CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #22 *ARREST*

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Idk any info that F or Bs might have to “tarnish” reputations, of each other, either. I guess there’s always “things” a person can dig up, if inclined.
Since the child is far from school age,maybe 50/50 custody? Just a guess. I would not like 50/50 but it’s not my call.
Personally, I don’t think the baby would be in danger with grandma F, she has never caused her harm, to my knowledge. It sounds like she has had opportunity, as much as she baby-sat, if factual.
I think the Bs will heal much faster if they can raise the child.
I don’t feel either party has a financial motive for custody, I think all love baby K.
MOO
Wouldn't shared custody be very hard on a young child? The two families live so far apart, I don't see what arrangement they could make that would be in the best interest of the child.
I do know parents who have lived a couple hours away from each other, who had shared custody. The child spent alternate weeks with each parent until she began school. But this would be impossible if they are far apart. Imo
 
The ID nurse could have unwittingly carried KB's phone back to ID. PF could have slipped it in her luggage. It's also possible the killer(s) live in ID and the nurse knows them. They could be the ones who took KB's phone to ID.

Except the LE source and her friends are saying she is suspected of disposing of the phone. Don't think we are going to find she is a victim here.
 
Apologies if this has been asked before but does this mean it will be a 4 hour long session? BBM And is there video allowed tomorrow? I hope there are some body language experts in there if so!!
Seventh Judicial District » Docket Search

Date Len Name Hearing Type Case # Location Division
1/4/19
1:30 PM 3.50H FRAZEE, PATRICK Motions Hearing D602018CR330 Teller County DIV 11 - TELLER DISTRICT COURT
1/29/19
9:00 AM 1D FRAZEE, PATRICK Preliminary Hearing D602018CR330 Teller County DIV 11 - TELLER DISTRICT COURT
2/7/19
8:30 AM 1H FRAZEE, PATRICK Pre-Trial Conference D602018JV26 Teller County DIV 11 - TELLER DISTRICT COURT
 
The judge could have immediately opened it up, so it isn't that the judge doesn't like it. It is the judge is trying to decide how fine a legal line she can walk and ensure info is provided to the defense and rights are protected. If she was so concerned PF would have had access on the last court date but she put if off til tomorrow.
It could be that this judge doesn’t like to make snap decisions. She wants to give consideration and research to the legal arguments before weighing in. Nothing wrong with that. But there is potentially something wrong with the prosecution bringing the motion in the first place. It could potentially derail their case or be a basis for appeal. If PF did it, the last thing we should want is for the prosecution to mess it up with a serious procedural error.
 
This is what I truly suspect. I curious at what point they will see all the evidence piling up and realize all the lies.
Or maybe they love the baby? If they don't move on custody now, their not gonna get it back later.

Would anyone just give up a child they have cared for since birth, and love, like some sort of condolence gift?

I don't know enough about the relationship(s) the baby has with PF'S family to chime in with possible motivation re baby, but not seeing the move to keep a child you love as heartless.
 
She did say that. I think she has a couple of people who are truckers in her family. She said she posted it on FB but this was right after she went missing when they didn't know what happened. She said that the truckers were on alert, or something like that. I don't remember if LE said anything about that. Imo
Good memory, MsBetsy!

CO - CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #5
My husband, son and several other family members are truckers, and I know that there is no other network that can get out there and have eyes everywhere. They were the first place I turned to get the word out.
(Kelsey's Aunt)
 
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If this is CB's brother, perhaps she gave him permission to speak to the press about why she moved? In light of what we now know about the IN - it makes me wonder if this wasn't an attempt by LE to get information from her friends since it is being reported that she also had a relationship with PF around this same time? It just seems to me KB's family (all of them) have been very careful - and the Aunt no longer posts on WS that I can find although she did in the beginning. I'm guessing that is a recommendation from LE as well IMO.
KB's brother's husband was quoted in an article very early on before LE said they believed her to be dead. He didn't reveal anything intimate .He just spoke of the loving person she was and how he enjoyed their trips together --- camping, hiking, etc.

KB's brother just talked about the cinnamon rolls, nothing missing from her house accept her phone and purse, and how KB and their mom would never leave the house w/o being fully made up and their hair done.

The Safeway CCTV shows that she did go out w/o her hair done. Whether this was only on that day or something she did after having the baby, we don't know.

I think the still from Safeway and the full body photo of KB with the donkey are the most important to post around her neighborhood and other parts of CO (within driving distance) to see if anyone remembers seeing her on Thanksgiving.
 
Wouldn't shared custody be very hard on a young child? The two families live so far apart, I don't see what arrangement they could make that would be in the best interest of the child.
I do know parents who have lived a couple hours away from each other, who had shared custody. The child spent alternate weeks with each parent until she began school. But this would be impossible if they are far apart. Imo

IMO, it’s difficult. A Judge can rule how he likes, tho.
Here, we have a baby wanted by maternal & paternal grands. Idk how a Judge, not knowing neither, can say who is “best” suited.

Not arguing with anyone. Trying to see both sides & what could happen. If K was comfortable with Ma F watching the baby, IMO, that speaks to the Judge.

New York Prisoner Secures Court Order for Visitation with Child | Prison Legal News

This ^^^ is one example in NY of an incarcerated man getting court ordered visitation in prison. He did not kill the baby mom, tho.

Moo
 
Good memory, MsBetsy!

CO - CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #5
My husband, son and several other family members are truckers, and I know that there is no other network that can get out there and have eyes everywhere. They were the first place I turned to get the word out.
Yes. The aunt did put out an appeal to truckers on her FB. I felt that was an extremely good thing to do. Truckers keep their eyes and ears open. They constantly monitor what's coming over their Citizen Band Radio. They stop at gas stations and restauuarants, which could be the same place killer(s) stopped.
 
Does Kaylee have any Godparents? I'm not sure if the declaration of Godparents is part of SDA.
 
In a perfect world, the Fs would step aside, graciously.
Even if K had died from injuries in an accident or something, it stands to reason her family would wish to raise K’s child. Its so overly disgusting that K can’t raise her child because of P.

Moo
 
As with most narcissists, they begin their relationships with an intense “love bombing” phase. In the beginning, PF would be whatever he thought KB desired in a man. It’s much easier to deceive someone from a distance. This is probably why KB acted so quickly by moving to CO, because she felt she had finally found “the one.”

I’d say probably within a few months, she saw the true nature of PF (such as the fact he was living with his mother). Whether he was cheating during that time is debatable, but if he’s a narcissist, it’s likely that he’s not capable of true commitment to anyone. That’s probably why he initially picked women that were from out of state. It’s much easier to play the field from a distance.

Once KB was pregnant, I think he freaked out and started causing problems in their relationship, mainly to distance himself from the responsibility of a baby. He may have even been alternating between KB and the nurse. So, both relationships were “on and off”, with him focusing on whichever one served him most at the time. I think KB wasn’t aware of the nurse till much later.

KB probably tolerated a lot of BS from PF mainly because she was trying to make it work for the sake of the baby. Not to mention, she didn't want to admit to CB/her family that she rushed into something without thinking it through.

Once she found out about the cheating, I imagine she terminated the relationship. Nothing enrages a narcissist more than rejection. Narcissists will work to get back together with you just so THEY can be the one that called it off. Or, just to have the opportunity to hurt you even worse than before.

I believe their relationship (other than the first few months) was a very turbulent one. I see it as very much an “on and off” until the very end.

Maybe TG was an attempt by PF to say he wanted to work on getting back together. Maybe he convinced KB that he and the nurse had finally called it off. Maybe he told KB he was ready to be a family – to share a meal and go get a Christmas tree together as a family.

Maybe it was just a setup to put her in position to murder her. MOO.
 
IMO, it’s difficult. A Judge can rule how he likes, tho.
Here, we have a baby wanted by maternal & paternal grands. Idk how a Judge, not knowing neither, can say who is “best” suited.

Not arguing with anyone. Trying to see both sides & what could happen. If K was comfortable with Ma F watching the baby, IMO, that speaks to the Judge.

New York Prisoner Secures Court Order for Visitation with Child | Prison Legal News

This ^^^ is one example in NY of an incarcerated man getting court ordered visitation in prison. He did not kill the baby mom, tho.

Moo
I think the actions (withholding the baby from CB) by PF's family will carry some weight with the Judge - we have no way of knowing what homelife PF provided except what he says, what SF says, and the sister who posted here on WS some time ago has said about that homelife. IMO
 
That includes when the parent killed someone in the family? You’d think domestic violence/domestic murder would negate any and all parental rights to the minor children.
You would, but you'd also be shocked how few rights DV victims still have and how many their perps do. I work the DV field. I was just doing research for work (because some of us are working very hard to change all that) last night and read the following facts in a scholarly article about what happens to women who kill their abusers in self-defense:

“Results showed that domestic violence victims had higher conviction rates and longer sentences than all others charged with homicide, including those with previous violent criminal records.”

“Overall, a white female defendant with no prior convictions or criminal history who was convicted by a jury of killing a white person could expect an average sentence of 10 to 30 years. However, if the woman was a victim of domestic violence, her predicted sentence increased to life.”

“Because the conviction rate was higher for victims of domestic violence, all of whom were women, the average sentences were longer for them than for all others, including batterers and men with criminal histories.”

Citation: Jacobsen, Carol, Mizga, Kammy, & D'Orio, Lynn. (2007). Battered woman, homicide convictions, and sentencing: The case of clemency. Hastings Women's Law Journal, 18(1), 31-65.

In 2017, in one of many such cases, a family court judge in Denver County found in a divorce that the wife was a victim of domestic violence and that he was concerned about the husband's mental state and inability to control his temper, and ordered him to anger management and counseling. However, the judge said, since the violence was only directed at the mother, he gave the father 50% parenting time (physical custody). All true, I was there. And this despite the FACT that in 30-60% of cases where DV is present, the children are also abused. (Domestic Violence and Co-occurrence with Child Abuse) Those are terrifying odds.

All that to say, yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if poor Baby K has to visit her murderous bio dad or some such baloney. :mad:
 
IMO, it’s difficult. A Judge can rule how he likes, tho.
Here, we have a baby wanted by maternal & paternal grands. Idk how a Judge, not knowing neither, can say who is “best” suited.

Not arguing with anyone. Trying to see both sides & what could happen. If K was comfortable with Ma F watching the baby, IMO, that speaks to the Judge.

New York Prisoner Secures Court Order for Visitation with Child | Prison Legal News

This ^^^ is one example in NY of an incarcerated man getting court ordered visitation in prison. He did not kill the baby mom, tho.

Moo

I believe this judge is a “she”

Actually never mind, I’m thinking of the criminal case, not sure about judge ruling on custody

ETA: No, I was right the first time, Judge Linda Billings-Vela
 
It's just that it's disturbing that PF's mom would not let the Berreths see Kaylee. Bad omen.

I hope this is a point raised against SF's custody.
Why do this? What does SF have against the Berreth family?
Therefore amicable custody arrangements between the two families would not appear to be desirable.
Whether PF's sister intervenes or not is irrelevant.
Past actions by the Frazee family must surely have a bearing on custody.
Being mean, vindictive does not work.
MOO.
 
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