CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #20 *ARREST*

[CrimeAddict]

I do wonder if there will be some type of arrest tomorrow before Friday’s hearing. That is when the judge decides about unsealing some documents.

I feel like they have his “helper” and that’s why PF was busted, I bet that person is getting a lesser deal, and its very hush hush so that person is not harassed! I really think someone has told on him, my guess is 90% of us agree!

 

[cluciano63]

Maybe they were on and off again
...

I don't think she thought so...at least not as far as her mom knew and they were said to be very close.

 

[cluciano63]

I feel like they have his “helper” and that’s why PF was busted, I bet that person is getting a lesser deal, and its very hush hush so that person is not harassed! I really think someone has told on him, my guess is 90% of us agree!

But then why can't they find her?

 

[CrimeAddict]

I don't think she thought so...at least not as far as her mom knew and they were said to be very close.

My thought on this is that her mom had to remain calm the entire time before he was arrested. She knew they broke up, she knew he was a nasty human being. IMO she was playing along so her grand daughter would be FINE and he would be jailed. Imagine that strength!

 

[CrimeAddict]

But then why can't they find her?

Because the helper did not hide the body.

 

[NoeticSoul]

I don't think she thought so...at least not as far as her mom knew and they were said to be very close.

I think she told her family positive things so that they would not worry from a long distance. I'm a mom of 2 adult daughters, and if they met someone online and fell into that situation so soon, they'd tell me what I wanted to hear, first--so that I wouldn't lecture them on what a HUGE mistake that was. MOO

 

[Inthedetails]

Because the helper did not hide the body.

Or....the helper is willing to give info about solicitation but not admit knowing anything about the body.

Speculation. Jmo.

 

[MassGuy]

I feel like they have his “helper” and that’s why PF was busted, I bet that person is getting a lesser deal, and its very hush hush so that person is not harassed! I really think someone has told on him, my guess is 90% of us agree!

Yeah. He solicited atleast one person to commit her murder.

That one person alone, could potentially bring him down. It’s likely that this person is talking.

Now if there’s another individual involved, perhaps another person he solicited, or someone who helped in the coverup (cell phone), then he’s really in trouble.

I wouldn’t be surprised if there were multiple people with varying levels of involvement, criminal or not, who are providing law enforcement with information.

This would somewhat explain the secrecy, as law enforcement works to untangle the web.

 

[CrimeAddict]

Yeah. He solicited atleast one person to commit her murder.

That one person alone, could potentially bring him down. It’s likely that this person is talking.

Now if there’s another individual involved, perhaps another person he solicited, or someone who helped in the coverup (cell phone), then he’s really in trouble.

I wouldn’t be surprised if there were multiple people with varying levels of involvement, criminal or not, who are providing law enforcement with information.

This would somewhat explain the secrecy, as law enforcement works to untangle the web.

Well if someone brought that phone to Idaho for him, with technology the way it is, they probably located the person that had the phone and they are also busted. I think there is 2 people that helped. One helper, one he asked to commit the murder, i really feel like both are talking.

 

[GoJacks]

Both KB and PF had red trucks. I wonder if they were the same make and model. You brought up a good point. What if it was PF's red truck
that parked next to KB's other car while she was at Safeway.

PF truck was a toyota tacoma. Kelsey's truck was a Chevy. Mostly likely not pickups you would mistake for one another.

 

[MsBetsy]

IMO
-KB "broke up" with PF 1/2018, but allowed him to continued having a relationship with little K, only.
-PF ended his that "relationship" ( & KB's life) on 11/22/2018 and kept little K, thinking he would never have to do another exchange with KB again
So...
- PF says to his lawyer there were no problems with the "relationship" because there was no "relationship" (romantically speaking) for the past year, only times when they exchanged custody (caregiver of) little K with each other.

As far as robbery, I don't believe that she ever had any ring or engagement/plans to marry.
I think perhaps that was something that was said to appease other people.
There are 9 months to to go to a justice of the peace to be "married" before a child is born.
With or without a ring.
The baby would be "legitimate" and carry the dad's name.


KB probably had better medical insurance, wasn't married to PF and didn't live with him, knowing that little K was his.
So, there are two seperate household bills being paid.
Even if PF's mom is paying his.

So, KB is paying for her household, medical insurance and probably medical bills.

A break up in Jan 2018 makes sense!

If PF was the father couldn't KB force the issue and require a paternity test that would in turn force him to help provide for the child? (As well as force her to be allowed visitation with child.) *which she was already doing.

The gears are turning, so this may not be stated correctly, if it were the opposite.

Kb is pregnant, she knows who the father is and is living with him. They are both splitting the bills, but she still refuses to go to the JOP, making the child "legitimate", but continues live with JF?
Baby is born and given KB last name- how does that work? PF refuses to sign the affidavit to sign the birth certificate and isn't forced to have a paternity test proving his paternity?

How does that work?
Would KB just not be forcing the issue, by asking for financial assistance because she has enough $ and wants him to spend time with the child, but knows she can end it at amy time?

I'm not making sense.

Paternity doesn't have to be established by DNA as an affidavit can be signed.
The reason for not signing would be for the man to not be held financially responsible for the child until 18 right?
Why would KB ok with that?
Or more generally why would any woman be ok with that?

Moo

I'm not sure what you are asking, but I do know that paternity does not have to be established in order for him to be ordered to pay child support as long as his name is on the birth certificate. Which I think it must be, otherwise they could have removed the child from him and allowed visitation with her parents when he refused to let her mom see the baby.
Child support would have been required if she had physical custody and had taken him to court and requested it. I really don't see any way he could have prevented it, unless he had physical custody, then she would pay.
I don't know what it's like in Colorado, but in NY if the non custodial parent violates the court order they can go to jail, once the payments are behind by a certain length of time.

 

[Sillybilly]

Threads are dedicated to discussion of the case at hand. Off topic posts get removed. Moderation, and what appears to be a software issue today, are not the topic of this thread.

Thank you for staying on topic.

 

[PommyMommy]

When are they throwing us a bone? Friday something is happening but I think pre trial information is end of month, right?

Docket for: Teller County - Teller County Courthouse
Showing 1 - 3 of 3 records

1/3/19 8:30 AM 1H FRAZEE, PATRICK Pre-Trial Conference D602018JV26 Teller County DIV 11 - TELLER DISTRICT COURT (Custody Hearing)

1/4/19 1:30 PM 3.50H FRAZEE, PATRICK Motions Hearing D602018CR330 Teller County DIV 11 - TELLER DISTRICT COURT

1/29/19 9:00 AM 1D FRAZEE, PATRICK Preliminary Hearing D602018CR330 Teller County DIV 11 - TELLER DISTRICT COURT

Colorado Judicial Branch - Teller County - Dockets

 

[Warwick7]

I feel like they have his “helper” and that’s why PF was busted, I bet that person is getting a lesser deal, and its very hush hush so that person is not harassed! I really think someone has told on him, my guess is 90% of us agree!

Oh yes..... I agree...

 

[Steelslady]

PF truck was a toyota tacoma. Kelsey's truck was a Chevy. Mostly likely not pickups you would mistake for one another.

Unless you're someone like me and can't tell one truck from another, lol. Seriously, God help anyone if I have to describe a vehicle. Other than the plate, if I saw the tag number, and color, I would have no clue.

 

[susiQ]

Didn’t he also tell the guy who ran the place with the donkeys (forgot his name and place) that she would run off without contact and leave him with the baby often too? And potentially told family stories about her drug use?

Personally, I think the misinformation was coming from him in preparation for her murder/disappearance. I think a lot was to be able to distance himself from her eventual murder. I do not think she had any clue any of this was going on. MOO

My understanding is that these charges require prosecutors to prove the robbery occurred FIRST. Meaning they must have some proof PF didn’t murder KB and then steal her phone/purse.

BBM
Just addressing this part. People are probably tired of me and my "narcissist" theme, but I know some of you understand this. For any who don't, just do a cursory search on the narcissist and "flying monkeys". PF is in some ways "textbook". They set up others to do their bidding for them and that's exactly what these "friends, neighbours, clients are doing for PF right now. The victim, in this case KB, never knows how they are being set up and often doesn't understand the treatment they get from others because of it. In truth, his "flying monkeys" are victims too. They've been lied to as well. Narcs are pathological liars and will use anyone they can to further their agenda. He's not smart. He's just a NARC.

 

[panther518]

I really wonder what drew KB to PF in the first place. From the little information we have they almost seem to come from two different worlds. For her to be in the type of career she was, I just don’t understand the attraction to him.

Did anyone else observe his mannerisms being odd in the court videos, and also I know it’s been mentioned before with his awkward holding of baby K, but there is also a picture I saw where he literally looks like he is about to drop her & is so focused on looking at the camera not paying any attention to what he’s doing.

I know it’s thrown around a lot, but is it possible he could be autistic or if not something else going on? There just seems something off about his facial reactions & mannerisms. In contrast, she was very attractive & put together seeming.

 

[OldLadyBlues]

Yeah. He solicited atleast one person to commit her murder.

That one person alone, could potentially bring him down. It’s likely that this person is talking.

Now if there’s another individual involved, perhaps another person he solicited, or someone who helped in the coverup (cell phone), then he’s really in trouble.

I wouldn’t be surprised if there were multiple people with varying levels of involvement, criminal or not, who are providing law enforcement with information.

This would somewhat explain the secrecy, as law enforcement works to untangle the web.

I totally agree with you, MassGuy. As much as this looks like a tangled web, I think LE has total control over this whole investigation and that's all I'm going to say.
MOO, MOO

 

[Hatfield]

Sadly, where he lives is remote in all directions with many empty mines and burn scars of the forest. He had way more than dozens of places to hide the body... or toss her off a cliff 1000+ feet down.

JMO
Exactly. We have to remember that both their homes were basically in the Rocky Mountains in Colorado. For people that have never visited the Rocky mountains just think of a small Mount Everest except covered with tall pine trees and woods everywhere. There are sporadic homes, cabins, and small communities but there are also thousands upon thousands of acres of remote woods so thick you can easily get lost and never find your way out. He would be familiar with back logging roads that typically need a 4 wheeler to drive around the mountainous back roads.

So unfortunately if he chose to bury or put her body in a shallow grave in the woods he had many choices that he probably knew about.

With that said, I am kind of leaning to something more sinister. Awhile back we had discussed the possibility that he may have known someone or had access himself to an incinerator that may have been used in cattle processing. Or even on his own property he may have had a homemade kiln type outdoor fireplace made of cinder blocks that he may have used to burn trash.

If a fire is hot enough and large enough and burns long enough, it can do a pretty efficient job of burning even bones and reducing almost everything to ash.

I have shared on other cases that I once did an experiment because I have always been curious if a normal large fire can reduce bones to ash. I burn a lot of wood debris and one particular day I had a very large fire going and happened to see a dead possum that had gotten killed by another animal. I decided to test if the fire could reduce the entire thing to ash. The fire I had going was huge and very hot. I was burning an entire old tree that had fallen and I had cut it up with a chainsaw and the fire was roughly 10-15 feet diameter across. I put the dead possum in one of the hottest parts of the fire and about 2 hours later I was surprised that nothing but ashes was left. I had expected to see at least some of the skull left but nothing at all was left except ash. And this was just a normal outdoor open fire. It made me realize that if someone built a cinder block fire area with cinder block walls and purposely wanted to reduce down a body with fire they could reduce most all of a body to ash if they worked a little at it.

He had the property for something like that or he may have known someone that had a real incinerator rigged up. Something like using a propane tank to feed propane gas through a pipe into a cinder block boxed in area and had wood and other fuel to contain the fire and keep it very hot. Some farmers have rigs like this to burn trash down to nothing. Or maybe he knew someone that had access to an incinerator used in cattle processing for entrails and other unwanted parts.

Since he seemed to have planned this well in advance and since he seemed so confident he would not be caught I have been thinking he was more devious in how he disposed of her. A scary thought is that LE may already know what he did with her and maybe she is not recoverable.

But then again he may have just chose a remote place in the woods which was also an easy option for him.

My hope is he slipped up in who he talked to and they have come forward to help LE know what he actually did with her.

 

[MassGuy]

I really wonder what drew KB to PF in the first place. From the little information we have they almost seem to come from two different worlds. For her to be in the type of career she was, I just don’t understand the attraction to him.

Did anyone else observe his mannerisms being odd in the court videos, and also I know it’s been mentioned before with his awkward holding of baby K, but there is also a picture I saw where he literally looks like he is about to drop her & is so focused on looking at the camera not paying any attention to what he’s doing.

I know it’s thrown around a lot, but is it possible he could be autistic or if not something else going on? There just seems something off about his facial reactions & mannerisms. In contrast, she was very attractive & put together seeming.

Apparently they met on an online dating site.

I don’t think we can really draw too many conclusions about him based on court videos and still photographs.

Personally, as far as that court video goes, I got the feeling that he was understanding of the gravity of his current situation.

He looked nervous to me.

There is obviously something “off” about him, as he is a cold blooded murderer.

I just don’t think we can diagnose him with anything based on the limited information we have.