CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #15 *ARREST*

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susiQ said:
So his solution was? a family of two? If he wanted out, why not just walk away? Did he think single parenthood was an easier life? That's why I tend to lean on him having a "dish" on the side. Perhaps someone that had what he needed, money or possibly a home/hobby farm. Maybe he felt trapped that he couldn't get out of living with his mother any other way. KB wanted a commitment of marriage not just and everlasting engagement. I think deep down KB knew the relationship was going nowhere but was "hanging in". Maybe she just wasn't quite ready to let down the curtain and expose that the relationship had failed. Was taking time to think things through.
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I don't rule out a side dish, as we're calling it tonight. :) We don't have any evidence so far of another woman, but of course it's possible.

I think he didn't want to deal with her AT ALL anymore - no shared custody, no lingering engagement, no "when are you going to move out of your mom's place" conversation, no Kelsey.

I realize most people would simply break up. But that's not what happened. She's dead, and from the charges, he planned for murder.

He killed her, imo, and I think it was out of disinterest in her completely. She didn't fit in (I'm guessing), she wasn't leaving and would never completely leave even if they broke up - and he wanted to be rid of her.

So, he got rid of her and didn't even bother faking concern.

jmo
 
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MsBetsy said:
What exactly was their "parenting schedule?" Do we know? Was there a visitation order? As far as I know, custody was not established. Neither one had primary physical custody. Maybe one of them wanted sole custody, which would mean the other would only have visitation. Maybe they would have tried for joint custody, and split the time 50/50. Either way, it's not easy and each parent has to make sacrifices. If both wanted primary custody, they may have faced a long, bitter custody battle.
At the time of her death, neither one had primary custody. What if Kelsey wanted to make plans to take the baby to see her family for a holiday and he wanted the baby to be with his family? What if he wanted to take the baby somewhere for her birthday and Kelsey also wanted to do something special on that day with her daughter?

As far as dating is concerned, things can get very difficult when one parent starts dating someone else. The other parent may get very jealous that someone else is spending time with their child.
If they had broken up there would have been huge changes, in my opinion, especially if they both wanted different things, concerning the child.
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I see what all you are saying but to me IMO it is quite trivial. BUT you could be correct with how PK was thinking. Especially if he was the controlling type. <modsnip> Ugh I feel like he is much more sinister than what might be thought. MOO
 
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v0x said:
I’m seeing it being reported both ways. Hmmm... maybe a lawyer here can explain.
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I’m thinking it may be legal semantics with the whole “innocent until proven guilty” thing. You can’t say for sure he’s a murderer without proof. Right? I’m not a lawyer, I’m a computer programmer. Just trying to apply logic. Lol
 
v0x said:
I’m seeing it being reported both ways. Hmmm... maybe a lawyer here can explain.
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It does seem to be being reported both ways:

Qmfr:

margarita25 said:
(Quotes for reference / trying to keep up (from a distance):

“Woodland Park Police Chief Miles De Young said during a news conference Friday morning that Frazee, 32, has been arrested on suspicion of first-degree murder in connection with her death.

De Young said that following numerous interviews over the past several weeks, investigators had gathered enough information to file for an arrest warrant. Although police have still not found her body, the chief said that they do not consider her to still be alive.“

Patrick Frazee, fiancé of missing Colorado mom Kelsey Berreth, arrested and booked in her murder

—-

“"We finally received enough information to implicate Patrick in his involvement in Kelsey's death," de Young said.
De Young didn't speak to a motive. He said the investigation ongoing and the work is "just beginning."
"I can tell you we understand you demand a full accounting of why this has happened, and nothing is more important to all of us than determining the circumstances surrounding Kelsey's murder and bringing Kelsey and her family justice," de Young said.

"I can tell you we understand you demand a full accounting of why this has happened, and nothing is more important to all of us than determining the circumstances surrounding Kelsey's murder and bringing Kelsey and her family justice," de Young said.

Fiancé of missing Colorado mother Kelsey Berreth arrested, charged with murder
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It took me forever to get caught up again!!

I have a theory, or something close to it...

I think K was happy enough but wanted more. She wanted the happily ever after. I could be wrong but I think most of the angsty Pinterest pins were pre-PF.

I have a gorgeous 28 yr old daughter. She is a pharmacist. She’s still single. Super shy. She lives about 90 minutes away. We talk or text almost every day. Sometimes many times a day.

I could see (unfortunately, pretty easily) her connecting with a guy who seemed to need her.

I could also see that creating a horrible dynamic. She’d appear to hold all the cards.

I’m counting on you telling me which pieces sound too far off.

I don’t believe there was a fight at all. I don’t think she was misleading her mom. I believe that K thought they were going to have dinner together and get a Christmas tree.

I think pretty much everything I’ve heard that PF said to Mom were untrue. No breakup - no trip to see grandma in Soap Lake. No plan to hand over baby.

If PF didn’t marry K - given time - K would have left him. If she left him, one could guess, she would want to take the baby and move closer to family.

It would have meant somewhere between ... what? $500 and $800 per month in child support...?

I think someone PF paid could have followed her to the store where the person could have switched vehicles with PF. Then followed her home using PF’s truck. Parked it behind her cars, blocking her in. Went in, had a gun with a silencer. Moved her and her purse into something that looked baby related and put her in the bed of the truck. Then got baby and put her into the cab.

Met PF somewhere and moved K and purse into the other vehicle. PF gets in his truck and drives to his house for the holiday dinner....

I think her purse, phone and remains are all in close proximity to each other...

Years ago I was in a home where a young man had killed himself with a gun. Tiny spots were everywhere.
 
v0x said:
I’m thinking it may be legal semantics with the whole “innocent until proven guilty” thing. You can’t say for sure he’s a murderer without proof. Right? I’m not a lawyer, I’m a computer programmer. Just trying to apply logic. Lol
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I think you’re right.
 
Condolences to KB's family. I know when someone is missing this long that even the families suspect that they are deceased. But once LE arrests a suspect even though the body has not been found, it just takes away that little bit of hope that they might have still been clinging to. I hope that they will get full custody of the baby and draw comfort from watching her grow up.
 
MassGuy said:
It’s effectively the same thing.

They don’t take saying that lightly.

Even if there are indications that someone is dead, they will not come out and say it, until it is all but confirmed.

They have strong evidence that she is dead, despite the lack of a body.
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They definitely don't say that lightly, we know how often it’s just the opposite as far as them saying they still hope and believe a victim is still alive (Mollie, Hania, Jayme...).

Here’s an example of going to the lengths to make such a strong statement:

Longmont police believe Rita Gutierrez-Garcia is dead, have ID'd 'person of interest' )
 
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JulieAnne said:
It took me forever to get caught up again!!

I have a theory, or something close to it...

I think K was happy enough but wanted more. She wanted the happily ever after. I could be wrong but I think most of the angsty Pinterest pins were pre-PF.

I have a gorgeous 28 yr old daughter. She is a pharmacist. She’s still single. Super shy. She lives about 90 minutes away. We talk or text almost every day. Sometimes many times a day.

I could see (unfortunately, pretty easily) her connecting with a guy who seemed to need her.

I could also see that creating a horrible dynamic. She’d appear to hold all the cards.

I’m counting on you telling me which pieces sound too far off.

I don’t believe there was a fight at all. I don’t think she was misleading her mom. I believe that K thought they were going to have dinner together and get a Christmas tree.

I think pretty much everything I’ve heard that PF said to Mom were untrue. No breakup - no trip to see grandma in Soap Lake. No plan to hand over baby.

If PF didn’t marry K - given time - K would have left him. If she left him, one could guess, she would want to take the baby and move closer to family.

It would have meant somewhere between ... what? $500 and $800 per month in child support...?

I think someone PF paid could have followed her to the store where the person could have switched vehicles with PF. Then followed her home using PF’s truck. Parked it behind her cars, blocking her in. Went in, had a gun with a silencer. Moved her and her purse into something that looked baby related and put her in the bed of the truck. Then got baby and put her into the cab.

Met PF somewhere and moved K and purse into the other vehicle. PF gets in his truck and drives to his house for the holiday dinner....

I think her purse, phone and remains are all in close proximity to each other...

Years ago I was in a home where a young man had killed himself with a gun. Tiny spots were everywhere.
Click to expand...
Narcissists always look for someone who will take care of them. Hope your daughter will find a nice guy. She sounds like a wonderful person. You could be right, except I think she was strangled so there would be no loud noises. Even if LE is saying Ricky Weaver isn't the perp, that doesn't mean it's true. That guy had been in jail in May for attempted strangulation. I think he put her into the shower, dismembered her, put her in an ice chest and took her body to Idaho or somewhere in between. PF gave him the code to her phone to ping it in Idaho, on the way to her grandmothers. Prior to leaving, he returned the truck and saws to PF and transferred KB into his truck.
 
Inthedetails said:
I don't rule out a side dish, as we're calling it tonight. :) We don't have any evidence so far of another woman, but of course it's possible.

I think he didn't want to deal with her AT ALL anymore - no shared custody, no lingering engagement, no "when are you going to move out of your mom's place" conversation, no Kelsey.

I realize most people would simply break up. But that's not what happened. She's dead, and from the charges, he planned for murder.

He killed her, imo, and I think it was out of disinterest in her completely. She didn't fit in (I'm guessing), she wasn't leaving and would never completely leave even if they broke up - and he wanted to be rid of her.

So, he got rid of her and didn't even bother faking concern.

jmo
Click to expand...
You could be right. We're all just trying to make sense out of something utterly senseless. Perhaps time will shed a little more light on his motive for doing the unspeakable.
 
(Slightly o/t, did you guys see that 2 hour Dateline recently about Murder Solicitation/“Hitmen for Hire”? Apparently there’s a market for it. One guy wanted his pregnant mistress/girlfriend killed iirc...I think another one wanted his wife killed, same old story...)

(ETA: Wow I just remembered something from this episode, the phone recordings, how aaaanxious many of them were for these jobs to get done, repeatedly calling the hit man, “Did you do it yet? Did you do it yet? I need this done now, hurry up!”)

(ETA: the victims were devastated to put it mildly to learn they were on a “hit list”)
 
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NanZDrew said:
Narcissists always look for someone who will take care of them. Hope your daughter will find a nice guy. She sounds like a wonderful person. You could be right, except I think she was strangled so there would be no loud noises. Even if LE is saying Ricky Weaver isn't the perp, that doesn't mean it's true. That guy had been in jail in May for attempted strangulation. I think he put her into the shower, dismembered her, put her in an ice chest and took her body to Idaho or somewhere in between. PF gave him the code to her phone to ping it in Idaho, on the way to her grandmothers. Prior to leaving, he returned the truck and saws to PF and transferred KB into his truck.
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Who had the baby?
 
margarita25 said:
(Slightly o/t, did you guys see that 2 hour Dateline a while back about murdered solication/killers for hire? Apparently there’s a market for it.)
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I was going to mention that earlier. It was actually 48 Hours if I recall.

It appears to have been a scam that many people fell for.

People would contact a particular hitman service on the dark web, and end up losing a ton of money, as this organization didn’t actually perform that “service.”

Scary that there are so many people out there that want to kill people.

One of the cases featured in that episode, involved a guy who tried to hire a hitman to kill his wife.

He ended up doing it himself, but his payment to that hitman website did him in.
 
Article updated:
Idaho authorities announce evidence found in Kelsey Berreth case

Authorities in Idaho are reporting they aided in finding evidence tied to the suspected murder of a Woodland Park mother.

The body of Kelsey Berreth has yet to be found but authorities have arrested her fiance, Patrick Frazee, on first-degree murder charges. On Saturday, the Twin Falls Police Department announced they were contacted by the FBI on Dec. 15 for help in the investigation.

The Twin Falls County Sheriff's Office and the Twin Falls Police Department reportedly worked with the FBI and Colorado Bureau of Investigations to prepare and serve several search warrants as well as process some items of evidence. The Twin Falls Police Department did not elaborate on what kind of evidence was found.
 
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