CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #26 *ARREST*

[cluciano63]

If we had seen only the pic of Kelsey, PF & baby, without context, I doubt the immediate reaction would have been “ew...what does she see in him”...etc

They looked very well matched in the pic, imo...though I run a mile from anything western, or cowboy-themed myself lol

 

[PrairieWind]

If I recall correctly, PF hauled the trailer to dump/transfer station and sat inside his vehicle while 2 others that arrived at station separately unloaded the trailer. It's never been reported what was dumped or who owned the rubbish but by late night/early morning hours, LE returned to SF's previously searched property following up their search again.

MOO

I have thought maybe the trip to the dump is a red herring. That PF maybe just was helping some friends or someone hired him to haul their trash. I found it relevant that PF didn't get out to unload the trash and the other two men arrived in cars. So maybe he was just hauling the trash for two guys that didn't have pickup trucks of their own.

 

[MsBetsy]

I know in my state, it is whoever has physical possession of the child at the time, as long as both parents are listed on the birth certificate.

How does that work if that parent wants to keep possession of the child all the time? At one point the other parent will want to visit with the child in their own home, and has every legal right to. Who enforces it without a court order?

 

[Yellow Rose]

Here is a set of farrier tools.

If KB was murdered by PF or another farrier, wouldn't it be likely they would use a farrier hammer to bludgeon her to death? Or would they be too afraid of the blood splatter and having a medical examiner determine that a farrier tool was used, thus pointing to the killer being a farrier?

Farrier Tools,Hammers ,Nippers,Pullers,Knife ,Rasps - SHANDONG TONGLI S&T DEV. CO.,LTD

If KB were incapacitated or killed by a horse drug, wouldn't it take time
for the drug to take effect? Or does it work immediately?

Just made my stomach plummet

 

[Seattle1]

A wolf in sheep’s clothing.

House devil, street angel.

 

[The Saint]

The same is true in NY. A mother can list anyone as being the father, even if she has no idea if he is or not.
And she can give any last name she wants. But the father does have to sign the birth certificate in order to be legally acknowledged as the father. Imo

I have a friend in CA who was married to man and had never divorced him. She had a baby with another man and she found out that her husband was legally the father of her child. She was able to get the divorce and straighten out the legal stuff . Her ex consented to her wishes and was friends w/ the baby's father. This was more than 20 years, the law in CA may have changed.

 

[MsBetsy]

@mustloveco we miss you

Yes, I only got to see three pictures, and I wanted to ask what mountains were in the background. I don't know if there were more.

 

[PrairieWind]

How does that work if that parent wants to keep possession of the child all the time? At one point the other parent will want to visit with the child in their own home, and has every legal right to. Who enforces it without a court order?

That party would have to file a petition with the court to establish a custody arrangement and visitation.

 

[KSinMT]

How does that work if that parent wants to keep possession of the child all the time? At one point the other parent will want to visit with the child in their own home, and has every legal right to. Who enforces it without a court order?

The other parent would need to file for a temporary parenting plan (legal custody agreement) through the courts asap. My friend just went through this last year, where her ex had their daughter, wouldn't let her see her, and there was nothing she could do without a parenting plan in place.

 

[Trudie]

Oh definitely.

Tysm!!
So, someone MIGHT be in custody, charges pending until such time the investigation is complete?
Often we see a DUI/injury arrest. Later, the injured dies, the charge is amped up to manslaughter. Or a robbery at a gas station, the clerk is shot & survives for weeks, then dies. Now, the suspect has murder charges.

If a solicited/involved person talked to LE & put the blame on PF, it’s going to take some time to verify his details, imo. Maybe someone is under house arrest, even. For reasons unknown, LE prefers NO ONE know the person talking. Idk......

Speculation

 

[cluciano63]

I think a lot of put together, smart, career focused women get involved with people who have undesirable traits. (I’ve done this in my younger years.) the Julia Jacobson case is an example of this. JMO

Women of all ages...and all lengths of relationships end up victims of their spouse. You can’t tell me everyone thought the men were despicable for the whole time of many of these 20+ yr unions. And even smart women like Dr. Teresa S in Florida kept a husband around who did raise a few eyebrows long before he had her murdered. Jmo

 

[Trudie]

@riolove77
Can’t wait for the transcript from HLN with Joey Jackson discussing the civvie. Interesting take on things, imo.

 

[PrairieWind]

I have a friend in CA who was married to man and had never divorced him. She had a baby with another man and she found out that her husband was legally the father of her child. She was able to get the divorce and straighten out the legal stuff . Her ex consented to her wishes and was friends w/ the baby's father. This was more than 20 years, the law in CA may have changed.

Different states have different rules, but it is common that a husband is presumed to be the father of a child born in the marriage unless something says otherwise.

 

[MsBetsy]

I have a friend in CA who was married to man and had never divorced him. She had a baby with another man and she found out that her husband was legally the father of her child. She was able to get the divorce and straighten out the legal stuff . Her ex consented to her wishes and was friends w/ the baby's father. This was more than 20 years, the law in CA may have changed.

Yes, well it's pretty easy to get a paternity test. They were lucky they were able to get along and work it out. Imo

 

[cluciano63]

I'm going to speculate that this was not a "messy" crime scene. With a huge blood clean up, as an example. I say this based of LE believing she was murdered in her home. These were townhomes close together. Gun shots would have been heard. "silencers" don't sound like people think they sound.

I believe he may have strangled her. This would not have happened fast but he was probably strong enough to do it. I don't believe she was given anything to "knock her out" either.

When the family was insistent that her home looked normal, nothing was out of place, with the exception of her phone and purse being gone. I think this held a lot of weight with LE in the first days following her officially being reported missing.

LE however found something, but it was after they went back and really looked again. Maybe even bringing in a new set of eyes.

And...they may have been provided specifics to look for by the second search.

 

[Lhughessk]

Please beware of the packaging and flying monkeys!
Ted Bundy also had many friends, handsome, and charming. Narcs/sociopaths count on others being naive and unaware to begin grooming their targets. Most recently, everybody thought CW a great guy and model employee.

I have a question from the perspective of psychological profiling. It seems like “narcissist” is the go-to word that is used in cases of husbands who kill their wives/kids.

I know generally what narcissism is. But my question is, can a person do what PF or CW allegedly did and NOT be a narcissist? We still know so little about PF - how is it that so many people call him a narcissist even while not having very much to go on? I’m not saying they’re wrong, I just would like to know what factors have gone into forming such an opinion.

 

[cluciano63]

I have a friend in CA who was married to man and had never divorced him. She had a baby with another man and she found out that her husband was legally the father of her child. She was able to get the divorce and straighten out the legal stuff . Her ex consented to her wishes and was friends w/ the baby's father. This was more than 20 years, the law in CA may have changed.

In some states, any child born while a woman is married is legally considered her husband’s...still. LA might be one? Jmo

 

[tmar]

I love the headline. PF is in jail on a murder charge and he is being served with a civil lawsuit. He has public defenders for his criminal trial that could get him the death penalty and he has to worry about getting a lawyer for a civil trial. What a hoot! LOL....

If he would just be honest, he could end all of this.

The more stress on him the better.
Perhaps other women will come forward, portraying PF as the creep he is.
He is sitting in his cell, waiting for the next piece of news to attack his character.
It will all come, before Feb 19, I would hope.
Poor guy!
MOO.

 

[WildWest]

Oh, no! @mustloveco is invaluable! What happened?

Can someone tell me briefly, what is the giant reporting mistake regarding KK?
Was that house shown in news reports not hers?

TIA

The mistake if I follow your question is there is a nurse in So Colo with a similar name, but sleuthers here determined it's a different woman. The news channel pulled that article but it's going around as fact. If the house in the news report was in Colorado is the wrong person/wrong house.

She is. There is a second way to verify this as well. Nursys.com is US wide nursing license database. If you put IN into Nursys you can see she does not have any valid or expired nursing licenses in any state other than Idaho.

 

[K9Enzo]

And...they may have been provided specifics to look for by the second search.

Absolutely, this maybe where other people, with knowledge of the crime, started to talk. I'm sure not of their own free will, but after pressure was applied, explaining what charges they could possibly be facing. Suddenly, PF isn't as appealing anymore.

 

[margarita25]

I have a question from the perspective of psychological profiling. It seems like “narcissist” is the go-to word that is used in cases of husbands who kill their wives/kids.

I know generally what narcissism is. But my question is, can a person do what PF or CW allegedly did and NOT be a narcissist? We still know so little about PF - how is it that so many people call him a narcissist even while not having very much to go on? I’m not saying they’re wrong, I just would like to know what factors have gone into forming such an opinion.

(This is a good question, can one do something like this and not be a narcissist. It will be interesting to hear what people have to say about this. I’m fairly new to this whole narcissist concept myself, turns out I was actually even in love with one and didn’t even know it. Hopefully I can spot a narcissist a mile away now.)

 

[Trudie]

I have a question from the perspective of psychological profiling. It seems like “narcissist” is the go-to word that is used in cases of husbands who kill their wives/kids.

I know generally what narcissism is. But my question is, can a person do what PF or CW allegedly did and NOT be a narcissist? We still know so little about PF - how is it that so many people call him a narcissist even while not having very much to go on? I’m not saying they’re wrong, I just would like to know what factors have gone into forming such an opinion.

Is he a diagnosed narcissist? Or diagnosed with any personality disorder?