF does now or possibly says. I have a feeling he’s not the most cooperative person. I also wonder how he/whomever chose to dispose of Kelsey’s body. PF might not be willing to share that, or much of anything else. We’ve all seen him go into cold stare, get off my property, I’m not saying anything, shutdown mode.

As you noted, since the death penalty isn’t really used in Colorado it doesn’t give the state much leverage. Sadly, there isn’t much incentive for PF to cooperate at this time.

 

[CuriousCricket]

During an interview on Dec. 13, Loew, who is often interviewed on legal matters, seemed unusually nervous and uncomfortable. He answered most questions by saying he didn't know, couldn't answer or couldn't talk about the case.

Does this sound to you as though the client was as uncooperative with his attorney as he was with LE?

 

[Charlot123]

BBM. That's actually not really true. The best interest of the child is the standard in virtually every state in the nation when it comes to child custody determinations. Kids are removed in the context of family law cases due to the suspicion that they might've committed a crime, depending on what it is, frequently.

Kids are removed from parents every day in this nation after they've been arrested but not yet convicted. Because the parent is not able to care for them.

However, parental rights cannot be terminated altogether based on suspicion alone.

Of course in the absence of an arrest, without an on-going custody battle that predated a possible crime, and a party to that case able to litigate, OR in the absence of signs of child endangerment, parents suspected of a crime are going to retain custody. Like Josh Powell.

But we aren't talking about that kind of scenario. PF hasn't been merely accused. He's been arrested and not able to care for his child. So that's different.

That being said, parents who have been arrested for murder don't automatically lose the right to determine who their child will live with. In numerous cases we've seen them allowed to make major decisions about placement or at least to have their wishes strongly considered.

That's why I was fairly surprised by the announcement that the baby would go with Kelsey's family. Because while LE might want that to happen, as well as CPS, the court is going to make the determination. And unless he's deemed unfit, PF may play a part in that decision.

Moreover, who is able to care and provide financially for the child will be important as well as who the child is bonded with. They like to keep status quo. So if she can care for the baby, the court may consider PF's mother first.

Like you, all of this troubles me. Because it is terrible that at the worst moment of their lives, the last thing they have to cling to is often denied to families of murder victims.

In addition, as I stated before, I've seen the families of defendants acting in a punitive and cruel manner to the victim's family when it comes to contact with the child. And that's not good for the child either.

Finally, as I said, I'm biased against the families of defendants. As unfair as that can be. By I've seen too many families of murder defendants that are enmeshed enablers and otherwise dysfunctional. Jason Young's family. josh powell's family. Scott Peterson's family. Chris Coleman's family. Casey Anthony's family. CW's family. Drew Peterson's family. Michelle Parker's ex's family. And on and on and on.

(@gitana1, I noticed that I usually fall into "innocent until proven guilty" group here. Someone has to). But about the families of the defendants.

There are two sides here. I understand their need to tell the world that their relative, the way they know him, is a good person. I can not blame them for it. It is human. From the social standpoint, it is also very ancient tribal mentality, from thousands of years ago, the times when whatever judgment existed, was meted out inside the tribe, and to the outside world, the tribe presented as one cohesive group. I see it sometimes in crime cases, and it was especially obvious in one case of intra-group shooting, when the group locked in all their grief and presented as almost blank to the world, "we'll deal with it", they posted.

<modsnipped sleuthing family social media>

I wonder if the perpetrators often show some weaknesses as the children (the youngest one, the shy one, the sickest one, some congenital defects, maybe even the most abused inside the family?) that generate this protective attitude when something happens? Intra-family dynamic would be interesting to trace, but most families don't allow it, sadly.

 

[Gardener1850]

Someone mentioned KB’s Pinterest board. I took a look.

One month ago she created two new boards; Holidays & Hair and Makeup. The holiday board was full of pretty Christmas trees and decorations. To me, it appears like she was happy about the upcoming holidays and decorating.

She also has a Quotes board that was created a year ago. The majority of it is spiritual/ religious quotes.

The last pin on that board is haunting, but it’s unknown when she pinned it.

“Sometimes the bad things that happen in our lives puts us directly on the path of the best things that will ever happen to us”

I don't put much meaning into quotes pinned but if that last pinned quote was over a year ago it might have been about the birth of her daughter. A lot of women who get pregnant unexpectedly and have the baby describe feeling that way-- that although the situation was not ideal their children are the best things that ever happened to them. JMO.

 

[CuriousCricket]

From that bolded phrase, Kelsey was not happy with her life.
To mention protection, I wonder if PF was aggressive/violent towards her (removing a person for your protection).
I think, she seems to be implying, that not living with him is a good thing (God removing a person).
MOO.

Doesn't it also sound as though PF broke up with her? That the removal of the person from her life was not by her own actions?

Wonder if they'd been doing the break up, get back together thing for awhile?

 

[Noharg]

Motive? Custody? IMO, it had to do with breakup which led to heated (PF got heated bc a decision was made that was not his decision) custody/visitation discussion.
JMO

 

[Charlot123]

I guess the solicitation for murder remains a complete mystery - no one knows who might be in Idaho.

When I was thinking of what it stood for, I suddenly thought, we don't even know if it was murder of Kelsey. Maybe PF wanted to murder someone close to her, her family member? I assume "solicitation of murder" means "murder of Kelsey", but even this has not been clearly spelled out, yet.

 

[Kadie]

I agree and I would think they would file an emergency motion since both parents are not able to care for the baby, however if no one is disputing the arrangement made by child protective services it may not be necessary. Court dates seem to be scheduled out 2 months for parenting time issues in Colorado. IMO it's probable if what her aunt said was true that she had called off the engagement (either KB or PF) petitioned the court 2 months ago.

If police took K into protective custody, then I would think that CPS/DHS filed a removal petition from PF and the Court granted DHS care, custody and supervision of K. In Michigan (where I am from) an emergency hearing has to be held within 24 hours of the filing. Then within 5 days another hearing is held. If the child is under the supervision of DHS, no one can dispute custody and is up to the Department to determine where the child is placed. That can be with a non-respondent parent, relative caregiver or foster home.

 

[PommyMommy]

That seems to be the only report that they found the phone. No other stations are saying that yet. Since the statement was made by a reporter speaking live on the air, I think it was a poorly worded statement. At the presser I got the impression they knew her phone was located in Idaho but have not found it yet. I think they will be searching for the phone where it last pinged. JMO.

I agree and regret posting the same video last night. The way the reporter framed it - that Fox talked to police and so on - sounded entirely credible but there's just no way this hasn't made headlines everywhere if it is true.
MOO

 

[Gardener1850]

As you noted, since the death penalty isn’t really used in Colorado it doesn’t give the state much leverage. Sadly, there isn’t much incentive for PF to cooperate at this time.

I wonder if he would cooperate and tell where the body is in exchange for not charging a possible co-conspirator? Does LE ever make that kind of deal? I think his partner in crime may be someone close to him. JMO.

 

[AgeofAquaruis]

I can’t “feel” for his family yet - I want to know who helped plan and cover up for him but I respect this option for those that do JMO

Smearing Kelsey. Can't unsee all the wonderful father vs Unbalanced, substance abuser, took off in the past blabla,bla. Victim blaming.

 

[enelram]

^^^ Seems to me PF was a loser for a 32 yr. old guy. Still lived
on mommy's farm. Had no visible means of a reliable job
or career path. Friends say he was abusive to his horses.
Played at being a cowboy wannabee at rodeos. And the biggest
clue that he was a big loser- Kelsey's pinterest quotes. It's
becoming more and more clear, this guy was a huge JERK!!

 

[Charlot123]

Motive? Custody? IMO, it had to do with breakup which led to heated (PF got heated bc a decision was made that was not his decision) custody/visitation discussion.
JMO

Has to be the kid because I see no common property to divide. And no marriage to dissolve. Really, something that should have been sorted out by the family lawyer at a minimal cost. Instead, there is a humongously expensive criminal lawyer.

Aside from immorality of the situation, there is also monumental stupidity that is shocking, too.

 

[bestill]

I wonder if he would cooperate and tell where the body is in exchange for not charging a possible co-conspirator? Does LE ever make that kind of deal? I think his partner in crime may be someone close to him. JMO.

I wonder if he would cooperate and tell where she is if there will be some type of visitation arrangement for him and his daughter. I think that's the leverage that the state has right now. IMO

 

[Kadie]

Lets hope that both families can work together so that no matter who gets custody, the child has access to everyone. Lots of ground rules have to be established but if everyone holds the best interest of the child as the most important thing then it can be done. His family, i feel for them too. I am sure it is beyond their comprehension that he could have done this. I am sure they are struggling with what to believe, also given the fact they aren't being given any evidence to help them process all of this. These cases can damage everyone and create discord in families.

In Michigan if it's proven that Father murdered Mother it is an automatic termination of parental rights.

 

[Irmese]

https://www-m.cnn.com/2018/12/21/us/kelsey-berreth-colorado-missing-mom/index.html?r=https://www.google.com/

This excerpt:

“We encourage law enforcement to take whatever steps it deems necessary to find Kelsey Berreth and to be able to exclude Patrick Frazee as a possible suspect in this missing person investigation," the attorney said. "Mr. Frazee will continue not to participate in any interviews with the media and instead focus on parenting the child he shares with Ms. Berreth."

Excuse me while I pick my jaw up off the ground.

That was his first lawyer. The public defender representing him now did not say that.