CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #19 *ARREST*

[susiQ]

Before the prior thread closed, someone posted about PF likely not wanting to take KB to his rodeos as he was probably more interested in the rodeo groupies. I was unable to post my response so I will post my thoughts now:

PF has been doing rodeos for a long time and he didn't seem to be into the groupies enough or why would he go to a dating site on-line to find someone like KB, so different from himself? I have no doubt he would take some pleasure showing up at a rodeo having a pilot who has attained her commercial license dangling off his arm if only to make himself look good. Like hey, look who I snagged. Kelsey WAS quite a "catch". I think what drew KB to him was their mutual love of horses even if he really didn't love them or respect them as we've heard. By now, we all know how he lies and it's those lies that deceived her in the beginning. She likely began seeing through them and was biding time until she knew how to break it to her family and figure out where to go from here. He suspected what was coming. A narcissist hates being "discovered" and will become violent when rejected. I think he was beginning to feel the rejection and her discontent with how things were going. He feared what could happen re: custody and started ruminating on how to eliminate the problem. Cold and calculated, setting up KB as the odd duck, habitually disappearing, letting people think she was unstable, etc. etc. For a narcissist lying/deceiving others is in the blood. So is self preservation.

 

[Charlot123]

I think that if one of them was willing to move in order to pursue new opportunities, it was Kelsey.

The nature of her job would have allowed for this, as there are airports everywhere.

She could have moved back to Washington, and enjoyed much of the same success that she had in Colorado.

Hell, she had already moved a great distance already, simply to further a relationship with someone she apparently met online.

PF, not so much.

His roots seem to run deep in the area, and ranchers don’t enjoy the same mobility that people in other careers do.

I also don’t think he would have moved, even if he could.

For whatever reason, Kelsey was in the way.

Probably custody related.

Then custody, probably related to potential move.

Plus the trait, the only trait, that I view as linking him to CW and SP.

All three view women as interchangeable.

 

[chinablue1]

I think if someone is capable of murder, they probably don't have a great history or track record in the dating scene.I think PF had a spiel a mile long for women, and sooner or later they were on to him, so let's try out of state.JMO

 

[MassGuy]

Then custody, probably related to potential movement.

And the trait, the only trait, that I view as linking him to CW and SP.

All three view women as interchangeable.

You very well may be right there.

This isn’t directed at you, but it reminded me of a point I wanted to make about PF being compared to CW.

Many of us followed the Watts case very closely, and the memory of that is still fresh in our minds.

Now we have another murder case that also occurred in Colorado.

Both involved young, good-looking women.

Both involved evil men.

But these crimes are not the same. And these killers are not the same.

Psychologically, these are two very different types of killers.

Chris Watts was a sociopathic narcissist, who wanted a fresh start and a new life.

His entire existence was a carefully crafted facade.

He was in a completely separate category from your average murderer (family annihilator).

What makes those guys tick, is not what makes most other killers tick.

PF may have some similarities to CW, but his crime is much more common.

Likewise, he is much more common, as murderers go.

Because of this, I think when all is said and done, we will have a motive that we can wrap our heads around a lot better.

We just shouldn’t make the mistake of seeing them as the same person.

Not if we want to truly understand what happened.

 

[scdiv]

I suspect PF may have shown more signs of personality flags - temper, anger, aggression, hostility, etc. than a Chris Watts.

 

[susiQ]

You very well may be right there.

This isn’t directed at you, but it reminded me of a point I wanted to make about PF being compared to CW.

Many of us followed the Watts case very closely, and the memory of that is still fresh in our minds.

Now we have another murder case that also occurred in Colorado.

Both involved young, good-looking women.

Both involved evil men.

But these crimes are not the same. And these killers are not the same.

Psychologically, these are two very different types of killers.

Chris Watts was a sociopathic narcissist, who wanted a fresh start and a new life.

His entire existence was a carefully crafted facade.

He was in a completely separate category from your average murderer (family annihilator).

What makes those guys tick, is not what makes most other killers tick.

PF may have some similarities to CW, but his crime is much more common.

Likewise, he is much more common, as murderers go.

Because of this, I think when all is said and done, we will have a motive that we can wrap our heads around a lot better.

We just shouldn’t make the mistake of seeing them as the same person.

Not if we want to truly understand what happened.

I absolutely agree. They are a different breed. I cannot get my head around CW. I couldn't even follow that case closely because of the added horror of what he did to his beautiful little girls. But, I do believe PF had also moved on like CW and needed to clear the path so he could "nurture" (deceive) his next victim without any obstacles, that being KB who could potentially take his little girl away from him by moving closer to her work or family.
I'm anxious now to know if the "breaking news" gossip is in fact true. Once a narcissist is no longer able to keep up the facade and loses the love and attention of his/her partner he/she needs to find new "supply", so they start love bombing the next victim which results in the victim putting this jerk on a pedestal. It never lasts too long. Of course, all the hate and anger is directed at the previous victim for having finally seen through the lies.

 

[MassGuy]

I suspect PF may have shown more signs of personality flags - temper, anger, aggression, hostility, etc. than a Chris Watts.

Yeah. I fully expect him to have exhibited warning signs, in addition to those animal abuse anecdotes.

No “cold, flat affect” here.

 

[cluciano63]

We don’t know much about PF at all really, as far as what he would be like in Kelsey’s eyes. She was with him for over two years, a significant relationship. Whether she was mulling over moving nearer to her family, or something, or considering a job transfer, etc obviously there a reason for PF to come to the conclusion, allegedly, that in order to keep what he wanted (the baby imo)she had to be out of the picture forever. And I doubt it was as simple as another woman, couples split all the time and still share kids.

I think we will be waiting until trial to get an idea of what really happened...maybe not even then if he never talks. It may all be theory as far as the “why” that we hear in court.

Jmo

 

[susiQ]

If my hunch is correct, and I'm not saying it is, the news that was not able to be reported on today could very well be linked to the sealed arrest warrant where it was stated that it needed to remain sealed to protect certain individuals and I'm guessing the integrity of the investigation. Will they be able to keep it sealed past Dec 31st?

 

[susiQ]

We don’t know much about PF at all really, as far as what he would be like in Kelsey’s eyes. She was with him for over two years, a significant relationship. Whether she was mulling over moving nearer to her family, or something, or considering a job transfer, etc obviously there a reason for PF to come to the conclusion, allegedly, that in order to keep what he wanted (the baby imo)she had to be out of the picture forever. And I doubt it was as simple as another woman, couples split all the time and still share kids.

I think we will be waiting until trial to get an idea of what really happened...maybe not even then if he never talks. It may all be theory as far as the “why” that we hear in court.

Jmo

Yes, normal people don't act this way but a narcissist will. It's never just as simple as another woman. It's about lying/deceiving, being caught out as a liar and deceiver, losing the respect of the SO, which then makes them go elsewhere to find what they feed on. These relationships never last long. Two years is NOT long. My ex DIL pulled it off for 3 whole years before she started messing around. I know of another narcissist through a very close friend who when the wife could no longer take living in fear she initiated separation and moved out with her little ones. He threatened to kill himself if she didn't come back. She didn't because for weeks before leaving he knew she was thinking about it, he kept a large kitchen knife under the bed pillow whispering how he could use it "anytime". So, what does he do when he knows his gig is up. He commits suicide in the worst possible way, doing tens of thousands of dollars worth of damage to the marital home hoping that his soon to be ex-wife would find him. Disgusting. What a legacy he left for his children. Just as there are different types of normal people, there are a variety of narcissists too.

 

[susiQ]

Just want to add, his wife did not find him. He was a principal at a school and when he didn't show up, they called local police to do the wellness check. Thank goodness for the young woman, sorry for the police officers, two of whom I know well. One was my late son's best friend. When his wife took their children to school after all this transpired she felt like a pariah. All the parents and grandparents saying what a wonderful man he was, active in the community and charitable organizations, how could this happen. My friend had the wits to go and interject herself into some of these conversations to remind them, they have no idea what goes on behind closed doors. So few of us really do.

 

[jillianelaine]

I absolutely agree. They are a different breed. I cannot get my head around CW. I couldn't even follow that case closely because of the added horror of what he did to his beautiful little girls. But, I do believe PF had also moved on like CW and needed to clear the path so he could "nurture" (deceive) his next victim without any obstacles, that being KB who could potentially take his little girl away from him by moving closer to her work or family.
I'm anxious now to know if the "breaking news" gossip is in fact true. Once a narcissist is no longer able to keep up the facade and loses the love and attention of his/her partner he/she needs to find new "supply", so they start love bombing the next victim which results in the victim putting this jerk on a pedestal. It never lasts too long. Of course, all the hate and anger is directed at the previous victim for having finally seen through the lies.

I wonder if one of the differences between them was that CW was far more comfortable living with a woman, and PF, living on his own. I think in the former situation, it became necessary to kill (in his mind), to move on. In the latter, it seems he didn't have to eliminate someone to be with someone else. Internet flings in and of themselves might suffice.

 

[TexLil]

My understanding is that cameras will be allowed in the courtroom Monday... Does anyone know what time the proceeding starts and where we can watch? Thank you!

 

[MassGuy]

My understanding is that cameras will be allowed in courtroom Monday... Does anyone know what time the proceeding starts and where we can watch? Thank you!

The hearing will be at 8:30am local time on Monday.

Just log on here, you’ll have no shortage of links.

@PommyMommy and her team will be all over it.

 

[gitana1]

It's getting bizarre in here.

So nothing new, folks? We've got a hearing Monday but nothing came out from Idaho yet, I take it?

 

[justpeachy22]

I want them to find kb’s body. Makes me so sad to know she’s still out there somewhere. My guess is it’s close - 30 miles outside of his town, though I'm very familiar with the area and they'll need him to talk. PF doesn't seem too intelligent so I don't think he put much thought behind where he put her as some are suggesting.

The neighbor never heard any KB struggle on thanksgiving (really?!) Neighbor was home during the time she saw pf truck at the condo for 30 min, correct? And no witness to him loading up his truck? hmm.

My hunch is that KB did not have any plans to move from the area or switch jobs; it’s been stated that she came from a religious family, that she may have been reserved, so she likely was really trying to make it work and wait for him and marriage. Do we know if KB had tried to live at the ranch with he and his mother when she first moved to CO? I think PF deceived KB from the very beginning about plans to move out together and grow a life together. He may have felt a lot of inadequacy and anger about her reaction to that. And then she switched from being a barista to having a much bigger job - something that may have caught he and his mother off guard. And then she got pregnant and PF and his mother found themselves raising/caring for a baby in a non-traditional set-up. I'm sure they must've felt resentment over that and likely felt out of control - especially if his mom was pressuring him to just write this one off. I don't think this story went the way PF had wanted it to. All just thoughts. Correct me if too much speculation.

 

[MassGuy]

I want them to find kb’s body. Makes me so sad to know she’s still out there somewhere. My guess is it’s close - 30 miles outside of his town, though I'm very familiar with the area and they'll need him to talk. PF doesn't seem too intelligent so I don't think he put much thought behind where he put her as some are suggesting.

The neighbor never heard any KB struggle on thanksgiving (really?!) Neighbor was home during the time she saw pf truck at the condo for 30 min, correct? And no witness to him loading up his truck? hmm.

My hunch is that KB did not have any plans to move from the area or switch jobs; it’s been stated that she came from a religious family, that she may have been reserved, so she likely was really trying to make it work and wait for him and marriage. Do we know if KB had tried to live at the ranch with he and his mother when she first moved to CO? I think PF deceived KB from the very beginning about plans to move out together and grow a life together. He may have felt a lot of inadequacy and anger about her reaction to that. And then she switched from being a barista to having a much bigger job - something that may have caught he and his mother off guard. And then she got pregnant and PF and his mother found themselves raising/caring for a baby in a non-traditional set-up. I'm sure they must've felt resentment over that and likely felt out of control - especially if his mom was pressuring him to just write this one off. I don't think this story went the way PF had wanted it to. All just thoughts. Correct me if too much speculation.

I’m not surprised that no one saw or heard anything, it was a holiday weekend after all.

When he did remove her body from that house, I’m sure it was under the cover of darkness.

I too believe she’s likely close. I think he’s the only one who knows where she is, and he isn’t about to talk.

I’m curious as to what the trigger was, as if she had plans to move (possible custodial trigger), we certainly haven’t heard anything to that effect.

It’ll remain a mystery for now.

 

[gitana1]

I want them to find kb’s body. Makes me so sad to know she’s still out there somewhere. My guess is it’s close - 30 miles outside of his town, though I'm very familiar with the area and they'll need him to talk. PF doesn't seem too intelligent so I don't think he put much thought behind where he put her as some are suggesting.

The neighbor never heard any KB struggle on thanksgiving (really?!) Neighbor was home during the time she saw pf truck at the condo for 30 min, correct? And no witness to him loading up his truck? hmm.

My hunch is that KB did not have any plans to move from the area or switch jobs; it’s been stated that she came from a religious family, that she may have been reserved, so she likely was really trying to make it work and wait for him and marriage. Do we know if KB had tried to live at the ranch with he and his mother when she first moved to CO? I think PF deceived KB from the very beginning about plans to move out together and grow a life together. He may have felt a lot of inadequacy and anger about her reaction to that. And then she switched from being a barista to having a much bigger job - something that may have caught he and his mother off guard. And then she got pregnant and PF and his mother found themselves raising/caring for a baby in a non-traditional set-up. I'm sure they must've felt resentment over that and likely felt out of control - especially if his mom was pressuring him to just write this one off. I don't think this story went the way PF had wanted it to. All just thoughts. Correct me if too much speculation.

I'm feeling something similar to you. He didn't want to marry her. Maybe he had a new woman and just wanted out. I don't know. But I do think there was deception about who he was and his intentions. And it came to a head for him.

 

[gitana1]

Nothing new.

A couple false alarms, but nothing of note.

Disappointing.

 

[gngr~snap]

She is close to the "ranch".
As long as he was free, he'd have to be able to monitor her remains , body of water or grave to reassure him that he was smarter than the FBI.
WHERE did he go as a young boy? Where's his dad, grandaddy or uncle? Where did they live?
Moo