CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #8

[alucardsdream]

Maybe I’m just a crazy animal lover and it’s true that I typically prefer animals to humans but in my mind there isn’t a huge stretch between cruelty to animals and cruelty to humans...

If anyone was ever cruel to my dog, I would show them just how cruel I can be to humans...

If everything in this article is true...heck, even if only half of it is true, I'm not at all optimistic about the outcome of this case. MOO.

 

[evpw]

Law enforcement

thank you!!

 

[katydid23]

I might have missed this as I haven't been able to read every single post, and nothing has been reported in the news about any sightings....but I assume that nobody has come forward to report that PF was seen at any gas stations or corner stores on any routes from CO to ID? Would anyone be able to drive that far without stopping, unless extra gas and food was brought? This is if the ping is accurate, I have read on here that they sometimes are not. I guess LE still has PF's truck?

I don't think anyone would have noticed. No one knew who he was or that his ex was missing at that time. He looks like your average cowboy. He could have gotten gas, stopped to eat, a dozen times, and no one would have taken note of it at all. Especially if he was trying to stay below the radar.

 

[susiQ]

If I were her I'd be suing for that right.

I would imagine she will, IF she's given the opportunity after they find Kelsey. To enrage someone who's prone to "losing it" would not be helpful at this point. They are treating him with "kid" gloves for a reason.

 

[gitana1]

Any route is possible! My gps, programmed for shortest driving time, produced Wyoming, Montana route - not Idaho. I didn't consider the longest driving time -- if traveling alone, plausible. And I also don't think KB ever left Colorado. MOO

At least not alive. Could be she was transported somewhere on the way to Gooding ID.

 

[alliemarie]

I don't think anyone would have noticed. No one knew who he was or that his ex was missing at that time. He looks like your average cowboy. He could have gotten gas, stopped to eat, a dozen times, and no one would have taken note of it at all. Especially if he was trying to stay below the radar.

Since nobody has come forward to report seeing him, I fear you are right.

 

[Marli61]

thank you!!

No problem!

 

[LVatty10]

That’s what I thought but wasn’t sure if they were required to disclose it by law or something. Thanks!!

Short answer: It depends on how Colorado courts have interpreted USSC ruling in Jones. Generally speaking, a warrant is required to place a GPS tracker on a vehicle. Disclosure of the tracker is one area that has been the subject of debate.

Long answer:
According to the Supreme Court in United States v. Jones, police use of a GPS device to track a suspect’s vehicle is considered a “search” under the Fourth Amendment. This means that the police must secure a search warrant before affixing a GPS device to a person’s car for the purpose of tracking them.

Once the police secure a valid search warrant, they can attach a GPS device on the outside of a car, typically underneath the body or underneath a bumper. The device will disclose the location of the vehicle. However, this ruling was split into three separate opinions, making the application of the rule difficult.

As a result, courts throughout the states have been applying the law differently, often reaching completely contrasting conclusions over the same issues. For example, arguments are being made that the Jones case requires courts to dismiss warrantless surveillance evidence obtained by other means, such as a video camera. These arguments hinge on the idea that the Fourth Amendment protects one’s reasonable expectation of privacy, and that the court has determined that this type of long-term tracking is an invasion of that privacy.

 

[allboys]

The DM is a British publication so maybe they do not have to consider US advice.
They recently published a suspects name from a NZ crime after the judge had issued an order for his name to be suppressed.

Right, I knew it was a British publication. That’s why I was wondering if the fact that we’re hearing from them first (in more detail) if it is suggestive that MSM here in the U.S., has been put under some kind of gag order/request. It sure seems so. If that’s the case, I’m pleased to see the media honoring the request. It would be nice to be able to know something positive about our media.

 

[Queasy Gumshoe]

With regards to the cell phone ping in Gooding, Idaho. Some facts/thoughts to remember/consider.

1. The ONLY person who seemed to be aware of KB's "plan" to visit her grandmother in Idaho was PF. This info is in direct contradiction to the info that KB gave her mother about her "plans" (Thanksgiving dinner out with PF, decorating for Christmas) the morning of her disappearance.

2. LE is not searching Gooding, Idaho, nor are they searching Soap Lake, WA.

3. LE obtained and executed a search warrant for the home and vehicle of PF in Colorado. They did this while imploring PF to please come in for an interview. They also specifically stated that they obtained the search warrant based on facts, though unknown to the public, they'd gathered and presented to judge who felt those facts compelling enough to issue the warrant.

4. Remember LE photographed PF as well took samples of his DNA. I speculate that they used the photographs in various gas stations/restaurants along the route between Florissant and Gooding in attempt to show that PF travelled that route himself.

5. Consider that LE is in possession of KB's cell phone records, and most likely her computer, including Email. LE at no point has cast a "wider net". Why is that?
If KB were intending to visit her grandma, there would be a call? An email? A text? A google map? Our devices talk to one another now, when I search something on my phone, suddenly, I get advertisements for whatever that happens to be on my computer, and suggestions for hotels in that area on my iPad.

In summary, I'm willing to wager that LE has threshed out the Gooding angle and found that it actually pointed back at the the person who pointed a finger in that direction in the first place. JMHO.

OOOhhh @Hopefullyhelpful - you got me thinking. IMO perhaps Gooding was a location because perhaps he has connections there. They have a TON of stables and mini ranches? And remember we know nothing from the LE so perhaps they have already spoken to the people he went their to do business with? JMO - well more like JM-THOUGHT. Am I crazy??

 

[susiQ]

I think they meant that this doesn’t bode well for PF’s defense. It doesn’t sound good for PF

Thanks for pointing that out. That is what I meant.

 

[gitana1]

With regards to the cell phone ping in Gooding, Idaho. Some facts/thoughts to remember/consider.

1. The ONLY person who seemed to be aware of KB's "plan" to visit her grandmother in Idaho was PF. This info is in direct contradiction to the info that KB gave her mother about her "plans" (Thanksgiving dinner out with PF, decorating for Christmas) the morning of her disappearance.

2. LE is not searching Gooding, Idaho, nor are they searching Soap Lake, WA.

3. LE obtained and executed a search warrant for the home and vehicle of PF in Colorado. They did this while imploring PF to please come in for an interview. They also specifically stated that they obtained the search warrant based on facts, though unknown to the public, they'd gathered and presented to judge who felt those facts compelling enough to issue the warrant.

4. Remember LE photographed PF as well took samples of his DNA. I speculate that they used the photographs in various gas stations/restaurants along the route between Florissant and Gooding in attempt to show that PF travelled that route himself.

5. Consider that LE is in possession of KB's cell phone records, and most likely her computer, including Email. LE at no point has cast a "wider net". Why is that?
If KB were intending to visit her grandma, there would be a call? An email? A text? A google map? Our devices talk to one another now, when I search something on my phone, suddenly, I get advertisements for whatever that happens to be on my computer, and suggestions for hotels in that area on my iPad.

In summary, I'm willing to wager that LE has threshed out the Gooding angle and found that it actually pointed back at the the person who pointed a finger in that direction in the first place. JMHO.

Strong points.

 

[WhimsicalWillow]

I wonder when there will be another press conference?

Do we know if KB attended a church in Colorado?

 

[JerseyWasHome2]

Even statements on "MSM" can be wrong, intentionally or not, as we've seen many times, so I'm confused here as to why the input about his supposed cheating is being considered golden.

First, I didn't think the UK Daily Mail was considered a legit source of info. Thought it was analagous to our NY Post. Please let me know if that is now a legit news source! I thought it was a tabloid. Most sites as the result of a Google search say it's a tabloid.

Second, here's the quote from it regarding his supposed cheating: "A former girlfriend who dated Frazee more than six years ago declined to speak to DailyMail.com but her current partner said: 'He cheated on her while she was in the hospital, take that for what it's worth.'" So a current partner of a supposed ex girlfriend is telling a UK paper PF cheated on his current girlfriend at the time. Do we know more details? Maybe she made this up. Maybe they had broken up or were about to. I could think of 10 other scenarios. Just making a comment here that people are jumping on this that he must be evil between this and the horse abuse, and NO I am not "in his camp" whatsoever, but let's take a step back. Anyone can say anything to any news source or friend or social media account...

 

[Irmese]

Horse people are an interesting bunch

Some swear by a western saddle ... some won't use it even on a trail ride

Everybody has a feeding routine "that is the best"

Some sweet talk horses ... some break hard ... some yell ... some cuss ... some hit them

Stables and rodeo are always the scene for crazy events.

I guess, if it was not highly risky ... nobody would do it.

It is the nature of the operation.

Just think about steer roping

The equipment... is significant

Even the best have bad things happen.

I read nothing into the comments about PFs horse skills.

If he was crazy and abusive ... his operation would have failed years ago

Did you read anything into KB's neighbor saying she thought PF lived with KB? Apparently, even if they didn't go to the local bar together, neighbors did know they were in a relationship.

 

[Steelhead]

But why do you want to believe something that by all accounts did not happen. PF told LE he last saw KR on 11/22 Thanksgiving. He could have just as easily said he spent the night and last saw her 11/23, 24, 25 or whenever. MOO

I don't "want to believe it," I'm just theorizing. Yes, he could have just as easily said whatever the heck he wanted. Maybe he's trying to distance himself from the situation. If he said he stayed the night and went Xmas tree hunting the next day, that would have led to more suspicion and questions from LE that maybe he doesn't want. I don't know. I'm just theorizing out loud. Maybe I should just keep it to myself.

 

[Steelhead]

Why would he risk lying about when he last saw her? For all he knows, a neighbor may have seen him picking up KB and baby. JMO

So he doesn't get caught, possibly?

 

[Deleted member 169742]

Checking on the Box score, at the end of the day

(1) we still do not have a crime scene
(2) we do not have a crime
(3) we do not have a body
(4) or a murder weapon
(5) the motive is a bit fuzzy
(6) there is no timeline
(7) quite a few facts are in dispute
(8) there are more theories than facts
(9) we do have a strikingly attractive mom that is missing
(10) LE has run out of potential crime scenes to search
(11) we have some photos

And we know who did it!

Did we make any progress on the 1st 6 today?

 

[Deleted member 155000]

Wow. That article. I guess the people have spoken up now, ay?

I have to admit, I am still committed to staying open to possibilities, but this characterization increases the likelihood PF is involved in my mind.

Allegedly used excessive or unneeded force with animals?
Allegedly flipped a horse trailer in rage?
Allegedly cheated on a girlfriend?

I don't know how severe these observed animal abuses were in reality, but in the field of psychology (I'm in a doctoral program), there is a link between animal cruelty and several mental illnesses. It is concerning to me as it can escalate into violence against humans.

"In homes where serious animal abuse has occurred, there is an increased probability that some other type of family violence is also happening. According to one study, women in domestic violence shelters are 11 times more likely to report that their partner hurt or killed a pet, as compared with women who have not suffered domestic abuse. In another study, 89% of women who had companion animals during an abusive relationship reported their animals were threatened, harmed, or killed by their abuser. Abuse of a companion animal is one of the four most significant risk factors for someone becoming a domestic abuser, and is an indicator of the use of controlling and violent behaviors."

https://aldf.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/The-Link-2018.pdf

 

[girlhasnoname]

I don't think anyone would have noticed. No one knew who he was or that his ex was missing at that time. He looks like your average cowboy. He could have gotten gas, stopped to eat, a dozen times, and no one would have taken note of it at all. Especially if he was trying to stay below the radar.

I just hope that shiny, bright red truck was noticed, but I wouldn't be surprised if he borrowed a 'friends' vehicle. The truck could even come back clean.