CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #8

[LietKynes]

Maybe this is why the mother/family are being so weird and so persistent that no one talks bad about PF.....they know about his temper and he has the baby.

BBM

Re. the bolded bit : Scary.
What if LE start putting more pressure on PF , or they (LE) move closer to the truth ?
If PF is innocent, he could still be under an enormous amount of pressure and that's the worst time for him to have to deal with a baby.
What if she get's fussy ?

 

[ReadySet]

Off the fence for me.

Wow! This paints a picture of PF, and it ain’t pretty.

“She said: 'It's a characteristic that was ongoing for years. Anytime he was at a rope and his horse didn't act right, he'd rip on his face, kick him. In the community, we were all at ropings and stuff, but if the horse doesn't do exactly what it's supposed to do you don't just beat them.'

Recalling a rodeo in nearby town Cripple Creek several years ago, she described Frazee losing his cool with his horse.

She said: 'One time we were at a rodeo in Cripple Creek and he got mad because his horse didn't do good and somebody didn't heel just right to help him get in the money and he got so mad he left out of Cripple Creek Rodeo, flipped his horse trailer with his horse in it and almost killed that horse.”

 

[alliemarie]

I think its pretty obvious now what happened, the exact details will come out. The phone pings from Idaho will be his undoing. Someone either missed the baby while he was gone or watched the baby while he was gone. He couldn't have traveled that long without being noticed by his family. Whoever that was now knows Kelsey was already missing when that event happened; the the baby wasn't with her. That person is either going to corroborate an alibi or not.

I might have missed this as I haven't been able to read every single post, and nothing has been reported in the news about any sightings....but I assume that nobody has come forward to report that PF was seen at any gas stations or corner stores on any routes from CO to ID? Would anyone be able to drive that far without stopping, unless extra gas and food was brought? This is if the ping is accurate, I have read on here that they sometimes are not. I guess LE still has PF's truck?

 

[Writestuff]

Adding more to my timeline after reading the latest article where the Uncle was interviewed.
* KB moved to be closer to PF in 2016. (So if her daughter is 15 months - give or take a couple weeks - that means KB got pregnant in late 2016. When exactly did she move to CO? Was it because she was pregnant?)
*Where did KB live when she moved to CO in 2016? She moved in May 2018 when she purchased her townhouse. As mentioned here and verified on Teller County website she was the grantor in a deed of trust (parents are the Grantee as Flying 7 Land LLC - house was paid w/cash). Was PF okay with parent's involvement of assisting in purchasing of new home for KB?
*Pinterest pins shows a lot of relationship related quotes. Could the move that happened 6 months earlier have been the defining moment of PF & KB relationship?
*Why did PF choose to stay at his mother's house and not move in with KB & K?

edit: to change where KB lived when she first moved to CO

 

[Gardener1850]

Wow! This paints a picture of PF, and it ain’t pretty.

“She said: 'It's a characteristic that was ongoing for years. Anytime he was at a rope and his horse didn't act right, he'd rip on his face, kick him. In the community, we were all at ropings and stuff, but if the horse doesn't do exactly what it's supposed to do you don't just beat them.'

Recalling a rodeo in nearby town Cripple Creek several years ago, she described Frazee losing his cool with his horse.

She said: 'One time we were at a rodeo in Cripple Creek and he got mad because his horse didn't do good and somebody didn't heel just right to help him get in the money and he got so mad he left out of Cripple Creek Rodeo, flipped his horse trailer with his horse in it and almost killed that horse.”

If this is true about PF flipping his horse trailer we should be able to find a news article about the accident. JMO.

 

[alliemarie]

Welcome @alliemarie !

Thank you so much!

 

[fannneee]

Off the fence for me.

Me too. I was not putting as much importance on not him reporting her missing because I assumed that their relationship cooled at the time she purchased her home instead of waiting for him and marriage. But, no, the neighbor said she thought he lived there with her.

 

[esayer]

Wow! This paints a picture of PF, and it ain’t pretty.

“She said: 'It's a characteristic that was ongoing for years. Anytime he was at a rope and his horse didn't act right, he'd rip on his face, kick him. In the community, we were all at ropings and stuff, but if the horse doesn't do exactly what it's supposed to do you don't just beat them.'

Recalling a rodeo in nearby town Cripple Creek several years ago, she described Frazee losing his cool with his horse.

She said: 'One time we were at a rodeo in Cripple Creek and he got mad because his horse didn't do good and somebody didn't heel just right to help him get in the money and he got so mad he left out of Cripple Creek Rodeo, flipped his horse trailer with his horse in it and almost killed that horse.”

I grew up on a horse farm loving/riding horses and showing. A much different world than PF, but horses do not just 'submit'. They react! And they react violently to people who abuse them. Some submit more than others, I suppose, but every good horse person knows they respond way better to sugar and treats, loving encouragement and gentleness than violence. My super scary German trainer would smack us with a crop before he ever smacked a horse lol.

Anyway, if I ever saw someone treating horses (or dogs) this way, jerking them around, I would not respect that person. But...again, not the same world as his. I won't go to rodeos because I think they are cruel.

 

[MassGuy]

If this is true about PF flipping his horse trailer we should be able to find a news article about the accident. JMO.

It may have just been a minor thing. Not every accident makes the news.

 

[alucardsdream]

Off the fence for me.

ITA. I've tried to remain open-minded the entire time, because there was no evidence that KB was prone to wandering off and, as of this morning, there was no evidence that PF had any history of violence. This new article definitely paints a different picture. MOO.

 

[Lore Listener]

I think it very possible they broke up and that's what triggered an incident of domestic violence. JMO

That's statistically extremely probable. Especially given the history of violence and cruelty we are now officially hearing of via MSM.

"In fact, leaving an abuser is the most dangerous time for a victim of domestic violence. One study found in interviews with men who have killed their wives that either threats of separation by their partner or actual separations were most often the precipitating events that lead to the murder."

From the National Center on Domestic Violence: NCADV | National Coalition Against Domestic Violence

(Edited: typo)

 

[esayer]

This article scares me. I have a very bad feeling about what happened to Kelsey now. If neighbours and ex's are talking this way, it's not good.

Did you think a mom missing for a month without a trace would ever be 'good'?

 

[alliemarie]

Anyway, if I ever saw someone treating horses (or dogs) this way, jerking them around, I would not respect that person. But...again, not the same world as his. I won't go to rodeos because I think they are cruel.

I'm with you there. I believe it was Immanuel Kant who said, "He who is cruel to animals becomes hard also in his dealings with men. We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals."

 

[Deleted member 169742]

Is it typical to get so angry that you flip your horse trailer though?

If other people in the business thought that he was out of line with some of his behavior, then he probably was.

That’s how I see it.

Horse people are an interesting bunch

Some swear by a western saddle ... some won't use it even on a trail ride

Everybody has a feeding routine "that is the best"

Some sweet talk horses ... some break hard ... some yell ... some cuss ... some hit them

Stables and rodeo are always the scene for crazy events.

I guess, if it was not highly risky ... nobody would do it.

It is the nature of the operation.

Just think about steer roping

The equipment... is significant

Even the best have bad things happen.

I read nothing into the comments about PFs horse skills.

If he was crazy and abusive ... his operation would have failed years ago

 

[alucardsdream]

Did you think a mom missing for a month without a trace would ever be 'good'?

I thought the Sherri Papini case was going to have a terrible ending and it didn't, so it's still possible KB might be found alive. I think the chance of that is infinitesimally small, but miracles do happen. Definitely not holding my breath, though.

 

[Charlot123]

Oh, wow... you make Samosas too ??
Sorry... didn't want to derail....
I've got the best recipe from my mom -- mine aren't as good as hers.

The main part about KB's vanishing is that we don't know anything about the timeline of PF -- the last person to see her.

THAT is why I'm leaning towards her being taken and not leaving on her own.
Something went badly wrong; imo --- and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to think of the possibilities.

Some say LE didn't move quickly enough... and while I'm not letting LE off the hook entirely --- they may have been told a bogus or confusing story.

KB is a competent and independent adult, and if she wanted to escape a situation-- she'd know how to effectively leave.
Eta : I don't believe she left , at least not willingly.

Since LE say it's suspicious-- they must have unreleased information about KB and her relationships with others.

+1 Samosas lover here! Is there an Hangout for Sleuthers where one could post favorite recipes, etc?

 

[Jennifer17]

If this is true about PF flipping his horse trailer we should be able to find a news article about the accident. JMO.

I think that it was on the grounds where the rodeo was being held, not on the road.

 

[MassGuy]

Horse people are an interesting bunch

Some swear by a western saddle ... some won't use it even on a trail ride

Everybody has a feeding routine "that is the best"

Some sweet talk horses ... some break hard ... some yell ... some cuss ... some hit them

Stables and rodeo are always the scene for crazy events.

I guess, if it was not highly risky ... nobody would do it.

It is the nature of the operation.

Just think about steer roping

The equipment... is significant

Even the best have bad things happen.

I read nothing into the comments about PFs horse skills.

If he was crazy and abusive ... his operation would have failed years ago

Well, we do know that his behavior cost him atleast one potential client.

“But Michell Guterl, 50, who has known Frazee since he was 16, said she refused to let him work on his horses because of how he handled them.”

 

[mistivon]

Mollie's killer did not send texts to her work.

Which brings up a point...why text? If it happened on the 22nd, then by the 25th they had enough time. Why text? The plane school would have waited for a couple of days before they would get concerned, and the parents...they got concerned in December.

Why leave this trace?

Texting himself implied innocence (if it was him)

 

[susiQ]

I think after the crime took place PF wrote those texts without sending. Then he put phone on airplane mode & hid the phone on a vehicle traveling to WA. Someone found the phone & turned it on to find the owner. Texts then were inadvertently sent. Not knowing what to do with the phone they wait for someone to call it. News of her disappearance is now known and they’re pretty scared to be accused of a crime and that’s why they’re not telling anyone they found it. PF wasn’t sure what would happen when the person found the phone or what they would do. So Even if the texts weren’t sent it would show they were on the phone if by chance somebody turned it in. To le it may look like Kelsey wrote them and that’s all PF needs. A phone far away from him with texts that claim to be from KB

If he did the unspeakable, he knew her family would contact him at some point. I suspect either he or an accomplice (girl friend?) took that phone to Idaho, placed the texts and then dropped it into a lake. That way he could use the, "she said she was going to visit her grandmother," excuse. Personally, I think the text could possibly be his undoing.