CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #22 *ARREST*

[gitana1]

Kelsey Berreth's parents keep temporary custody of her child

SABBMFAA:

The following court document was provided publicly in relation to the custody case:

People v. Frazee – 2018JV26:
The case was set for pre-trial conference today. TCDHS requested closed hearing pursuant to 19-1-106; all parties agreed to closed hearing; Court finds closing hearing to the general public in child’s best interest; Court orders parents not to publicly comment about this D&N case out of concern for child’s best interests; Father was present in custody with counsel; GAL present; counsel for maternal grandparents present with maternal grandparents appearing by phone; paternal grandmother and aunt present with counsel; parties still waiting to review discovery in criminal case before proceeding further; Court finds good cause to extend adjudicatory deadlines; Court reserves right to hearing re: paternal kin motions to intervene & to request contested custody hearing; TCDHS & GAL have discretion to set up kin visitation; Court continues temporary legal custody of child with TCDHS, temporary physical custody with maternal grandparents; reset pre-trial conference to 2/7/19 at 8:30 a.m.

_____________________
So glad there's a GAL (guardian ad litem) involved in the custody case!
The GAL will be looking out for and making recommendations that are based solely on the best interests of KB's daughter.

Thank you so much for posting this. Gosh CO is different. None of that would be publicized intentionally by the court in CA!!

But it's interesting.

Like in my state the child has a GAL. we actually use minor's counsel. And then social services will have counsel.

In this case both the GAL and social services (CPS/DHS), will make recommendations. Thus far social services has determined at first that the baby should be immediately placed with the Berreths. Why?

And now twice, the court has left the baby in their care. Why?

Well to me it indicates that the GAL and social services have recommended the child stay with the Berreths. I'm interested to know their reasoning?

I mean if she's seeking a contested custody hearing meaning she wants she child placed with her, then she thinks she's healthy and able enough to care for an infant. And she's an in-state placement and someone who has likely provided regular care and has had frequent contact and who has lived with the baby quite a bit.

In addition I'm certain PF has asked te court to allow the baby to stay with his mother.

Yet they pick someone out of state who has had much less contact and who the baby never lived with.

I find it interesting. But I don't know that we will ever know the reasons why.

ETA: I also see that they're already mentioning the statutory time lines and have ordered that those will be extended. That means they're giving PF some leeway and want to see what evidence there is before they start the clock on determining when to start the process of either reunification or termination of parental rights.

I feel like we are in for a wild ride.

 

[Trudie]

Kelsey's mom orchestrated the removal of the baby?
Kelsey's mom made the baby a ward of the state?

Law enforcement has the responsibility to ensure that children of arrested parents have proper care. That's why LE took the toddler after Patrick, the parent, was arrested. CPS then determined the toddler should immediately stay with Kelsey's mother.

And, it appeared TO ME that CB had worked with her lawyer & was immediately prepared to take custody of her granddaughter. Had she not, idk that the child would have been removed from Mrs. F.

MOO

 

[PrairieWind]

Thank you so much for posting this. Gosh CO is different. None of that would be publicized intentionally by the court in CA!!

But it's interesting.

Like in my state the child has a GAL. we actually use minor's counsel. And then social services will have counsel.

In this case both the GAL and social services (CPS/DHS), will make recommendations. Thus far social services has determined at first that the baby should be immediately placed with the Berreths. Why?

And now twice, the court has left the baby in their care. Why?

Well to me it indicates that the GAL and social services have recommended the child stay with the Berreths. I'm interested to know their reasoning?

I mean if she's seeking a contested custody hearing meaning she wants she child placed with her, then she thinks she's healthy and able enough to care for an infant. And she's an in-state placement and someone who has likely provided regular care and has had frequent contact and who has lived with the baby quite a bit.

In addition I'm certain PF has asked te court to allow the baby to stay with his mother.

Yet they pick someone out of state who has had much less contact and who the baby never lived with.

I find it interesting. But I don't know that we will ever know the reasons why.

ETA: I also see that they're already mentioning the statutory time lines and have ordered that those will be extended. That means they're giving PF some leeway and want to see what evidence there is before they start the clock on determining when to start the process of either reunification or termination of parental rights.

I feel like we are in for a wild ride.

I’m also interested in why the child immediately went to CB. I am shocked that any of this has been public and I wonder if there will be some roll back on it. It shouldn’t be public. As for the termination of parental rights just for incarceration, we don’t don’t see it that much, except when the child is the victim. But we are a long long ways from when that would be even considered.

 

[gitana1]

I think in county lock up they might be in the “do over” stage. Wishing for a “do over”. Maybe not do the crime, maybe do it dif’, etc.
I’ve followed crime for too many years, read thousands of true crime books, etc. of course I was addicted to Lock Up, lol. It seems to me these guys go to prison & simply adapt to a somewhat military lifestyle. Obviously, they have to adapt. I think prison is not as bad as what we envision.
It also occurs to me after time, they give no thought to their crime. Or, the grief of losing their freedom is similar to someone mourning a death. It gets easier or at least monopolizes less of our mind, over time. Is life in prison a fraternity of sorts? I think so. My sister is a case manager at a large male prison. She’s always astounded at how quickly a new inmate acclimatizes to his situation.



moo

I feel like I would lose my mind. In hours.

 

[Seattle1]

<modsnip: quoted post was removed due to referencing social media of family members>

Poor Kelsey and her family.

If Kelsey is never found, what is the protocol for cases like this in CO ?
There have been other cases tried w/o a body.

Yes, the Colorado case of Kelsie Schelling who was pregnant when she went missing 5 years ago is going to trial this year. Her body has never been found.
Donthe Lucas to stand trial for the death of pregnant girlfriend Kelsie Schelling five years ago – The Denver Post

 

[Trudie]

I’m also interested in why the child immediately went to CB. I am shocked that any of this has been public and I wonder if there will be some roll back on it. It shouldn’t be public. As for the termination of parental rights just for incarceration, we don’t don’t see it that much, except when the child is the victim. But we are a long long ways from when that would be even considered.

I can’t find any definitive info regarding timeline for terminating parental rights.

 

[SandyQLS]

@gitana1 - I don't want to quote your long post... The same judge is currently covering both the child placement case and PF's criminal case per media articles. So that judge has had access to the sealed probable cause AW and perhaps other sealed evidence. Now today she ruled to continue the child placement case until the sealed evidence is revealed. Does this not speak some message from the judge about what is likely about to happen to some F family members? PF is innocent until proven guilty even if he is unable to care for the baby in his position. So why is the judge concerned about the sealed evidence in the criminal case as it relates to other F family member custody or visitation?

 

[Trudie]

I feel like I would lose my mind. In hours.

I know I would. But I don’t think the way murderers think.

 

[LietKynes]

There might not be 'basic information' that is accurate concerning the supposed break up. I think it is possible that PF was stringing a few women along, lying to them all. He was telling KB one thing, IN another thing, and his Mom and friends, something different all together.

So the journalists are being fed information from credible sources. Except that PF was telling lies to everyone. JMO

Emph. mine

Re. the bolded section : I think you're right.

Still wondering what he was so "afraid" of that he was willing to murder or have someone else kill her ?
Just the possible loss of custody seems like a poor reason to risk spending your life behind bars. What had KB discovered about PF -- or someone else ?
Jmo.

 

[PrairieWind]

And, it appeared TO ME that CB had worked with her lawyer & was immediately prepared to take custody of her granddaughter. Had she not, idk that the child would have been removed from Mrs. F.

MOO

I think they may have been ready to take custody but didn’t institute the proceedings. They can’t. And I hope they didn’t try to coerce the state to act. That would be discoverable by SF’s attorney and could reflect badly. I am assuming that didn’t happen.

 

[MsJosie]

Total speculation, but I think the texts were manually typed and sent by the person in Idaho, rather than scheduled to be sent at a specified time. Even if I was not trying to cover up a murder and just needed to send a very, very important message to my boss, I would be completely freaked out about scheduling it and then not having the phone in my possession to see if it sent. Or most important, not being able to see what the response to my text said. Obviously PF would be getting the message to himself to know if it worked. But if it didn't send for some reason, then would he do? Jmo, but I think a person was texting from Kelsey's phone. I also think that person scanned what other messages were received and maybe the knowledge gained from reading those texts helped ward off any growing concern about where Kelsey may be. Where damage control or deflection to any worried friends or family had to be made. (Just my own random thoughts.)

From the police chief's last press conference, it sounds like they must have a lot of phone data from various people to piece an electronic trail together.

There are ways to send a text for certain days and times ahead of the actual text being sent...especially if he had any of her pass codes yo any devices. Just think back to felon jodie arias and the hacks she did to Travis’ computer and phone...I was surprised back then at what was done so I can see similar hacks happening in this case to get texts sent indicating other times and locations etc. now to wait for the actual info.

 

[PrairieWind]

Emph. mine

Re. the bolded section : I think you're right.

Still wondering what he was so "afraid" of that he was willing to murder or have someone else kill her ?
Just the possible loss of custody seems like a poor reason to risk spending your life behind bars. What had KB discovered about PF -- or someone else ?
Jmo.

I sort of feel the same. More than custody. There seems to be something else going on here, but I can’t imagine what.

 

[GordianKnot]

Thank you so much for posting this. Gosh CO is different. None of that would be publicized intentionally by the court in CA!!

But it's interesting.

Like in my state the child has a GAL. we actually use minor's counsel. And then social services will have counsel.

In this case both the GAL and social services (CPS/DHS), will make recommendations. Thus far social services has determined at first that the baby should be immediately placed with the Berreths. Why?

And now twice, the court has left the baby in their care. Why?

Well to me it indicates that the GAL and social services have recommended the child stay with the Berreths. I'm interested to know their reasoning?

I mean if she's seeking a contested custody hearing meaning she wants she child placed with her, then she thinks she's healthy and able enough to care for an infant. And she's an in-state placement and someone who has likely provided regular care and has had frequent contact and who has lived with the baby quite a bit.

In addition I'm certain PF has asked te court to allow the baby to stay with his mother.

Yet they pick someone out of state who has had much less contact and who the baby never lived with.

I find it interesting. But I don't know that we will ever know the reasons why.

Interesting, indeed! It is actually quite suggestive that the court appears for now to find the local grandparent who has presumably spent a great deal of time with the baby over the past year is not the most fit caregiver for her.

I'm actually wondering if DCS was asked to do a home study on the PF/SF household and if so, what they noted in their report.

 

[Trudie]

I think they may have been ready to take custody but didn’t institute the proceedings. They can’t. And I hope they didn’t try to coerce the state to act. That would be discoverable by SF’s attorney and could reflect badly. I am assuming that didn’t happen.

If CB had not wanted custody you think LE would have taken the baby at time PF was arrested?
It’s very dif’ in my state (southern), the child would be taken if there was no adult to care for it, obviously, or if it might be in danger. Tysm

 

[Trudie]

Interesting, indeed! It is actually quite suggestive that the court appears for now to find the local grandparent who has presumably spent a great deal of time with the baby over the past year is not the most fit caregiver for her.

I'm actually wondering if DCS was asked to do a home study on the PF/SF household and if so, what they noted in their report.

Or at least interview both grandmas.

 

[InvSmith]

Referring to the quoted bit in your post :
[QUOTE="No, I meant P & K. Did they have a formal agreement?

Idk if P’s rights have been taken away, in regards to parenting. He’s involved in the custody petition. He’s innocent. He’s not been declared guilty. IMO, the baby was not removed from Mrs. F because of impending danger. Rather removed bc k’s mom had quietly, behind the scene, orchestrated a custody petition, making the baby a ward of the state. That’s why, IMO, the baby was taken from Mrs. F. All the time P was under suspicion, he had the child.

MOO MOO

BBM

"Orchestrated" ...sounds conniving.

But respectfully, CB was being denied access to her own granddaughter; by PF or his advice -- which was being followed.

The last person that should be victim-blamed is Kelsey's mom.
She will never get to see or hear her daughter again.
Imo, she didn't "orchestrate" anything, but wanted to go about seeing Kelsey's baby in a LEGAL way.

That way was through the court system --she (CB) couldn't just take the baby from PF's mom.
The best path to take is the law-abiding way.
KB's mom understands this.[/QUOTE]

I think the other part as well is Websleuth exclusively is not for discussing uncharged family members. It will get you censored real quick. This board is more discussing case of victim KB and the case that might help unless files are posted on the custody. Imo. Blessings.

 

[SandyQLS]

Emph. mine

Re. the bolded section : I think you're right.

Still wondering what he was so "afraid" of that he was willing to murder or have someone else kill her ?
Just the possible loss of custody seems like a poor reason to risk spending your life behind bars. What had KB discovered about PF -- or someone else ?
Jmo.

I cannot find a motive for PF that really seems to stick for me. I guess we will some day get more info.

 

[Trudie]

I suppose you are right. But for a guy like PF, a cowboy, used to the open country, the mountains, animals, nature, weather..... prison would be ..... unbearable.

Lol, if he’s convicted, he can farm at the gray bar hotel. Several CO state prisons still farm. I don’t think he’ll do a lot of riding & roping. He might have days he’d like to have a rope in his cell........

 

[Trudie]

I cannot find a motive for PF that really seems to stick for me. I guess we will some day get more info.

Sometimes, I wonder if we really know the motive.

 

[PrairieWind]

If CB had not wanted custody you think LE would have taken the baby at time PF was arrested?
It’s very dif’ in my state (southern), the child would be taken if there was no adult to care for it, obviously, or if it might be in danger. Tysm

The state MUST take custody in this instance. Neither grandparent has any legal authority.