Deceased/Not Found CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #54 *ARREST*

[GordianKnot]

And this:

9:34 a.m.

Longmire said she informed Frazee of his right to refuse to answer her questions, which contradicts what the defense team said in a motion filed on Monday.

BBM:
Okay, this is good news.
Very good news.
So, not only has he shot himself in the foot, he's also opened his big mouth and inserted that same foot.
Perfect.

Linking some info that may or may not be relevant here:

Questioning of Defendant by CPS Worker Violated Miranda: 2nd Cir.

I'll be interested to see how this judge rules on that motion.

JMO.

 

[MassGuy]

BBM:
Okay, this is good news.
Very good news.
So, not only has he shot himself in the foot, he's also opened his big mouth and inserted that same foot.
Perfect.

Linking some info that may or may not be relevant here:

Questioning of Defendant by CPS Worker Violated Miranda: 2nd Cir.

I'll be interested to see how this judge rules on that motion.

JMO.

Crap. Now I’m not feeling so optimistic.

My fear is that it will be admitted, and then give him grounds to appeal.

I just hope the judge gets this right.

 

[steeltowngirl]

I'm hoping someone heard PF utter something incriminating!

Yes, I can picture him spouting and muttering to himself and being overheard.
It could also be something Kelsey said - at least that's how I am interpreting the Twitter wording.
I feel like it might be something she confided with her mother, about PF trying to harm her, or him trying to take the baby.

Ashley Franco on Twitter
Prosecution says there's evidence pertaining to the background of #PatrickFrazee and #KelseyBerreth and #KrystalLee. Prosecution says they believe they may introduce hearsay of Kelsey Berreth further down the line. @KKTV11News
10:20 AM - 23 Aug 2019

Sam Kraemer on Twitter
State says they could see some residual hearsay evidence of Kelsey Berreth during the trial. This is in response to the defense motion for advance notice. Judge asks if 35 days is enough. Stiegerwald says yes unless it’s extraordinary. @KOAA #KelseyBerreth #PatrickFrazee
10:20 AM - 23 Aug 2019

Sam Kraemer on Twitter
Sells says rarely does he grant an order to both parties to release all res gestae evidence. Reed says she could see questioning Krystal Kenney at trial about her relationship with Frazee. @KOAA #KelseyBerreth #PatrickFrazee

 

[katydid23]

Crap. Now I’m not feeling so optimistic.

My fear is that it will be admitted, and then give him grounds to appeal.

I just hope the judge gets this right.

Yes. That link with the courts previous rulings worries me now. Court precedent says that CPS questions may not be admitted?

 

[GordianKnot]

Crap. Now I’m not feeling so optimistic.

My fear is that it will be admitted, and then give him grounds to appeal.

I just hope the judge gets this right.

Yeah, I'm thinking, if it's a marginal call, just keep it out.

PF managed to thoroughly Frazee himself six ways to Sunday even before talking, and by talking, I mean, lying through his teeth, to the DHS worker in the jail.

I already see in my mind's eye the defense trying to appeal on the basis that he couldn't get a fair trial in Teller County, the fact that it was the defense that decided not to request a change of venue, notwithstanding.

JMO.

 

[PommyMommy]

AUG 23, 2019
Patrick Frazee appears in court for motions hearing
[...]

Frazee’s attorneys also have until Sept. 16 to notify prosecutors if they’ll put forth an alternative suspect as defense; their defense strategy must be provided to prosecution 35 days before trial.

[...]

They also had sought a list of potential jurors, along with their names, addresses and phone numbers so they could provide it to police for background checks.

A judge agreed with the defense’s objection of that request, saying both sides can get a list of potential jurors but any information beyond that raised concerns about juror privacy.

[...]

@Tippy Lynn, just wanted to confirm you have the Sept 16 date down.

 

[MassGuy]

Yes. That link with the courts previous rulings worries me now. Court precedent says that CPS questions may not be admitted?

@gitana1 what do you think about this?

The DHS worker interviewed him without his lawyer present and likely after he had invoked his Miranda.

He was told that he did not have to comply, but did anyway.

@GordianKnot linked a case that seems to provide precedent here, ruling that an interview with CPS (in the case cited) should have been ruled inadmissible.

 

[?mysterian?]

So, PF voluntarily agreed to talk to the DHS representative without a lawyer present. But among other things, he lied about talking to Kelsey on the weekend, and incriminated himself. Now his defense wants what he told her to be inadmissible.
Is that the gist of it?

Yes. Once again, he's shown us what a big moron he really is. IMO.

 

[?mysterian?]

AUG 23, 2019
Patrick Frazee appears in court for motions hearing
[...]

Frazee’s attorneys also have until Sept. 16 to notify prosecutors if they’ll put forth an alternative suspect as defense; their defense strategy must be provided to prosecution 35 days before trial.

[...]

They also had sought a list of potential jurors, along with their names, addresses and phone numbers so they could provide it to police for background checks.

A judge agreed with the defense’s objection of that request, saying both sides can get a list of potential jurors but any information beyond that raised concerns about juror privacy.

[...]

@Tippy Lynn, just wanted to confirm you have the Sept 16 date down.

Right, like the defense team isn't going to dig up everything they can on the potential jurors. Pffft.

 

[PommyMommy]

AUG 23, 2019
Patrick Frazee appears in Teller County court for motions hearing
[...]

DHS worker, Mary Longmire, testified on Friday. She said she spoke with numerous members of the Frazee and Berreth family while the DHS determined who would have custody of Frazee’s daughter while he was going through the legal process.

During her testimony, KRDO reports Longmire said she and Frazee discussed his daughter’s daily life and social background, as well as his custody agreement with Berreth. Longmire said Frazee appeared to be a “caring father,” according to KRDO’s reporting.

The judge said he would make a ruling about whether or not to allow the prosecution to use this conversation as evidence on Friday.

[...]

The District Attorney’s Office and public defenders are also asking the judge to rule on allowing alternate suspects in the case. This decision should come by around Sept. 20, with a hearing on Sept.16 for both sides to present their arguments.

[...]

 

[MassGuy]

AUG 23, 2019
Patrick Frazee appears in Teller County court for motions hearing
[...]

DHS worker, Mary Longmire, testified on Friday. She said she spoke with numerous members of the Frazee and Berreth family while the DHS determined who would have custody of Frazee’s daughter while he was going through the legal process.

During her testimony, KRDO reports Longmire said she and Frazee discussed his daughter’s daily life and social background, as well as his custody agreement with Berreth. Longmire said Frazee appeared to be a “caring father,” according to KRDO’s reporting.

The judge said he would make a ruling about whether or not to allow the prosecution to use this conversation as evidence on Friday.

[...]

The District Attorney’s Office and public defenders are also asking the judge to rule on allowing alternate suspects in the case. This decision should come by around Sept. 20, with a hearing on Sept.16 for both sides to present their arguments.

[...]

Ha! Could you imagine if the judge didn’t allow PF to point the finger at KK?!

He’d be totally “Frazeed.”

Well, I’d argue that he is either way.

 

[GordianKnot]

@gitana1 what do you think about this?

The DHS worker interviewed him without his lawyer present and likely after he had invoked his Miranda.

He was told that he did not have to comply, but did anyway.

@GordianKnot linked a case that seems to provide precedent here, ruling that an interview with CPS (in the case cited) should have been ruled inadmissible.

Hey, but here's a more recent update to that case I cited in a previous post.
@gitana1, please disregard @MassGuy's previous tag.

The Supreme Count of Ohio reversed the appellate court's earlier decision on that case:

FindLaw's Supreme Court of Ohio case and opinions.

SABBM:
{¶ 30} A social worker's statutory duty to cooperate and share information with law enforcement with respect to a child abuse investigation does not render the social worker an agent of law enforcement for purposes of the Fifth and Sixth Amendments to the United States Constitution when the social worker interviews an alleged perpetrator unless other evidence demonstrates that the social worker acted at the direction or under the control of law enforcement. In this case, no evidence indicates that Mack acted at the direction or under the control of law enforcement when she interviewed Jackson.

{¶ 31} Accordingly, we reverse the judgment of the appellate court, and we remand this case to that court to consider the assignments of error it did not address.
_____________________

So now, I'm feeling more hopeful that the judge is going to rule in the DA's favor on this one.
It would be great to Score 1 for the Good Guys here.

JMO.

 

[girlhasnoname]

Yes, I can picture him spouting and muttering to himself and being overheard.
It could also be something Kelsey said - at least that's how I am interpreting the Twitter wording.
I feel like it might be something she confided with her mother, about PF trying to harm her, or him trying to take the baby.

Ashley Franco on Twitter
Prosecution says there's evidence pertaining to the background of #PatrickFrazee and #KelseyBerreth and #KrystalLee. Prosecution says they believe they may introduce hearsay of Kelsey Berreth further down the line. @KKTV11News
10:20 AM - 23 Aug 2019

Sam Kraemer on Twitter
State says they could see some residual hearsay evidence of Kelsey Berreth during the trial. This is in response to the defense motion for advance notice. Judge asks if 35 days is enough. Stiegerwald says yes unless it’s extraordinary. @KOAA #KelseyBerreth #PatrickFrazee
10:20 AM - 23 Aug 2019

Sam Kraemer on Twitter
Sells says rarely does he grant an order to both parties to release all res gestae evidence. Reed says she could see questioning Krystal Kenney at trial about her relationship with Frazee. @KOAA #KelseyBerreth #PatrickFrazee

Yes, I like your idea better Steels

 

[MassGuy]

Hey, but here's a more recent update to that case I cited in a previous post.

The Supreme Count of Ohio reversed the appellate court's earlier decision on that case:

FindLaw's Supreme Court of Ohio case and opinions.

SABBM:
{¶ 30} A social worker's statutory duty to cooperate and share information with law enforcement with respect to a child abuse investigation does not render the social worker an agent of law enforcement for purposes of the Fifth and Sixth Amendments to the United States Constitution when the social worker interviews an alleged perpetrator unless other evidence demonstrates that the social worker acted at the direction or under the control of law enforcement. In this case, no evidence indicates that Mack acted at the direction or under the control of law enforcement when she interviewed Jackson.

{¶ 31} Accordingly, we reverse the judgment of the appellate court, and we remand this case to that court to consider the assignments of error it did not address.
_____________________

So now, I'm feeling more hopeful that the judge is going to rule in the DA's favor on this one.
It would be great to Score 1 for the Good Guys here.

JMO.

Good. So unless law enforcement requested that she ask certain questions, or guided her in some way, then it looks like there’s no problem with this being allowed.

 

[GordianKnot]

Good. So unless law enforcement requested that she ask certain questions, or guided her in some way, then it looks like there’s no problem with this being allowed.

I agree.

PF's statements to the DHS worker are coming in at trial.

The fact that neither you nor I are judges with the authority to make such a ruling, notwithstanding.

JMO.

 

[PommyMommy]

AUG 23, 2019
Patrick Frazee wants statements to social worker suppressed in murder case
A Teller County judge said he will decide by next week whether to bar statements Patrick Frazee made to a social worker that Kelsey Berreth was abusive to their 1-year-old daughter.

Judge Scott Sells said he will make his decision by Aug. 30 on whether to suppress the evidence after listening to testimony Friday from the social worker during a hearing in Cripple Creek, according to a report by Denver7.

[...]

Longmire testified during the Friday hearing that Frazee signed a release of information document provided by Woodland Park police before she spoke to him five days after he was arrested, Denver7 reported. At the time, she wasn’t aware of the allegations against Frazee, the TV station reported from the courtroom.

[...]

Longmire spoke to Frazee about the custody of Kaylee, the one-year-old daughter of Berreth and Frazee.

Kenney told investigators that Frazee had confided to her that Berreth was physically abusive toward their daughter, according to an arrest warrant affidavit. Kenney claimed Frazee told her that they needed to “get rid of” Berreth so she couldn’t injure or kill Kaylee, the affidavit said.

When asked Frazee about allegations of child abuse and burning, Longmire replied yes, Denver7 reported.

Sam Kraemer on Twitter
Stiegerwald asks if Longmire had specific information from law enforcement to ask about Thanksgiving. He asks if she knew about allegations of child abuse and burning. She says yes. @KOAA #KelseyBerreth#PatrickFrazee
10:03 AM - 23 Aug 2019

 

[katydid23]

Good. So unless law enforcement requested that she ask certain questions, or guided her in some way, then it looks like there’s no problem with this being allowed.

And the DA already asked her that precise question and she said NO.

 

[katydid23]

And here is what the CPS worker has going in her favour----she had legal responsibility for the 1 yr old child , through her agency.

It was her specific responsibility to decide between the Frazee family and the Berreth family, for future custody. So these questions she asked were vitally important questions concerning the future safety of the baby. They were not fanciful or random questions in any way.

She was doing her job, specifically for the well being of a young child, in need of a secure home.

The police didn't instruct her nor request she ask those questions. This was about the welfare of his young child. So those questions were relevant and necessary and appropriate, at that time and place.

Too bad for him that he was also facing murder charges.

 

[Love Never Fails]

AUG 23, 2019
Patrick Frazee wants statements to social worker suppressed in murder case
A Teller County judge said he will decide by next week whether to bar statements Patrick Frazee made to a social worker that Kelsey Berreth was abusive to their 1-year-old daughter.

Judge Scott Sells said he will make his decision by Aug. 30 on whether to suppress the evidence after listening to testimony Friday from the social worker during a hearing in Cripple Creek, according to a report by Denver7.

[...]

Longmire testified during the Friday hearing that Frazee signed a release of information document provided by Woodland Park police before she spoke to him five days after he was arrested, Denver7 reported. At the time, she wasn’t aware of the allegations against Frazee, the TV station reported from the courtroom.

[...]

Longmire spoke to Frazee about the custody of Kaylee, the one-year-old daughter of Berreth and Frazee.

Kenney told investigators that Frazee had confided to her that Berreth was physically abusive toward their daughter, according to an arrest warrant affidavit. Kenney claimed Frazee told her that they needed to “get rid of” Berreth so she couldn’t injure or kill Kaylee, the affidavit said.

When asked Frazee about allegations of child abuse and burning, Longmire replied yes, Denver7 reported.

Sam Kraemer on Twitter
Stiegerwald asks if Longmire had specific information from law enforcement to ask about Thanksgiving. He asks if she knew about allegations of child abuse and burning. She says yes. @KOAA #KelseyBerreth#PatrickFrazee
10:03 AM - 23 Aug 2019

PommyMommy,

When Longmire asked PF about allegations of child abuse and burning, was there some statement by PF that KB had burned little KF before? I don’t remember that.

 

[PommyMommy]

PommyMommy,

When Longmire asked PF about allegations of child abuse and burning, was there some statement by PF that KB had burned little KF before? I don’t remember that.

The supposed curling iron incident is what stands out to me. MOO

Sam Kraemer on Twitter
Slater: Krystal said Frazee would call her with questions about medicine for Kaylee, since she’s a nurse. Kenney says Frazee called Kelsey a terrible mother, physically abusive toward Kaylee. She said Frazee cited examples. @KOAA #KelseyBerreth #PatrickFrazee
1:50 PM - 19 Feb 2019

Sam Kraemer on Twitter
One example: Kaylee returned to Frazee’s custody with burns on the top & bottom of her hands. Kelsey said it was from grabbing a curling iron. Krystal said that wouldn’t make sense. Another example claimed Kelsey slammed Kaylee’s hand in
the fridge. @KOAA #KelseyBerreth
1:51 PM - 19 Feb 2019