CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #9

[Curiousobserver]

I don’t think the facts as you stated them are inconsistent with her leaving on her own. But you have to keep in mind the option you didn’t touch on, which is Kelsey leaving on her own but under false pretenses.

Kelsey’s house did not have a garage. And we know that the neighbors tended to be watchful. Nobody incapacitated Kelsey inside her house and then dragged her unconscious or dead body out to their vehicle in broad daylight, I don’t believe.

What makes the most sense to me is that someone invited Kelsey to go with them in their vehicle. Most likely they already had bad intent. She brought along her purse and cell phone out of habit, and because the other party was operating under false pretenses, they couldn’t stop her from doing so. And if I’m right about that, then police should eventually have data, if they don’t have it all ready, showing the phone leaving Kelsey‘s house and pinging of a series of cell towers sometime after the Safeway trip. And if PF is responsible for her disappearance, then he’s got to be concerned. Because there will be the telltale digital fingerprints of his phone and her phone pinging off the same cell towers at the same times. And this would run counter to his story that He picked up the baby and left.

I think you're on the right track here. There are lots of places where he would have had to execute this perfectly. I think we are going to hear something soon.

 

[Queasy Gumshoe]

CB wouldn't have known that Doss Aviation had gotten a text from KB's phone. I wonder if she called Doss or any of KB's coworkers at some point after talking to PF. I don't think she would have known any of KB's coworkers, but just thinking about who I would call in the same situation. I would probably check their SM pages for friends and work from there but I would definitely call their employer, especially if her SO said she had broken up with him then disappeared.

My mother would call my place of employment if she hasn't heard back from me in three days, that is prolly what set her off IMO. I envision -"Wait what? she said she will be gone? She never told me, ok thanks" Calling PF, Hey where's my girl... on trip to see my mom? weird, ok Thanks" Calling Granny/mother "Hey mom, is my girl there? No? she was heading your way, ok thanks" calling LE "I haven't heard from my daughter, her work said she was taking time off, her BF said she was heading to Washington, but my mother hasn't seen her" the rest is what we want to know but LE is playing it safe . . .

 

[Esma]

Maybe she baked the cinnamon rolls and had them cooling on the counter when she went to Safeway and when she got back PF was already there and had eaten some of them and she was pissed because they were to take to the holiday dinner. Could have been the catalyst to a much larger fight. Maybe she was already mad at him because he wasn’t helping and she had to shop, cook, get ready and take care of the baby and that’s why he came to pick the baby up. And she came home from the store to find he’d eaten some of the cinnamon rolls and she blew up.

 

[Gardener1850]

Playing devil’s advocate what if $25,000 donation came from PF. Would that change the opinion of those that are 100% sure he’s guilty?

And if you feel he’s guilty and if he’s the 25k donor that makes you feel he’s more guilty....then PF is absolutely correct to not speak to LE or the media. MOO If innocent PFs life is already ruined.

Also having followed this case since the beginning, only verified information I have seen is texts were from KBs phone to her job and PF on 11/25. Mom called PF on 12/2 and shortly after called police and teported KB missing. JMO (but based on MSM and police timelines to arrive at my opinion)

If PF was involved he got a HUGE assist from KBs family and friends that no one noticed (enough) from 11/23 to 12/1 that they hadn’t heard from her/she wasn’t responding to calls and texts. I blame her family and friends for not reporting her missing more than PF (assuming they were not an active couple and her 11/25 text said something along the lines of ‘don’t call me I’ll call you’) Even the information from the aunt (that could be based on CB convo with PF on 12/2) was that PF said KB went to visit family, if any KB relatives heard that info before 12/2, then it’s even more baffling they didn’t report her missing until 12/2.

What reason would PF have to offer a $25,000 reward and want to stay anonymous? It could only bring him positive reviews in the eyes of the public if he offered a reward for her return. It would at least show he cared about finding his daughter's mom. It doesn't make any sense that he would offer an anonymous reward. Besides which, he does not seem to be financially stable enough to offer such a reward-- where would he get the money? He doesn't own a home nor property that he can take out a loan on. He doesn't work for a large corporation that would be paying into a retirement account from his earnings. He has records of taking on large debts in recent years and poor credit score which our sleuths here discovered. And the price of cattle lately has been a concern for him that delayed PF and KB finding their own home and marrying.

If PF has $25,000 of liquid assets in the bank for a reward AND the money to hire one of the top criminal defense attorneys in Colorado, then he could have pooled his money with Kesley's back in May and put a nice down payment on a home or a property where they could build their own home. However, that didn't happen. Kelesy bought her own home instead and PF was not on the mortgage nor deed. I doubt very much PF wants to offer a reward or even has the funds to do so.

MOO.

 

[kath4557]

It makes me sad that so many are questioning CB's slow response to reporting her daughter missing. She's going through hell right now.... and we don't know the whole story, as in what she was told by PF to put her mind to ease. At least for a few days.

 

[CDB]

I'm not sure she only had two parking spaces. Satellite images make it look like she could fit 4 cars there. She had more parking space than her neighbor she shared a wall with anyway:
View attachment 160449
Google Maps

Do these actually share a common wall? It looks to me like these are separate buildings with common land maintained by the HOA. I understood town houses to be this way, and Condominiums to be shared walls, but then I have not purchased or looked for either.

Though I park my truck behind my families cars all the time. I run in thinking I will be a few minutes and I get involved in other business and it is left behind them for extended times. I can not tell you how often they come looking for my keys to move my truck, it is actually the family joke......

 

[Lhughessk]

Playing devil’s advocate what if $25,000 donation came from PF. Would that change the opinion of those that are 100% sure he’s guilty?

And if you feel he’s guilty and if he’s the 25k donor that makes you feel he’s more guilty....then PF is absolutely correct to not speak to LE or the media. MOO If innocent PFs life is already ruined.

Also having followed this case since the beginning, only verified information I have seen is texts were from KBs phone to her job and PF on 11/25. Mom called PF on 12/2 and shortly after called police and teported KB missing. JMO (but based on MSM and police timelines to arrive at my opinion)

If PF was involved he got a HUGE assist from KBs family and friends that no one noticed (enough) from 11/23 to 12/1 that they hadn’t heard from her/she wasn’t responding to calls and texts. I blame her family and friends for not reporting her missing more than PF (assuming they were not an active couple and her 11/25 text said something along the lines of ‘don’t call me I’ll call you’) Even the information from the aunt (that could be based on CB convo with PF on 12/2) was that PF said KB went to visit family, if any KB relatives heard that info before 12/2, then it’s even more baffling they didn’t report her missing until 12/2.

From what I’ve seen on case rewards, it’s almost never the significant other who puts up the reward. Rewards often come from businesses, such as the missing person’s employer.

Remember, the donor is anonymous to the public but not anonymous to the police, IMHO. In order for them to publicize the reward, they are going to vet the offer and verify that it’s legit. And I don’t think PF has the money, it doesn’t sound like. Police would strongly discourage him from being the donor even if he did offer, IMHO. Needs to be a third party that is somewhat removed from the situation .

 

[1mtroyal]

My pre-event theory so far is that PF wasn’t there when she went to the store with the baby. I think she came home and he picked up the baby so she could cook and get ready for a Thanksgiving dinner ‘out’, meaning at someone’s house- a relative of his? Why would you need a recipe and shop if you were going to a restaurant. At this point either PF is involved or PF left with the baby and someone else is involved. The content of the texts on the 25th are the important missing pieces. And what does PF have to say about the 22nd to the 25th before texts were sent/received. If everything was fine between them, and she didn’t show up for their dinner ‘out’ and he couldn’t reach her for the next few days, why did he not notify anyone before the 25th? That’s a glaring problem. Not notifying anyone she was missing the 22nd-25th is hard to explain away in the context of a stranger abduction. So he claims they broke up? Interesting. It’s not looking good for PF. Could they have gotten into a fight when he went to pick up the baby and he killed her at her house? Maybe he went back that night to move her body to not be seen in daylight. If he drove to Idaho, his mother would know whether he was gone or not from his home for a period of time.

I have been wondering that too, on the FBI raid, PF and the child were removed. Where was the mom? Sounds to me as if she was not there.

 

[NanZDrew]

Hi All,

I'm new here but I've been following the case closely since I live in the Woodland Park/Florissant area.

Here's a scenario that I can't seem to shake and wanted to see what you all thought. What if PF pick up the baby on Thanksgiving day like it was said, but shortly after he and baby left her house, someone else (maybe someone she recognized as a friend of his) knocked on her door and said they had been in a car accident and offered her a ride to the hospital. That would explain why she would leave with only her purse, her cars were in the driveway, and in her haste to leave, the cinnamon rolls were left out. That person could have then taken her phone to Idaho and sent the text messages. PF wouldn't be worried about LE finding anything on him since his only involvement was coming up with the plan, hence the reason for his behavior. It's the only thing I can come up with where all the pieces fit.

MOO

I think it is possible she went somewhere else with somebody else, possibly someone grabbed her as she was going to her car. Possible but not probable based on the few facts that we know.

 

[darring21]

Do these actually share a common wall? It looks to me like these are separate buildings with common land maintained by the HOA. I understood town houses to be this way, and Condominiums to be shared walls, but then I have not purchased or looked for either.

Though I park my truck behind my families cars all the time. I run in thinking I will be a few minutes and I get involved in other business and it is left behind them for extended times. I can not tell you how often they come looking for my keys to move my truck, it is actually the family joke......

Yes, it is a duplex.

 

[tictoc]

I hoped it was not the case. But I do have a feeling that in this case, someone else might be involved. It turns the situation into something much worse, and much more scary.

I agree with you Charlot123, and IMO it's why PF is able to come across as "innocent": Someone else involved, connected to him, while his hands are clean.

Also, along the lines of a previous poster, "Did she lock her door after taking her purse and keys?", I wonder if there was evidence at her home that she'd showered? Fixed herself up after the run to Safeway? Getting ready to go out?

 

[gitana1]

This post lands at random. I have sat silent while many posters have consistently bashed PF for still living with his mother. Now while I would never defend his alleged animal care behavior, his living with his mother, especially if she is in need of help should not be used to criticize him. My brother lived with our mom to help her until he died unexpectedly. He was single with no children and frankly was the only place available for years. He was a wonderful man and animal lover I might add. I just would like to share that it’s not always Norman Bates types that stay at home with their mothers. I find these comments very hurtful.

Of course not. And there are many people who move back home out of economic necessity too, who shouldn't be blamed for that.

I think the criticism is tailored to him in particular. A seemingly angry, abusive man who failed to move in with his fiancé "because he lived with his mother". Yet not one thing has been reported states he provides care for her (although there has been something about her being disabled?) and he doesn't seem to be the type at all.

There are possible patterns when it comes to angry, murderous men and their relationships with parents. But that doesn't mean all people who live with or even depend at time on parents, as adults, are losers or dysfunctional. Not at all.

Many of us suspect him and don't have a high opinion of him so his lifestyle is being viewed negatively.

 

[PrairieWind]

I have been wondering that too, on the FBI raid, PF and the child were removed. Where was the mom? Sounds to me as if she was not there.

Probably visiting friends in Idaho. Just kidding! LOL

 

[Charlot123]

All this debate about whether they were or were not a couple. IMO, a lot points to them NOT being a couple. Not spending Thanksgiving together, not knowing who is shopping for the Christmas tree, absence of social media photos together, blah blah blah. And then add to all of this, the aunts former post which states they DID break up. I can't see any justification for her to make that up. But I do see a justification for Kelseys mother to be less than truthful in her claim that they were a happy couple. She might worry about what people think, and she must worry about her grandchild.

NOW I HAVE TO CONTRADICT WHAT I WROTE ABOVE,

If the text sent from the Kelsey's phone to the boyfriend stated, "Im sorry, Im no longer interested in being involved, I am headed to blah, blah, blah,...I need some time to myself...." Well that could be the source of some family members stating they had gone different directions. I was wrong to think it was Kelsey who made that claim to her family! Actually this new scenario makes more sense to me.

The way I see it, if Kelsey moved into PF's house, living there would have meant, also contributing into working at that farm. And she wanted to further her career, her dream job. Good for her! (So if they were in a big city, PF would have been the person taking a "paternity leave"). But she was also the mother, so she moved in as close to his farm as possible, making long commutes to Pueblo. A lot fell on her during that year.

Does it fit with the posts I come across accidentally, in other places, that taking off was typical for her? Not at all. Does it bode well with that tweet stating that she had issues with substances? No, because, sorry, she was pregnant, no drinking, then, possibly, breastfeeding (not sure - interested to know), and then was commuting and working. And she was employed.

Taking time off work for long times,as that author says, does not fit in, either way.

So I would like to know who, and why, wrote that tweet, showing PF as a guy who has been through a lot and the stable one, and her, as the person with issues. I don't see her a person with issues, I see her as a chronically tired young woman, trying to be a good mom, and commuting to work, and advancing her career, and staying close to PF's farm, for the sake of raising her child with both parents.

Many women these days are working and raising small kids. It is easier in bigger cities and also is viewed there as the norm. Not sure about the farms. I think Kelsey was really trying her hardest to grow professionally, and be a mom, and it was very hard, but I trust her mom when she says taking off spontaneously was not typical for her.

Either something very bad happened, and she planned to take off, or someone cut it all short.

 

[gitana1]

<modsnip: quoted post was removed>

Of course working dogs are different than pets. But he's the type, IMO, to shoot a dog once it's too old to work.

 

[Gardener1850]

Do these actually share a common wall? It looks to me like these are separate buildings with common land maintained by the HOA. I understood town houses to be this way, and Condominiums to be shared walls, but then I have not purchased or looked for either.

Though I park my truck behind my families cars all the time. I run in thinking I will be a few minutes and I get involved in other business and it is left behind them for extended times. I can not tell you how often they come looking for my keys to move my truck, it is actually the family joke......

They are duplexes. Two addresses per unit. The Google streetview shows the back of the house with an address on each side. Kelsey's address is 269 and she is in the same building as 271: Google Maps

 

[Wsimm]

Oh my, you should meet my nosy neighbor. She knows the who, what, when, where, why and how of anything going on in our sub any time of day. You don't even have to ask, she'll insist on telling you as soon as she corners you LOL

THIS....LOL. We have one of those too. We’ve affectionately named her Harriet Oleson in our home. She can be a real thorn in my side at times, but I’ll tell you what she’d be my savior if I suddenly went missing.

 

[Sabrina1011]

It makes me sad that so many are questioning CB's slow response to reporting her daughter missing. She's going through hell right now.... and we don't know the whole story, as in what she was told by PF to put her mind to ease. At least for a few days.

I believe I saw in the Daily Mail article a few days ago the cousin, Jodi, said the reason she was reported missing so far after the date will become clear when we know the whole story.

 

[Colorado303]

Snipped for focus.

Do we know the texts were sent after the contact from Kelsey’s mom to PF?

If they were, wouldn’t that rule out him being in Gooding, Idaho? Otherwise his phone would’ve pinged there as well.

I’ve seen speculation that he left his phone at home so he could use her phone to text himself along with her employer, but if he had a phone call with KB’s mom that day, that wouldn’t work. He’d have to have the phone on him.

Now, perhaps his phone did ping in the same place or hundreds of miles from his home, and that’s why police were able to get a search warrant for the farm.

Hmm. Does anyone know if forwarded call information is retained in phone records? Could LE tell if he left his phone home and had his calls forwarded to Kelsey’s phone while he drove to it Idaho? And if right before calling her Mom he changed his call forwarding settings to forward any calls his phone received to her Mom’s number?

If that were done, then KF could call his own number and the call would automatically forward to Mom’s phone. I know my caller ID only shows the transferring phone’s information so it would look like he was calling from his own phone . Which would be unattended and pinging in CO the whole time.

I don’t think that’s what happened, but if it had would there be any way to tell?

 

[gitana1]

I don’t think the facts as you stated them are inconsistent with her leaving on her own. But you have to keep in mind the option you didn’t touch on, which is Kelsey leaving on her own but under false pretenses.

Kelsey’s house did not have a garage. And we know that the neighbors tended to be watchful. Nobody incapacitated Kelsey inside her house and then dragged her unconscious or dead body out to their vehicle in broad daylight, I don’t believe.

What makes the most sense to me is that someone invited Kelsey to go with them in their vehicle. Most likely they already had bad intent. She brought along her purse and cell phone out of habit, and because the other party was operating under false pretenses, they couldn’t stop her from doing so. And if I’m right about that, then police should eventually have data, if they don’t have it all ready, showing the phone leaving Kelsey‘s house and pinging of a series of cell towers sometime after the Safeway trip. And if PF is responsible for her disappearance, then he’s got to be concerned. Because there will be the telltale digital fingerprints of his phone and her phone pinging off the same cell towers at the same times. And this would run counter to his story that He picked up the baby and left.

Oh I'm sure this cat turned his phone off when he did whatever he did.